Is it too much to ask for smooth controls?

[louist 163]

this is not true. the DayZ team has direct access to the engine, so it would be absolutely possible to code new input controls without too much hassle.

However i agree that we probably wont see it, considering how massively Arma code and assets are reused by the team. Its a pity though.

It's not about access, it's about scope. At a certain point, the amount of work required to change a a set of mechanics just isn't worth the time and effort it would take, and I would wager that's what we're seeing here. BI, with it's full access and greater resources than Rocket's team, has only been able to make fairly minor improvements to the fluidity and refinement of movement in the RV engine with each iteration. Arma III is better, but not much so.

At this point, to see the kind of changes players want, would likely require an overhaul of the entire engine. It isn't simply changing variables, it's redefining the limits of the engine, and that's a big task, beyond the manpower and time Rocket has.

That's why, as someone aptly put it, character control feels like you're moving a tank, and why melee combat isn't much different than it was in the mod, where axes behaved as extremely short range guns (hense why axes had to be reloaded, and why they left bullet holes). There are limits, and despite Rocket's access, he still has to work within them.

Edited February 24, 2014 by louist

[Zoridium JackL 16]

That's not how it's supposed to be, that's how it is. The game doesn't use a mouse sensitivity as such, it uses a turn speed. It's a good system but it needs a lot of tweaking and fixing.

what he means is that there isn't anything wrong with turn speed being determined by all those factors (such as a max turn speed and what-not), and it's not like that isn't there, but aside form that the mouse controls (in regards to mouse acceleration) are broken in that we have negative mouse acceleration so we don't really experience the gear based system past the broken accel one.

 

if I move my mouse very slowly about a few centimeters to the side I can easily do a 360 turn, but if I move the mouse the same distance as fast as I can I'll be lucky to turn more then 40 degrees. mouse acceleration is supposed to work the opposite way, the faster you move your mouse the faster you go (up until your gears limit), and as much as I'd like to turn that off in and of itself it's even worse when it's forced on and then doesn't work correctly anyway, it turns a somewhat undesirable but still fairly intuitive method of control into a constant wrestling match (which you eventually push to the back of your mind, but it's still an issue). and this is all regardless of what gear I'm wearing.

 

it's an alpha so things like this are to be expected, but it would still be nice if they were fixed sooner rather then later.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Stop playing DayZ like a twitch shooter and you will soon discover how to handle this game. Kids, welcome to manhood.

[infiltrator 275]

Stop playing DayZ like a twitch shooter and you will soon discover how to handle this game. Kids, welcome to manhood.

 

Newsflash, manhood isn't being a self-absorbed asshole. Is arma 3 a twitch shooter? No. Does it have clunky controls? No.

 

Anyway, Dean got our money and is leaving bohemia in 10 months, guess I got my answer... but hey, it's alpha!

Edited February 24, 2014 by Infiltrator

[TheWanderingMan 170]

Aiming and shooting weapons IRL is easier than doing it in this game, I want it to feel realistic but the way the weapons are now when it comes to aiming isn't realistic imo.

 

Anyway....................

 

APLHAAAAAAAAAAA  U NOOBSSSS NOT ALLOWED AN OPINION U SILLY COD KID KOS SCUM

[finnpalm 312]

OPFP had shit controls. Arma had shit controls. Arma 2 had shit controls. Arma 3 did improve on that. Dayz has shit controls. All the way from the WASD movement bumping me into places I never wanted to go at, the mouse having weird acceleration even though its off, up to the point of some questionable control schemes like hold breath + zoom being on the same button.

 

I literally feel like I'm inside a truck when I'm trying to climb stairs. It's like if you miss a turn you go to the side and just roll off of them. If I switch weapons I have to keep moving on no matter what, just have to! If I press w I always, always go forward for a second after I let go of the button. I have a really strong rig and my framerate never dips, so it's NOT that.

 

I know, it's alpha, but should we expect dayz to ever properly implement movement/controls to the point we don't feel like we're controlling a badly constructed robot but a real human being? Or is this simply an arma 2 engine limitation that will never get fixed?

 

You don't have military training I take it. Taking a breath and releasing about a third of the air in your lungs then holding your breath is pretty crucial if you're taking an aimed shot at something. Moving with a weapon in hand isn't like in bf and cod. An assault rifle is fairly heavy and moving and shooting is difficult. In my opinion the controls are a lot more realistic than in other games. And that includes being somewhat clunky. Get used to them.

