(Sociology) Rocket: DayZ is Fundamentally Flawed, and I Agree - Here is Why.

[kroms001 99]

I think I believe I know what Rocket (Dean Hall) meant when he sported the comment about the game being fundamentally flawed.  Humans are creatures that survive in groups, we strive for companionship.  Without it, we would be extinct.  DayZ is reflecting the exact opposite of what would happen in such a dire circumstance.

If a child is born and is only given food, but no affection and no attention - that child will die; it is a proven fact.  Children need nurturing, and as we grow older - we need companionship and friends.  As we pushed ourselves out of the forests and caves our ancestors survived in groups, and tribes.  We as a species figured out how to cultivate crops and cities formed.  All throughout human history we can see the example of humans surviving together, not apart. 

 

Sure, countries war but that isn't in large part of the people living within those warring countries but a select few "leaders" who choose that course for their people.  Humanity, if faced with such an extinction level event would band together, horde resources and fight back against impending doom like we have never seen before.  Sure, you would have your panicking masses and psychopathic deranged killers on the loose, but over all - the majority of the surviving people would reflect on what we have all done in the past: join together to fight against all odds.

What Rocket has seen in the Mod, and in the Stand Alone versions of this game isn't humanity; but inhumanity.  It reflects nothing about humanity, but the greed we suffer from today.  In a post apocalyptic setting, the prize would be keeping humanity alive and finding a cure.  Not shooting and killing anything you see that isn't "you" on site.  Why? Because being alive would be a prize, and it would be respected amongst other survivors.

 

Yes, it would happen - people would loot the hell out of everything; but it would be a hunter gatherer mentality and tribalism would be the norm.  Yes, there would be "lone" survivors and even camps of bandits, warlords, stone cold killers; but 90% of the time there wouldn't be KoS unless absolutely needed.  Remember; these are the last of the humans on the planet, zombies are eating people's faces - the only thing left is each other.

I have noticed that most of the people who are my age (35-40) play as humanitarians.  My question; why is the younger gaming generation so fixated on killing everything in sight?  Sure, us experienced gamers that are older could do the same thing and wipe the map with people, camp out and kill new spawns - but I have found many of us don't.  We actually are there to help people.

 

So yes, this game is fundamentally flawed, as it goes against everything most humans would do: Help each other to survive.

[mosibfu 71]

Sure, us experienced gamers that are older could do the same thing and wipe the map with people, camp out and kill new spawns - but I have found many of us don't.  We actually are there to help people.

 

So yes, this game is fundamentally flawed, as it goes against everything most humans would do: Help each other to survive.

 

for starters, Pro gamers over age 21 are rare, your reaction speed gets worse... So, good luck wiping the map.

On the other hand, I have crossed the map multiple times to help people out, people i had never met in game before. and im not old!

Edited March 4, 2014 by mosibfu

[oregonized 673]

Oh look, it's another one of these threads...

[Guest]

[Window Licker 504]

Thought there was this exact thread yesterday did the mod's wipe it? /sarcasm or OP can't find the search?/serious

[Knock (DayZ) 111]

Not all kids in the younger generation want to just wipe the map of all other players. I'm a teenager and I've done some pretty good things in DayZ, but I've also defended myself when I need to. Although I'm assuming you weren't trying to group people completely, since there are bound to be people who go against the norm... but I just wanted to put it out there that I'm not playing out of pure bloodlust all the time.

 

I have had the urge to kill people in this game and sharpen my skills for when I need it though. So sometimes I do want to fight, but only against other armed people that would probably kill me given the chance.

 

Your question is why do people kill? I think part of it is from the lack of things to do in the game. Once surviving is top notch, I think DayZ will be different. Especially once the building aspect comes into play.

[weparo 613]

So yes, this game is fundamentally flawed, as it goes against everything most good humans would do: Help each other to survive.

 

Yes, but as you have stated, todays society is extremly egoistic. Trust me, DayZ is authentic.

