Why Day Z is "Fundamentally Flawed"

[Solopopo 330]

Yikes, that's rough isn't it? The developer coming right out and stating that the game was fundamentally flawed from the beginning. But what does he mean by that? And does it mean Day Z is doomed to fail? 

 

I think what he is referring to is Day Z's server structure. Day Z was a mod of a game with dedicated servers, as we all know. This is a challenge because it goes against what Dean is hoping to accomplish with Day Z, and deep down he always knew it. He just couldn't drop the project until now, because of it's immense popularity. Dean's vision for Day Z is impossible to accomplish. It's why we've seen wonky anti server hopping and combat logging implementations. The game the way Dean sees it, which I will refer too as "Dean's Game," just isn't meant to be played on dedicated servers. Deans vision of Day Z can only be accomplished in an MMO style open world much, much bigger than Chenarus, with servers as large as you would expect of a typical MMO. That's why he's setting up his own developing company in New Zealand, where he can make the game he wants, and not have to conform to any restraints that might be imposed by a dedicated server structured game. Sure it sucks, but the game that he will produce will be worth the wait.

 

So what does all this mean for Day Z? Well, the future is now very uncertain. Will the project be dropped? Certainly not. The game is way too popular for that. The game will continue to change and evolve, but in a much different way than Dean intended. We should anticipate changes that might raise a few eyebrows. Is this bad? Not necessarily, but we can expect that the "vision" of the game is certainly going to change. Whether this is good or bad we have yet to see, but it is up to us as a community to do the best we can to make the game great. That is, until Dean's masterpiece is finally finished, which I don't expect to see for a long time. So get comfortable guys. It's going to be a long time before that happens, and we are stuck with Dean's half-cooked game in the meantime. But even half-cooked, it's still great. Even a semblance of what Dean was trying to make has been enormously successful. What we have to look forward to is the future of gaming. 

 

So there you have it. Let's make this game the best it can be guys.

 

Keep in mind that I am not trying to offend anyone. I care about Day Z and it's community, which is why I post at all. 

 

Edit: Day Z still has Dean for the next ten months I know, but that's it after that. 

Edited February 25, 2014 by Solopopo

[Guest]

That was a good read mate, and I respect your opinion and won't come out and flame you,

 

However we all understand that Dayz is a game that Dean wants to play, therefore any changes will not necessarily be for us, but for him, either way it will be good to watch :)

[m3ik0 333]

Edited February 25, 2014 by Meik0

[Mullraugh 1151]

DayZ is DayZ is DayZ.

No matter what they do to it, I'll still love it.

 

(hey Dean... add unicorns and flying pink walrues!)

Edited February 25, 2014 by mullraugh

[joe_mcentire 2074]

how about we don't start such pointless threads? because there are what they are....pointless.

[guppy22143 1081]

I thought Dean wasn't leaving until a year from now? Either way, it's sad... I am a legitimate Dean Hall fan boy. And DEAN DUDE YOU'RE BREAKING MY HEART! :(

 

I am a sad doctor today.

[hells high 676]

All games are flawed. People are just so sensitive.

[colinm9991 196]

Judging from Bohemia's track record of updates with ArmA 2 & 3, I personally think DayZ SA is going to fall to shit once Dean leaves.

He can only do as much as he can in that time; but it's safe to say that I will definitely be keeping track of his progress if/when he does leave.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

You know what,i honestly think he has issues about having to share his game with BI.

Reality is he wanted to be his his own boss on his own studio on his own project,having to file a 50 page report to your boss for just a small minor tweak in the game,or if you want to make a change from what is planned is nerve-racking.Secondly,the engine is very unstuble and hard to work with,It comes with a lot of problems

and it was a mistake for his to use it for the SA version and i bet it will limit the game's horizons

(controls will be forever clunky even if tweaked),also the guy is wants to go home in 10 months time to see his kid and wife dudes,we have to respect that.The future will be bright,as long as he has passion in what he does,he is very social with the comunity and always delivers new content (patches).So personally i have 0 complaints about him,for now.

[StayAlive (DayZ) 169]

Well, been playing the game for 140 hours and so far i have had a good time. Whatever happens next can't take that away;)

[Solopopo 330]

Judging from Bohemia's track record of updates with ArmA 2 & 3, I personally think DayZ SA is going to fall to shit once Dean leaves.

He can only do as much as he can in that time; but it's safe to say that I will definitely be keeping track of his progress if/when he does leave.

Unfortunately, I agree with you. Almost everything wrong with Day Z I attribute to Bohemia. Everything right Dean is responsible for. Arma wouldn't have sold half as many copies without him. He's been fighting their terrible engine for years. At least he has 10 more months to work on the game. They should just leave things the way they are after that, but they probably won't. I'm sure he'll leave the people working on the game in his stead a set of guidelines. Whether they adhere to them....well, based on the arguments he describes having with them over the state of the game, I think not.  

