Log in/out location "ban"

[Kintaro (DayZ) 11]

Hello,

 

I've been thinking about this idea while playing, I'll explain :

 

I'm the sneaky kind. When I enter a location (base, city, village) I can easily spend 10-15-20 min observing the location, going around, zooming in to see if anyone is there, observing. I like to secure a location befor entering. I also have the sniper/scout role in my team.

 

So sometime, even after securing a zone, someone can just randomly reconnect anywhere, be right behind you  (this can also be done with ghostwalking) and ruin all the time you've just spent being sure no one was there.

 

So I tought some areas could be "ban"(edit : disabled) from reconnecting. In theses areas you just couldn't log out/in and you'd have to be at let's say a 1km radius away of that area to be able to log out. If you crash/loose connection you'd just be teleported outside the area. This could also partially solve the ghostwalking problem and I think it's pretty realistic since you can't just appear irl.

 

By areas i'm think about main cities/villages, airfield, ship, castle etc.

 

Maybe this could be countered when they introduce base/construction as you could log out of your base.. Or maybe not.

 

What do you think ?

Edited March 1, 2014 by Kintaro

[TokumeiSennin 34]

Not really like thats limits. Its could limit server jumpers but what if server will be reseted and i will be in "bad" area ? ban ? i guess you saying about temp ban but players can get disconnect not only if they want, server resets, crashes, net problems.

I know you mention about players which got crash/loose connect will be moved outside but server don't see diffrent between you left normal way and when you loose connect. Even if see, then there is many ways to loose connect on purpose. 

 

Another problem is how use this system on your beneficts. If player A is in town and player B coming to town, player B see player A and start shooting. Player A hid and use "loosing connect" on purpose and will be teleported to safe point, now player A (if know player B position) can attack him/her from behide.

Edited February 25, 2014 by TokumeiSennin

[Kintaro (DayZ) 11]

Not really like thats limits. Its could limit server jumpers but what if server will be reseted and i will be in "bad" area ? ban ?

 

When i say ban i'm talking about banning log in/out function from certain area, not baning players ! Or maybe we'd still be able to log out but would be tp'd out of the area when we relog. This also would help when the server crashes and you're right in the middle of an unsafe area.

 

 

Another problem is how use this system on your beneficts. If player A is in town and player B coming to town, player B see player A and start shooting. Player A hid and use "loosing connect" on purpose and will be teleported to safe point, now player A (if know player B position) can attack him/her from behide.

 

Indeed I tought about this. Well if there's still a long time befor being able to reconnect to a server i don't think this is an issue but it sure would need to be adjusted so people don't exploit it

Edited February 26, 2014 by Kintaro

[TokumeiSennin 34]

When i say ban i'm talking about banning log in/out function from certain area, not baning players ! 

My bad, sorry.

 

Indeed I tought about this. Well if there's still a long time befor being able to reconnect to a server i don't think this is an issue but it sure would need to be adjusted so people don't exploit it

If player is lucky its 30 sec delay, if not 5 min. If someone somehow block exploit that on purpose then would be great.

[Kintaro (DayZ) 11]

My bad, sorry.

 

If player is lucky its 30 sec delay, if not 5 min. If someone somehow block exploit that on purpose then would be great.

 

There could also be a specific time when relogging in theses specific areas, like 5min, so yeah you "could" use it to get tp'd, but it would be same or longer than running that distance

[Lumeria 27]

Not really like thats limits. Its could limit server jumpers but what if server will be reseted and i will be in "bad" area ? ban ? i guess you saying about temp ban but players can get disconnect not only if they want, server resets, crashes, net problems.

I know you mention about players which got crash/loose connect will be moved outside but server don't see diffrent between you left normal way and when you loose connect. Even if see, then there is many ways to loose connect on purpose. 

 

Another problem is how use this system on your beneficts. If player A is in town and player B coming to town, player B see player A and start shooting. Player A hid and use "loosing connect" on purpose and will be teleported to safe point, now player A (if know player B position) can attack him/her from behide.

Not really like thats limits. Its could limit server jumpers but what if server will be reseted and i will be in "bad" area ? ban ? i guess you saying about temp ban but players can get disconnect not only if they want, server resets, crashes, net problems.