[Nesuma (DayZ) 108]

Advantages of staying alive and grouping in:
 

Real Life:                                             Dayz:
-You survive                                        -You keep your stuff

-save Humanity                                   -Respawn
-social Contacts                                  -Mates can respawn
-keep or regain your life befor            -Turn off PC
 shit happened (after a long time)
 

I understand your point but please if something gets changed ever give it an extra mode/ another game so we can keep our beautiful PvP Game, in an apocalyptic scenario.
I respect you for actually role-playing DayZ and act like you would act in a real situation but some people just want to have good action.

Oh and jeah you can't win against the computer in DayZ, sure you can survive but it doesn't matter because it's just a game. Win against another player is much more fun.
I guess you have to play a co-op game to actually "simulate" a post apocalyptic world, it can't and won't happen in a game like DayZ. Why should you "win" against the zombies by killing them all? Start to repopulate? Build a farm and plant your food? :D

Edited March 4, 2014 by Nesuma

[TheLastEmp 295]

Fundamentally flawed = Built on an engine with too many limitations. 

 

They're going to stuff as much in to the game as they possibly can but Dean is already recognizing that he's having to make sacrifices.  He's having to limit his vision to continue to build the game.  

 

Or maybe you're right... maybe he was talking about the "concept" of what the game is at the moment.  I don't think that's the case.  I think he still plans to add mechanics that will balance out the advantages of not shooting on sight.

Edited March 4, 2014 by TheLastEmp

[Duenan 226]

This will change with the next patch. If you want something interesting play on experimental. Part of the KOS'ing is because the zombies on regular server are no threat.

 

This is not the case on the experimental servers.

 

Gameplay will change when features and other things get added

 

but there will always be some level of KOS

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

This thread, although it uses a similar title is more about the sociological aspect of the game rather than the usual rant.

 

It can stay here.

 

I may alter title to reflect this.

 

Rdgs

 

LoK

[OrLoK 16185]

snip

title edited for clarity.

[Hetstaine 10852]

 You state - Here is why the (game is flawed)..but then talk about your views on the player base.

 

 I don't think that is what Rocket meant :)

[wild_man 4442]

sociology???? with no society???? :huh:

 

after apocalypse happen society STOP TO FUNCTION in normal way :D

 

there will be many killer running around

 

murder killer and rapist who escape from prisons ;)

 

guys who want to do murder before but was full of fear from the justice system now they fill boots AND KILL no limit :o

 

man is predator who learn to tame himself and train himself but need civilization around for this to continue

 

after civilize world disappear we will see true face of no hair monkey mans with guns and nobody to control

 

guys who don't have limit on action by moral code etc WILL RISE TO TOP

 

nice guys who try to do in correct way will manage to create maybe small pocket of normality but eventual is happen PSYCHOPATH WILL TAKE CONTROL OF GROUP (because is fact psychopath always going to top in politik/business/crime gang etc because he don't have no conscience to stop him DO ANYTHING) :o

 

is fantasy that man is good he is not good but he behave good when he is tame like dog

 

but same like dog when you don't train from baby is wild animal

 

and nature law is not same like monkey mans law :huh:

 

you are naïve to believe fantasy of the 'good man win' Hollywood bullshit story

Edited March 4, 2014 by KoS

[Etherimp 1323]

for starters, Pro gamers over age 21 are rare, your reaction speed gets worse... So, good luck wiping the map.

On the other hand, I have crossed the map multiple times to help people out, people i had never met in game before. and im not old!

 

 

I'm 34 and I'll put my reaction speed up against any 16 year old, any day of the week.

 

 

The reason you don't see 34 year old pro-gamers is not because their reaction speed gets worse, but because most 34 year olds get married, have kids, have car payments, house payments, and full time jobs... Those things are not conducive to sitting around playing video games with your friends all day.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Etherimp

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

honkx stop posting alf pictures. I laughed out so loud my gf woke up -.- You monster^^

 

 

---------------------prophecy start ------------------------------------

 

But...I feel a prophecy coming up....it's deep inside me...but it wants to see the light...*burp* Sorry.

For real, that's again the point of "just a game" "You don't lose anything when you die ingame" and "KoS, PoS" etc. which was debated in at least 3 threads in the past 2 days.

