The nature of public hives effectively destroy the challenge of surviving.

[froggan 6]

I can't believe the dev team chose to go the route of public hives. I understand the development issues, where a public hive system makes it easier for certain updates to the game and control of it. I however think that this is an easy way out, or even lazy way of doing it, since I think you can still get the same control with a private hive system. The current system of public hives and being able to server hop destroys the immersion in such a blatant way, that me and most of my friends have given up hope for standalone. Lots of us played the scam game WarZ, and the hive system Rocket has chosen for his standalone, just brings all the bad memories from WarZ back. At the time of us switching from WarZ, to try some of the mods for ARMA2 for the first time, we were in such a joy because of all the positive things of having one server per character (ie. private hive system). Haven't Rocket also gone through the process of playing on public hive servers, and then trying private hive servers? If so he should be able to see the advantages to player immersion. Something he has talked about a lot during the last year when SA was in development. And as I see many people are trying to argue that admin abuse, custom loadout etc would make a private hive server system hell, they don't understand that it would also be possible to limit the admin's powers (just like many mods have done). So this is not a valid argument for not making it so that one's character is tied to one specific server. Join another server? You start fresh with a new character.

 

We are thouroughly disappointed with the public hive system, and has made most of us stop playing and bugtesting Rocket's Alpha.

 

(feedback from a group of about 10 Swedish players)

[Korsbaek 1778]

There will be opened up for private hives at some point. No one knows when, but it's going to be good.

[pillock 850]

Yeah, I agree.

 

I don't know if it'd be possible, but what if player-server allocation was automated? So, you keep the many different individual servers, but the player doesn't choose which one he joins?

 

You choose Hardcore or Regular, and then the game enters you into a server that is as close to full capacity as possible. If you want to play with friends, there could be a team-formation tool in the game menu that allows you to buddy-up before entering, and then the server-allocation system puts you all into the same server.

 

Could that work? It would cut out the practice of people hopping between empty servers to gear up quickly, at least.

[wartzilla 182]

So you'd want all your investment to be tied up to one server, and when it's down, you're starting fresh? You don't want a persistent character?

 

Okay bro. Have fun.

[strongtent 74]

So you'd want all your investment to be tied up to one server, and when it's down, you're starting fresh? You don't want a persistent character?

 

Okay bro. Have fun.

I want this, but maybe when the game is at full release.

 

Everything in the game is bullshit right now in my opinion because its so early in development. It sucks that admins can be pricks but that will never end. All we can hope for is bug fixes and features for a long while, and I'm content with that so long as they happen regularly and without hassle.

[enforcer1975 1111]

So you'd want all your investment to be tied up to one server, and when it's down, you're starting fresh? You don't want a persistent character?

 

Okay bro. Have fun.

 

That is one risk but it's small compared to the unfairness the current system presents us atm. The private server system presents more advantages than the public hive like combat logging and ghosting not possible, sure a player can still log during a fight but because that player is bound to the server with his character you can easly investigate that person and warn him/her not to do that again, no hopper can jump into the same building as you of course a player who logged out in a building before can suddenly appear but that is less likely to happen because a player playing on one server is better off logging out in a safe place. The private servers have to be run by either a provider or a community ( which is more likely ) and kept running with donations, that's the only obstacle in this matter. Then you can let all the public hive player whine about not beeing able to find loot because of the hoppers because you on the other hand have a closed environment. And you can set rules that are ignored my the majority because it's YOLO it's a game stfu n00b when you remind them of unwritten rules of gaming. And you can make every player join one voice program ( with something like ACRE ) if he wants to play making the telephatic planning impossible.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Enforcer

[froggan 6]

Yeah, I agree.

 

I don't know if it'd be possible, but what if player-server allocation was automated? So, you keep the many different individual servers, but the player doesn't choose which one he joins?

 

You choose Hardcore or Regular, and then the game enters you into a server that is as close to full capacity as possible. If you want to play with friends, there could be a team-formation tool in the game menu that allows you to buddy-up before entering, and then the server-allocation system puts you all into the same server.

 

Could that work? It would cut out the practice of people hopping between empty servers to gear up quickly, at least.

It doesnt have to be so complicated to make things work. As I just wrote in another post, the issues of private hive server systems are easily fixable by exercising control of admin powers. (reference to the Origins mod in the state it was during the summer of 2013) This is something Rocket and BI could obviously have control over, just like the guys at gamersplatoon have. So the issues of admin abuse, custom loadouts etc could be non existant  The issues of public hive server systems are not fixable at all since they are inherent! You will never be able to solve the hopping since that's the nature of having a public hive system. Even with your proposed solution, you would still hop, and the immersion would suffer. Why even keep the public hive system? The technical bits of updates, databases for loot spawns and player saving etc must be solveable.

 

As I mentioned, I really don't understand the route of public hives that Rocket chosed. Very strange lack of judgment, since he should be the expert on this genre of games.

Edited February 23, 2014 by froggan

[froggan 6]

So you'd want all your investment to be tied up to one server, and when it's down, you're starting fresh? You don't want a persistent character?

 

Okay bro. Have fun.