I know you mention about players which got crash/loose connect will be moved outside but server don't see diffrent between you left normal way and when you loose connect. Even if see, then there is many ways to loose connect on purpose. 

 

Another problem is how use this system on your beneficts. If player A is in town and player B coming to town, player B see player A and start shooting. Player A hid and use "loosing connect" on purpose and will be teleported to safe point, now player A (if know player B position) can attack him/her from behide.

You have a point, what if someone uses the feature to get behind a player. Even if you were teleported into a random location, there is no guarantee you would. Not spawn behind or in front of another player, making the feature pointless. Even if you could not teleport to an area within a certain radius of another player the feature is still able to be manipulated to cause mischief.

If you go into a military base or rare loot area it is a risk you take. If you log in or out at a military base or other rare loot area again it is a risk you take. It is best to leave it how it is, and not introduce something that could make the game worse overall.

[Kintaro (DayZ) 11]

You have a point, what if someone uses the feature to get behind a player. Even if you were teleported into a random location, there is no guarantee you would. Not spawn behind or in front of another player, making the feature pointless. Even if you could not teleport to an area within a certain radius of another player the feature is still able to be manipulated to cause mischief.

If you go into a military base or rare loot area it is a risk you take. If you log in or out at a military base or other rare loot area again it is a risk you take. It is best to leave it how it is, and not introduce something that could make the game worse overall.

Well with that feature it would be a lot more random than ghostwalking/random log in. Yeah there's a small way where you can exploit it (to get tp'd out of an area), but I think it's better than the current situation which you can exploit a lot more.

 

Not saying the game is unplayable right now tough, just think it would add something.

[Lumeria 27]

Well with that feature it would be a lot more random than ghostwalking/random log in. Yeah there's a small way where you can exploit it (to get tp'd out of an area), but I think it's better than the current situation which you can exploit a lot more.

 

Not saying the game is unplayable right now tough, just think it would add something.

I don't think the exploits from this feature would be small. No only would be potentially teleport behind a player or in front of them (essentially supporting what your trying to prevent) but as was mentioned above people would use this to basically combat log, making fights in the areas with the feature someone pointless. Why fight if your opponent can just log at any time?

Even with the 30 second log out feature combat logging can still happen, I know that when watching play throughout people sit for a minute or so, before advancing on an enemy if there is not sight of them. The only punishment for people who would manipulated these people would be a 5 minute max wait time, which is nothing.

[the outcast 0]

Not exactly the same topic here, but maybe too close to justify a new thread.

 

We had an annoying experience yesterday, which could potentially be a game breaker.

 

A bandit player was hiding inside a military building, we had him surrounded.

When we stormed the place he wasn't there, only to minutes later materialize in rooms and then dissappear again, after killing some surprised players.

This happened at least two times within 5-10 minutes.

We realized that we were dealing with a player logging in and out from the server, using it as a teleport, only to cheat his way out of defeat.

He might even have used other servers in between, to move between rooms, but I'm not sure.

If this becomes normal behaviour, and isn't penalized, it will make this amazing game more or less uninteresting.

 

If player log in/out is displayed and showed publically to other players (just like losing connections), this issue would be reduced quite a bit.

I personally think these players should be banned from the server, but maybe that is too harsh.

 

All the best,

 

oldLaggy

[JuX 72]

There is major issue with this suggestion, which is players not knowing where they will be reconnecting at once they comeback.

It isn't exactly fair to let players connected to random unconcealed locations where they be shot-on-sight during connection.

The ghosting issue is pretty much toned town by the increased connection time and by the 30s logout timer.

 

Not exactly the same topic here, but maybe too close to justify a new thread.

 

We had an annoying experience yesterday, which could potentially be a game breaker.

 

A bandit player was hiding inside a military building, we had him surrounded.

When we stormed the place he wasn't there, only to minutes later materialize in rooms and then dissappear again, after killing some surprised players.

This happened at least two times within 5-10 minutes.

We realized that we were dealing with a player logging in and out from the server, using it as a teleport, only to cheat his way out of defeat.

He might even have used other servers in between, to move between rooms, but I'm not sure.

If this becomes normal behaviour, and isn't penalized, it will make this amazing game more or less uninteresting.