 

Since you obviously don't know them, here's a shortcut what will happen, because it happened the last 3 times:

 

tommes will storm in and brag about that he always told it, DayZ is doomed. Doooooomed.

skinheadarmy will follow up with a similar view but better arguments and actually being not such a douchebag, but he also wont listen to any arguments

after that highlander comes and tells you that only a skillsystem will give the characters enough value, so that people care about keeping them alive

inception comes and mocks highlander for pointing this out again, highhlander drops off the thread

Mdogg or johnny come to troll you

KoS storms in and starts writing in his russian accent, telling you what he thinks

I post a smartass comment about the state of the game and future planned things

Hetstaine states the obvious right thing

Some young gun comes in and writes the exact same thing, that someone said 3 or 4 posts ago

some other noob blames Dean hall and gets flamed

orlok stops by, makes a joke and leaves

someone starts calling names

orlok comes back, threatening

Windowlicker tries to be nice and explains for th 7th time in different words what actually happened and where may be flaws in your thoughts

Other users step in and start the whole debate again because, f*ck nobody here can read

And in the worst case DayzForumer comes and starts making bad troll posts, so that any one is annoyed and stops debating

The thread dies after 2 days, because it reaches page 3 of general discussion and nobody ever goes to page 3 or beyond. not even orlok nows what there really is.

 

 

----------------------propheycy end, topic again -----------

 

 

I think you may be right (although I have to add, a very similar post existed already, but ...ell....if orlok can't remember it, it never existed maybe ;)).

 

Point of the matter: Yes, but it's a game.

 

 

Edit: goddamn KoS wait for it! You ruined my prophecy! You too Hetstaine! Shame on you!

Edited March 4, 2014 by LaughingJack

[kroms001 99]

Yes, but as you have stated, todays society is extremly egoistic. Trust me, DayZ is authentic.

Are all societies? Or just the one you live in.  You are not taking into account various people that live off the grid in tribes etc.  So, that doesn't really make sense to the 70% of the worlds population that lives in shacks/huts and don't have a TV/computer. Out of the 7 billion people on earth, how many have HD tv's, PCs or internet access?  relatively few.  Out of 7 Billion people, only 2 billion have used the internet.  What about the other 5 billion - are they extremely egotistic as well?

[Super_Duty 466]

Not to mention the twits that just want to phuck with everyone because it fits their mood at the moment...

 

 

sociology???? with no society???? :huh:

 

after apocalypse happen society STOP TO FUNCTION in normal way :D

 

there will be many killer running around

 

murder killer and rapist who escape from prisons ;)

 

guys who want to do murder before but was full of fear from the justice system now they fill boots AND KILL no limit :o

 

man is predator who learn to tame himself and train himself but need civilization around for this to continue

 

after civilize world disappear we will see true face of no hair monkey mans with guns and nobody to control

 

guys who don't have limit on action by moral code etc WILL RISE TO TOP

 

nice guys who try to do in correct way will manage to create maybe small pocket of normality but eventual is happen PSYCHOPATH WILL TAKE CONTROL OF GROUP (because is fact psychopath always going to top in politik/business/crime gang etc because he don't have no conscience to stop him DO ANYTHING) :o

 

is fantasy that man is good he is not good but he behave good when he is tame like dog

 

but same like dog when you don't train from baby is wild animal

 

and nature law is not same like monkey mans law :huh:

 

you are naïve to believe fantasy of the 'good man win' Hollywood bullshit story

[execpro22 128]

 Not shooting and killing anything you see that isn't "you" on site.  Why? Because being alive would be a prize, and it would be respected amongst other survivors.

 

 

90% of the time there wouldn't be KoS unless absolutely needed.  Remember; these are the last of the humans on the planet, zombies are eating people's faces - the only thing left is each other.

 

I have noticed that most of the people who are my age (35-40) play as humanitarians.  My question; why is the younger gaming generation so fixated on killing everything in sight? 

 

 

Great another KOS thread disguised as a social commentary on the player base...

[kroms001 99]

Advantages of staying alive and grouping in:

 

Real Life:                                             Dayz:

-You survive                                        -You keep your stuff

-save Humanity                                   -Respawn

-social Contacts                                  -Mates can respawn

-keep or regain your life befor            -Turn off PC

 shit happened (after a long time)

 

I understand your point but please if something gets changed ever give it an extra mode/ another game so we can keep our beautiful PvP Game, in an apocalyptic scenario.