[infiltrator 275]

You don't have military training

 

 

Stopped reading. Play arma 3. Come back with findings based on control scheme.

[TheWanderingMan 170]

^^What Army were you in that teaches you to hold your breath when taking a shot? lol

 

Real world Armies release the shot on the exhale broseph.

Edited February 24, 2014 by TheWanderingMan

[deebz1234 243]

not to mention once you start an action, you must finish it.

 

got mauled to death because I decided to eat some food in a quiet little spot...shout easily be able to cancel out of an action and run!

 

I love how when SA first came out, FrankieonPC tweeted rocket about the mouse accel...rocket was quick to pander to that and assure him it was being addressed asap.

Where did that go? Nowhere...

[deebz1234 243]

Stopped reading. Play arma 3. Come back with findings based on control scheme.

ya seriously, why do people always bring up their army card on this forum...

 

he talking about the fucking control scheme, not realism. it is horrendous and well documented over the series.

[Crooked Hauser 258]

ya seriously, why do people always bring up their army card on this forum...

he talking about the fucking control scheme, not realism. it is horrendous and well documented over the series.

He's right. In the Marines they teach you not to play the Army card.

[finnpalm 312]

Stopped reading. Play arma 3. Come back with findings based on control scheme.

 

Why should I play Arma 3? I was referring to the clunkiness of the controls being realistic compared to the controls of games like bf and cod.

 

^^What Army were you in that teaches you to hold your breath when taking a shot? lol

 

Real world Armies release the shot on the exhale broseph.

 

Yes, exhale and then hold, pull trigger, continue exhale. If you're breathing while pulling the trigger you're less accurate.

 

ya seriously, why do people always bring up their army card on this forum...

 

he talking about the fucking control scheme, not realism. it is horrendous and well documented over the series.

 

Doesn't the "fucking control scheme" aim to be realistic? Or are you saying you'd prefer a less realistic game? It's fine if you do. Not putting any value into that. Personally I like the realism of the controls.

[victusmortuus 1074]

games flawed, jack.

[Mdogg2005 447]

I just don't understand how Arma II / DayZ mod are actually more fluid control-wise than the Standalone.  It should be the opposite.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I just don't understand how Arma II / DayZ mod are actually more fluid control-wise than the Standalone.  It should be the opposite.

 

QFT

 

I can't even play DayZ for at least an hour after playing Arma 3. It's like getting out of a Chevelle and into a Chevette.

[shadowless_m3rk 2]

OPFP had shit controls. Arma had shit controls. Arma 2 had shit controls. Arma 3 did improve on that. Dayz has shit controls. All the way from the WASD movement bumping me into places I never wanted to go at, the mouse having weird acceleration even though its off, up to the point of some questionable control schemes like hold breath + zoom being on the same button.

I literally feel like I'm inside a truck when I'm trying to climb stairs. It's like if you miss a turn you go to the side and just roll off of them. If I switch weapons I have to keep moving on no matter what, just have to! If I press w I always, always go forward for a second after I let go of the button. I have a really strong rig and my framerate never dips, so it's NOT that.

I know, it's alpha, but should we expect dayz to ever properly implement movement/controls to the point we don't feel like we're controlling a badly constructed robot but a real human being? Or is this simply an arma 2 engine limitation that will never get fixed?

[SmashT 10907]

One of my biggest gripes with the game, I hope they spend some serious time overhauling movement/controls/responsiveness etc to make them more fluid. The actual keybinds/controls don't really bother me, moreso the mouse acceleration and the annoying delay between when you press a key and the animation action beginning (jumping, switching inventory items, walking up a hill/stairs), not being able to interrupt animations etc. Moving around indoors also feels really clunky (as it always did in ArmA) but I can't put my finger on what it is exactly.

[JackinatorLP 21]

I know, it's alpha, but ....

Oh no, not again.

 

Look, atleast tell the truth: You don't like this game. You don't want it to be like this alpha crap they're talking about the whole time. You want it your way, and you want it now.

 

*edit deleted last sentence . wasa bit too far fetched.

Edited February 24, 2014 by JackinatorLP

[infiltrator 275]

Oh no, not again.