 

If player log in/out is displayed and showed publically to other players (just like losing connections), this issue would be reduced quite a bit.

I personally think these players should be banned from the server, but maybe that is too harsh.

 

All the best,

 

oldLaggy

 

If he reconnects and  has anykind of firearm he will be making loud reloading sounds indicating someone

is connecting really close to you, so may wish to rush and stop them, but just you know there is exploit that allows

players to go inside the administration building walls and start backstabbing other players.

[Hrki 94]

its fun part of the game and also you take more risks

 

and beulive me if you can w8 20min so can other "bandit" in some "totaly clear town" in some "unlooted house"

[TokumeiSennin 34]

Maybe add something like diffrent penatly time for log out in diffrent places. If its town/bulding/built-up area then ... let's say player need stay in game and wait 1 min to disconnect (same way like in mod, wait in game, not thats character stay 1 min after leave game) and can enter to server after 10 min or something like that. Outside areas would be same like is now.

[the outcast 0]

its fun part of the game and also you take more risks

 

and beulive me if you can w8 20min so can other "bandit" in some "totaly clear town" in some "unlooted house"

 

Could not disagree more.

 

It is a 100% killer of immersion imo.

I hope they can somehow prevent this childish "battlefield" behaviour in DayZ.

 

All the best...

[mithrawndo 166]

Did a tl;dr on this thread* so this has probably been said already.

 

If you crash/loose connection you'd just be teleported outside the area.

 

So I alt-f4 in the airfield because I heard breathing and immediately respawn a kilometre away, set my range and move in?

 

A log out timer makes a lot more sense, and is a tried and tested mechanism. Given the ambulatory pace of DayZ I feel this timer needs to be exceptionally long: 5 minutes seems appropriate* to me. This would have the benefit of discouraging server hopping for any purpose, as each disconnection leaves your character vulnerable and unattended for some considerable time, and thus you would be downright foolish not to make yourself safe before disconnection.

 

In the event of a connection failure for any reason, you'd still be vulnerable for 5 minutes. In the age of the SSD, even in the event of a full blown crash and reboot situation you can be back in the game within 2 minutes - 3 tops.

 

We can then remove these god awful server join timers. You know, the ones that are just really annoying. Whose bright idea was it to make us sit and look at a 30 second timer anyway?

[Kintaro (DayZ) 11]

Maybe a longer timer for certain area is more appropriate and can't be exploited indeed.

 

Now I tried to think about server crash / restart too as it happen often now. But I guess in the future, servers will display at what time they restart, or won't restart that much so It won't be that much of an issue. And if you crash, well you crash, can't prevent that.

 

Good points there !

[brazorf 46]

Not exactly the same topic here, but maybe too close to justify a new thread.

 

We had an annoying experience yesterday, which could potentially be a game breaker.

 

A bandit player was hiding inside a military building, we had him surrounded.

When we stormed the place he wasn't there, only to minutes later materialize in rooms and then dissappear again, after killing some surprised players.

This happened at least two times within 5-10 minutes.

We realized that we were dealing with a player logging in and out from the server, using it as a teleport, only to cheat his way out of defeat.

He might even have used other servers in between, to move between rooms, but I'm not sure.

If this becomes normal behaviour, and isn't penalized, it will make this amazing game more or less uninteresting.

 

If player log in/out is displayed and showed publically to other players (just like losing connections), this issue would be reduced quite a bit.

I personally think these players should be banned from the server, but maybe that is too harsh.

 

All the best,

 

oldLaggy

 

My two cents on this.

I think logout mode and timers should depend on the situation. Example:

 

- you are alone inside a building / out of combat mode / not engaged: instant logout

- you are in combat mode or engaged: 5 min timer

- you are in the open space / out of combat mode / not engaged: 1 min

- many more cases

 

Main problem here is: does dayz implements the "engaged" concept? Or any attack is just a random hit/shot ?

 

Eventually, this matter should be coupled with bases/houses/etc., giving players "safe" areas in which logout. 

[Kintaro (DayZ) 11]

My two cents on this.

I think logout mode and timers should depend on the situation. Example:

 

- you are alone inside a building / out of combat mode / not engaged: instant logout

- you are in combat mode or engaged: 5 min timer

- you are in the open space / out of combat mode / not engaged: 1 min

- many more cases

 

Main problem here is: does dayz implements the "engaged" concept? Or any attack is just a random hit/shot ?