I respect you for actually role-playing DayZ and act like you would act in a real situation but some people just want to have good action.

Oh and jeah you can't win against the computer in DayZ, sure you can survive but it doesn't matter because it's just a game. Win against another player is much more fun.

I guess you have to play a co-op game to actually "simulate" a post apocalyptic world, it can't and won't happen in a game like DayZ. Why should you "win" against the zombies by killing them all? Start to repopulate? Build a farm and plant your food? :D

 

I would never want the pvp to leave the game, but I think it could be reflected more in survival, like one military entity fighting to get a hold of "patient zero" or the cure, or even one warlord vs another warlord over dominance of looting grounds.  And yes, it is just a game - this is known... but it could be so much more - and without killing the blood lust so many love about it too.

[solodude23 649]

Getting pretty sick of seeing different threads with the same subject over and over.

 

Also, alpha :P  And I'm being serious. It's way too early to determine how survival tactics and players' humanity will work in the final product when we still have the bare bones, limited capability version of the game. Give it time.

Edited March 4, 2014 by solodude23

[Nesuma (DayZ) 108]

I would never want the pvp to leave the game, but I think it could be reflected more in survival, like one military entity fighting to get a hold of "patient zero" or the cure, or even one warlord vs another warlord over dominance of looting grounds.  And yes, it is just a game - this is known... but it could be so much more - and without killing the blood lust so many love about it too.

 

I know what you mean but i really don't think it would work in DayZ. If it should happen they had to add so many PvE elements (Like for example farming and stuff). Or just like an idea I postfrom time to time :D. Add special white listed servers which have one hive for 1-4 Weeks and you cant respawn. Make it a different mode and everybody is happy. But for things like this we will have to wait for release.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Nesuma

[kroms001 99]

Great another KOS thread disguised as a social commentary on the player base...

No not at all.  I agree with KoS; but I think there should be humanizing elements to the game is what I am saying.  I believe that there should be a level of trust - because humans are running away from "infected" people and trying to survive.  So, no KoS should be here to stay and this isn't a thread about that at all... or did you not read my post? lol.  I think that Rocket sees that this is just another PvP, just set in a zombie apocalypse and it is fundamentally flawed because there is no aspect of reality, or humanization - just killing.  Nothing wrong with that, and perhaps that is what the devs intend; I am just saying as an "alpha" tester that paid for this game - "HEY, this game rocks - but if you put more stuff in this and not make it about killing another player for his loot, make it about survival because thousands of zombies are attacking everything - it would be epic."

 

So, please - read what I wrote.

[Nesuma (DayZ) 108]

No not at all.  I agree with KoS; but I think there should be humanizing elements to the game is what I am saying.  I believe that there should be a level of trust - because humans are running away from "infected" people and trying to survive.  So, no KoS should be here to stay and this isn't a thread about that at all... or did you not read my post? lol.  I think that Rocket sees that this is just another PvP, just set in a zombie apocalypse and it is fundamentally flawed because there is no aspect of reality, or humanization - just killing.  Nothing wrong with that, and perhaps that is what the devs intend; I am just saying as an "alpha" tester that paid for this game - "HEY, this game rocks - but if you put more stuff in this and not make it about killing another player for his loot, make it about survival because thousands of zombies are attacking everything - it would be epic."

 

So, please - read what I wrote.

Always ask yourself the question: How is it going to be fun? Maybe from time to time after you cleared a big base with 100 zombies and had an epic fight. Then you find ammo to do the same thing again and again. The only always different, and therefore interesting moments, are the encounters with other players. As a hero or a bandit (Hope you can help vs. Hope you can enjoy your PvP)

Edited March 4, 2014 by Nesuma

[solodude23 649]

"HEY, this game rocks - but if you put more stuff in this and not make it about killing another player for his loot, make it about survival because thousands of zombies are attacking everything - it would be epic."

 

So, please - read what I wrote.

This is exactly what they're doing. Give it time.

 

The survival element will be greatly increased when confirmed features such as the following are added.

-sickness

-polluted water

-working medical supplies

-hunting

-player temp/rain effecting temp

-cooking

-more, dangerous zombies

-respawning loot

-base building

-etc

Edited March 4, 2014 by solodude23