 

I thought Dean wasn't leaving until a year from now? Either way, it's sad... I am a legitimate Dean Hall fan boy. And DEAN DUDE YOU'RE BREAKING MY HEART! :(

 

I am a sad doctor today.

 

Yeah. We get ten more months of his handiwork, but that's it after that. I am sad as well  :(

 

 

 

Quoted for relevance. Although, it certainly wasn't a financial mistake, I agree. 

 

 

how about we don't start such pointless threads? because there are what they are....pointless.

 

I don't think discussing the future state of the game is pointless at all. We are the consumers. Our voice matters, believe it or not. 

Edited February 25, 2014 by Solopopo

[colinm9991 196]

Unfortunately, I agree with you. Almost everything wrong with Day Z I attribute to Bohemia. Everything right Dean is responsible for. Arma wouldn't have sold half as many copies without him. He's been fighting their terrible engine for years. At least he has 10 more months to work on the game. They should just leave things the way they are after that, but they probably won't. I'm sure he'll leave the people working on the game in his stead a set of guidelines. Whether they adhere to them....well, based on the arguments he describes having with them over the state of the game, I think not. 

 

Hopefully he has set some sort of security in place to protect DayZ against certain things, despite being on the Bohemia engine he has been given permission to use it (Obviously as it's released) so he should have some basis of copyright on the game for himself and not just Bohemia.

[Solopopo 330]

Hopefully he has set some sort of security in place to protect DayZ against certain things, despite being on the Bohemia engine he has been given permission to use it (Obviously as it's released) so he should have some basis of copyright on the game for himself and not just Bohemia.

I don't think he has any legal rights over the game apart from Bohemia. That's just not the way the gaming industry works. But I sure hope I'm wrong. 

Edited February 25, 2014 by Solopopo

[djporternz 644]

BI > DayZ > Dean "Rocket" Hall

 

Dean's baby has grown up, and is now a thing in it's own right. Hell, I'll go as far as saying it has been and will be a cash cow for BI. I don't mean this in a bad way, but just the reality of history. BI is in some ways tied to the ongoing popularity of DayZ, and as Dean has already said a few times now, he can see a time where his vision for DayZ may become detrimental to it. Flaws and all, this train isn't going to be stopping anytime soon!

 

TBH, when Dean speaks about flaws in the game, he's comparing it to some mythical 'perfect' MMO game as he envisions it. I don't know how close he will every be able to approach that goal, but it is something to watch for. And you never know, he may be able to pull it off!

[colinm9991 196]

I don't think he has any legal rights over the game apart from Bohemia. That's just not the way the gaming industry works. But I sure hope I'm wrong. 

 

Too bad, I was wondering the other day to myself; "How long will it be until BI remove Dean's name from the main menu screen after he leaves?"

[Solopopo 330]

Too bad, I was wondering the other day to myself; "How long will it be until BI remove Dean's name from the main menu screen after he leaves?"

Immediately most likely. At least within the first patch after his departure, which may entail changes he stood in the way of during his time involved with the game.   

Edited February 25, 2014 by Solopopo

[djporternz 644]

Hopefully he has set some sort of security in place to protect DayZ against certain things, despite being on the Bohemia engine he has been given permission to use it (Obviously as it's released) so he should have some basis of copyright on the game for himself and not just Bohemia.

 

 

I don't think he has any legal rights over the game apart from Bohemia. That's just not the way the gaming industry works. But I sure hope I'm wrong. 

 

The legal stuff would require a lawyer to sift through, but he developed the Mod while at BI but I'm guessing that his 'ownership' and IP would be restricted to something similar to any other mod author.

 

As to the engine, I'm sure that BI hold that one completely. They don't license that outside their own organisation, so with Dean back down here in NZ he'll probably have to start from scratch for that. Not completely bad, but it could explain the reasoning behind him stating it'll take 2~3 years to get up and running.

 

 

 

Too bad, I was wondering the other day to myself; "How long will it be until BI remove Dean's name from the main menu screen after he leaves?"

 

 I'd very much doubt they'd do that.

Edited February 25, 2014 by DJPorterNZ

[Solopopo 330]

 

 I'd very much doubt they'd do that.

Bohemia won't want his legacy looming over their game as a constant reminder. I think they are tired of what he symbolizes; tired of one man exerting so much influence over their investment, who makes decisions based on what he thinks will make the game better, instead of what is best financially. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the ones who want him to leave, and he was told to announce it as his own decision. If he came out and said he was asked to leave there would be pandemonium. This seems to me like history repeating itself. Gaming companies don't hesitate to cut the heads off figureheads in the community of a game, especially when said figurehead poses a threat to profit. The people who own these companies are not gamers. They look at games and see dollar signs, not entertainment. 