 

Eventually, this matter should be coupled with bases/houses/etc., giving players "safe" areas in which logout. 

 

Yep if you just got shot / hit or you just attacked someone the timer should be longer to log out

[TokumeiSennin 34]

My two cents on this.

I think logout mode and timers should depend on the situation. Example:

 

- you are alone inside a building / out of combat mode / not engaged: instant logout

Aganist this one, its would be nice "player scan area", someone is near or not, check it without penatly.

[mithrawndo 166]

Any mechanic that allows for meta gaming is immersion breaking and should not be introduced*. This includes state based login/logout timers.

 

Flat timer: 5 minutes until character despawn on logout, instant login.

 

*...but, the game currently seems to work on the principle of creating a network bubble around yourself. It would probably not be hard to implement and instant logout when there is noone inside the same network bubble as you, but a timer when there is.

[brazorf 46]

Flat timer: 5 minutes until character despawn on logout, instant login.

 

 

This way each time i logout i should pray my Gods. Why should i risk to lose my character when i do a legit logout?

[Meekalew 44]

Actually, it would be a great idea not to allow a player to log out and back into high loot / high risk areas and back into the same spot, but there should be an additional preventative measure; increase the log out timer in these specific areas as well, so that to do a normal log out you need be outside the fence of the perimeter.

 

The argument against this is pointless, because if you know you're in an area that has an extended log out timer and will randomly place you outside the area when you log back in... then you already *know* you should not log out there and its a risk you are willingly taking by choice; and you already know you should leave the area before you log out for a normal log out. What these people are really trying to defend is teleporting with a really weak argument for bad mechanics that let players use an unintended teleport exploit by server hopping; I am less than a week new to this game and I already know how ridiculous this "feature" is.

[Kintaro (DayZ) 11]

Actually, it would be a great idea not to allow a player to log out and back into high loot / high risk areas and back into the same spot, but there should be an additional preventative measure; increase the log out timer in these specific areas as well, so that to do a normal log out you need be outside the fence of the perimeter.

 

The argument against this is pointless, because if you know you're in an area that has an extended log out timer and will randomly place you outside the area when you log back in... then you already *know* you should not log out there and its a risk you are willingly taking by choice; and you already know you should leave the area before you log out for a normal log out. What these people are really trying to defend is teleporting with a really weak argument for bad mechanics that let players use an unintended teleport exploit by server hopping; I am less than a week new to this game and I already know how ridiculous this "feature" is.

 

 

Well that's what I was thiking with that feature. Sure you could exploit a bit the teleportation feature, but server hopping is worse that that. If you also add a long timer at log in/out. people wouldn't exploit it all.

 

But only a longer timer would be fine too (and easier to setup)

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

Was ansered by Hicks in the stream from 26.02:

 

Restrict logging in in high risk/high rewards areas: not planned

 

See here for more information: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/175596-summary-of-dev-qas-from-streams/#entry1796311

 

Longer timer: Sure, why not. Add all the "login-timer"-time that you got and sum it up everytime (like: First time leaving server that you were on less than 30 minutes: 5 minutes. Second time, you were on a server for 20 minutes, gives you a penalty of 2 minutes. Next server you join, you have to wait not 2 but 7 minutes etc.), can only be reset if you stay more than an hour on a server.

BUT: I hope (hope, hope, hope) that with the dynamic loot-respawn-system that is planned the amount of server hoppers goes down rapidly...

[Kintaro (DayZ) 11]

did they say why ?

[Window Licker 504]

I read this thread, but I'm not sure what is going on here, for someone to use ghosting now it's 30 sec logout timer, instant onto next server, 30 second timer and 280? seconds to log back it's simply not that effective I had a guy ghost 4 time in less time then that, now that was BS.

 

For someone to ghost they must be left unmolested for 30 seconds, when they log back in they have a brief moment before they gain control of their character.  Might I suggest a more aggressive style of gameplay to combat this sort of thing. Finally if you suspect someone is ghosting run, hide and watch where you just where or just run like the wind there is no way he'd ever catch you with all the timer's he has to go thru.