 

Look, atleast tell the truth: You don't like this game. You don't want it to be like this alpha crap they're talking about the whole time. You want it your way, and you want it now.

 

*edit deleted last sentence . wasa bit too far fetched.

 

If you actually followed through reading that you'd know that my question was - does the alpha status actually mean anything when it comes to this issue, because it might as well be an engine limitation that transcends the "alpher" protocol. Do read before jumping to conclusions.

[deebz1234 243]

ALPHA!

 

lol couldnt resist.

 

Strawman...try running up a hill in SA. tell me then you understand what were saying.

 

i think you think they designed the controls like this to make the game more realistic.

 

basically they should fix the negative mouse accell and smooth things out, and then introduce realism.

 

I dont think porting over the code from TOH or Arma 2 is a great idea. Its bohemia...the movement and weapons, etc are all so well done in arma 3. why the fuck not use it and mod it.

as opposed to trying to reinvent the wheel.

[louist 163]

Why should I play Arma 3? I was referring to the clunkiness of the controls being realistic compared to the controls of games like bf and cod.

Yes, exhale and then hold, pull trigger, continue exhale. If you're breathing while pulling the trigger you're less accurate.

Doesn't the "fucking control scheme" aim to be realistic? Or are you saying you'd prefer a less realistic game? It's fine if you do. Not putting any value into that. Personally I like the realism of the controls.

I worry about you, Strawman. I really do.

There is little realism in the controls, or rather, in how those controls respond to your actions, and how your character responds to them in turn. Character control in SA (and in the RV engine in general) is the definition of clunky. There is no fluidity between movements or individual animations, and each animation is bookended with a pause that makes most actions in SA look like it's performed by a robot.

Selecting items in the hot bar is often unresponsive, and as someone else has pointed out, despite slow delays, these selections queue, meaning if your character doesn't seem to be pulling out his pistol after two or three seconds (not uncommon), and you hit the key again, he may very well pull it out, and immediately holster it. There no way for you, as a player, to know whether your input has even registered.

Then there is the inability to cancel animations/actions, which can be dangerous and frustrating. Given the ponderousness of both registering the key press for a custom animation (say, pointing) and the animation itself, you're stuck spending a few seconds waiting for the process to end before you can do anything else.

And then there's negative acceleration...

This isn't about turning dayZ into a twitch shooter, it's about having the controls hew a little closer to reality. SA, as it is, exists in the opposite extreme as a twitch shooter, and is no better for it.

[gomeowmeow 45]

You don't have military training I take it. Taking a breath and releasing about a third of the air in your lungs then holding your breath is pretty crucial if you're taking an aimed shot at something. Moving with a weapon in hand isn't like in bf and cod. An assault rifle is fairly heavy and moving and shooting is difficult. In my opinion the controls are a lot more realistic than in other games. And that includes being somewhat clunky. Get used to them.

i disagree with the  An assault rifle is fairly heavy and moving and shooting is difficult. statement. first off my colt is about 7-8 pounds, thats fairly light and moving around with it is easy if your alone as you dont have to focus on muzzle control which no one does in dayz or any game for that matter. and most of the time when you shoot at someone in the city your around 50-100 yards out and you can move and shoot at that range(you wont get 2 in groups or hit everyshot, specially since most people that play go full auto with m4s half the time) but its fairly well doable irl without training, if you shoot fairly regularly it shouldnt be much of a problem since your  rifle is locked into your shoulder and you can keep your upper body from shaking around when moving, in this game you cant. and last thing its annoying to me when people call a rifle an assault rifle, is my tikka a sniper rifle because it has a scope? no i use it for hunting/long range target shooting. its what your doing with the rifle that makes it what it is. sry

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

Do you think that the clunky controls are an issue introduced along with the game's engine?

I personally always thought that,they would not pay any attention on tweaking it.

But if they do work on it,do you think that there is a chance of improvment on the controls,or is it something that you can't do much about?

[Tomo2000uk 33]

The weapon play for me feels like my gun is attached to the end of a very long stick. Its fucking chronic but it does add to the suspense of the game because everyone is a shit aim lol

[optimumbox 8]

If you want Dayz with good controls, play Arma 3 Breaking point. I prefer it over the old mod and SA just based off the movements alone.