Edited February 25, 2014 by Solopopo

[bfisher 561]

Not sure what is "fundamentally flawed".  I guess maybe that DayZ can't really evolve.  Sure, you can add vehicles and more weapons and other loot and even new villages.  But at the end of the day, it's basically just a lot of roaming around Cherno, dealing with zombies and other players with no real purpose other than stay alive and collect as much shit as possible.

 

Then again, maybe it needs no other purpose.  Sort of like a metaphor for life itself.

[colinm9991 196]

The legal stuff would require a lawyer to sift through, but he developed the Mod while at BI but I'm guessing that his 'ownership' and IP would be restricted to something similar to any other mod author.

 

As to the engine, I'm sure that BI hold that one completely. They don't license that outside their own organisation, so with Dean back down here in NZ he'll probably have to start from scratch for that. Not completely bad, but it could explain the reasoning behind him stating it'll take 2~3 years to get up and running.

 

 

 

 

 I'd very much doubt they'd do that.

 

As far as the mod goes, that can never be copyrighted to the extent of seeking legal action under any event as it is developed completely with BI tools, as is the standalone; but with the standalone there are more conceptual features belonging to Dean which could have been copyrighted or patented, for example; "Patent #001: A idea or concept based around survival horror which features objects such as x y and z". 

 

Obviously, not described like that, but there could be things in the game that are copyrighted; I've personally seen stuff like that before and worked with info such as that.

 

As for the last part, I hope BI respect Deans work and try not to hog it all to themselves.

[Solopopo 330]

All games are flawed. People are just so sensitive.

Indeed people have feelings for the games they play. One glance down the front page of many game's general message boards makes this abundantly clear. When you invest a lot of your time into something, you start to care about it. People get passionate when they feel like something is threatening their favorite pastime, which they may have devoted a lot of their life to. I for one have invested almost 300 hours of my time into Day Z. That's 12.5 days! You may have invested even more. That's an investment I care about. 

Edited February 25, 2014 by Solopopo

[Hetstaine 10852]

 

 

 but the game that he will produce will be worth the wait.

 

 What we have to look forward to is the future of gaming.

 

 

 

 These are the two things that have kept me here from the start...well not long after anyway when i was impacted by my first death and realised... here was a game that was not like the others. Finally.

 

Yeah i'm a Rocket fan boy

 

 

  

Gonna need a defib !

[Solopopo 330]

 These are the two things that have kept me here from the start...well not long after anyway when i was impacted by my first death and realised... here was a game that was not like the others. Finally.

 

Yeah i'm a Rocket fan boy

 

You would love a game called "Tibia." It is a shadow of it's former glory, but I highly recommend playing it if you like for death in games to actually matter. No game in the world will make your heart pound harder, not even Day Z. Tibia is Deans vision come to fruition, in a medieval fantasy setting, with terrible graphics. 

Edited February 25, 2014 by Solopopo

[crazykage 1063]

good read, op.

 

But I don't think that's quite what he meant. Look at it from an artist's standpoint. I have some ("SOME") talent when working with clay. Ive made quite a few pieces in my college classes I took, that turned out to be quite good. My professor would always congratulate me and tell me how good the work was. But I would always be quick to say "no, its NOT that great." to which the answer was always something along the lines of "yes it IS"....

 

Point being that when you make something yourself, you will do so with an intent for the final product. And when you are done, you, the creator, will judge your own creation. You will see all of the flaws and mistakes you made, down to the most MINUTE detail. Everyone else may look at it and behold loveliness, but YOU will always look at it, and be unable to ignore the flaws in your creation. Flaws that others miss, because they don't know what to look for. But you do, and you see them.

 

I think that dayz SA isn't quite exactly what he envisioned. I think its actually impossible for him to see it happen perfectly. And I think that he knows this. Therefore the concept is "fundamentally flawed".

 

_{Despite its obvious flaws and issues, its still a great game. It still gives me a sense of immersion, and causes me to experience an actual adrenaline rush.}

 

_{_end rand abruptly. Got somewhere to be.}

Edited February 25, 2014 by Crazykage

[rybo 171]

By the time he makes his Uber game my kids will be playing it....And I don't even have a GF yet..

 

As stated by another commenter take a look at Arma 2 and Arma 3's launches and expect nothing different. Content will be cut and slowly added in over the course of the next year or more. It's the new Dev style of making games.

 

Dean would have been the only voice that could say No, to a early release. Granted they could have told him to stuff it. But again he was the only one with such influence. Now that hes leaving before and or right after Beta what else would you expect. Oh that's right a half baked dream.

 

Oh wait he said he would work from home and help out....lulz

 

 

Don't blame him though. It's no where the game he wanted it to be and on top of all that hes been away for 3 years. Poor MoFo has been on active duty too long and needs to come home. Fair enough IMO.

Edited February 25, 2014 by RyBo