 

Twice, during my 500 hours of Origins last summer, the server was down for about 4 hours due to DDOS to the server provider. Jeez, you don't have to, and maybe shouldnt, play a game for 55 hours straight like i did..? The break wasn't that unwelcomed. :) The point is that I never experienced any major problem of my server being down. And please do not use the term persistent in the context you are, since server hopping makes my experience if anything non persistent. In a private hive system, my character persists until I die inside that specific world. That is persistence for you.

Edited February 23, 2014 by froggan

[pillock 850]

As I mentioned, I really don't understand the route of public hives that Rocket chosed. Very strange lack of judgment, since he should be the expert on this genre of games.

 

Perhaps he just didn't anticipate just how popular the game would turn out to be, especially at this early stage. They must have grossed $40m plus.

 

There does need to be a decision somewhere along the line about this - the system that's in place now is not fit for purpose for a fully fledged standalone title - this is not some indie mod any more.

[ParaB 114]

Once the game is finished I can't see myself playing on hive servers.

 

The first time I witnessed an enemy player log out, switch to another server, get behind us, then log in again on our server was enough to convince me that the hive server infrastructure was utterly broken.

[soulfirez 901]

That is one risk but it's small compared to the unfairness the current system presents us atm. The private server system presents more advantages than the public hive like combat logging and ghosting not possible, sure a player can still log during a fight but because that player is bound to the server with his character you can easly investigate that person and warn him/her not to do that again, no hopper can jump into the same building as you of course a player who logged out in a building before can suddenly appear but that is less likely to happen because a player playing on one server is better off logging out in a safe place. The private servers have to be run by either a provider or a community ( which is more likely ) and kept running with donations, that's the only obstacle in this matter. Then you can let all the public hive player whine about not beeing able to find loot because of the hoppers because you on the other hand have a closed environment. And you can set rules that are ignored my the majority because it's YOLO it's a game stfu n00b when you remind them of unwritten rules of gaming. And you can make every player join one voice program ( with something like ACRE ) if he wants to play making the telephatic planning impossible.

This very much this then add in the closed enviroment means far less hacking and to be honest on a good private hive the bad guys are cooler the good guys cooler why because they usually USUALLY care about the game more than a yolo player randomly choosing public servers...

[froggan 6]

That is one risk but it's small compared to the unfairness the current system presents us atm. The private server system presents more advantages than the public hive like combat logging and ghosting not possible, sure a player can still log during a fight but because that player is bound to the server with his character you can easly investigate that person and warn him/her not to do that again, no hopper can jump into the same building as you of course a player who logged out in a building before can suddenly appear but that is less likely to happen because a player playing on one server is better off logging out in a safe place. The private servers have to be run by either a provider or a community ( which is more likely ) and kept running with donations, that's the only obstacle in this matter. Then you can let all the public hive player whine about not beeing able to find loot because of the hoppers because you on the other hand have a closed environment. And you can set rules that are ignored my the majority because it's YOLO it's a game stfu n00b when you remind them of unwritten rules of gaming. And you can make every player join one voice program ( with something like ACRE ) if he wants to play making the telephatic planning impossible.

 

I now understand that Wartzilla meant that the server may go down permanently, however, I think solutions exist for this issue as well. First, it can be player-exercised. Make sure the server you start out on seems reliable and have a system for YOU being able to pitch in for the monthly server costs. Second, there could be a system at hand that backups the servers' databases, so if the unfortunate would happen that a server and its content would disappear, there are ways to recover the data if anyone has the interest of continuing with the server. Third, and I don't know how feasible this is since I dont know the cost-structure for owning datacenters, but that BI stands behind all servers, instead of players paying for them as well as maintaining them. They have already turned over approximately 35 m euro. I just hope BI aren't looking to have the same profit margins on this game as Blizzard had/has for WoW of about 40-50%. Then of course it wouldn't be feasible with their own servers. I just hope they aren't as greedy as AAA producers..

[Zoridium JackL 16]

I'd rather not be tied to servers that can go down at any time thanks, especially when most server downtimes happen in my prime hours of play.

 

I'm not against private hives mind you, I just don't want to be restricted to private hives only, if you want one that's fine, as long as I can still switch between servers when one goes down or my friends get on.

[froggan 6]

I am also thinking about some of the content Rocket and his team have stated that they plan to add. What about player crafted and built structures? With the current public system, are said structures going to exist on any server you join, or only on the server you built it on? If the latter is the case, then even with a public hive system, the problems of servers going down permanently is still apparent! The only thing is that the immersion would suffer even more since it would be weird if you had, say for example, an underground base at one specific spot on one server, but when you played the same character on a different server the underground bunker wouldn't be there.. Rocket! I am not feeling immersed!! Wasn't that one of the most important things for you, while you developed this?

I am not talking about the current state of the game as it is in alpha, I am just curious to how the SA team plans to go forward with the discernable problems their architecture faces in mind.

[tommes 331]

This discussion started on a weird premise. The public hive offers the feature of being able to play with YOUR one an only character, which you're supposed to care about, to any server participating in it. That itself is a great thing and was somewhat new in gaming. Sure there are issues with this feature, like combat logging and ghosting, but this can be dealt with in some way or another. There are several systems out there for the mod to deal with this, like logoff timer. Yet OP insists that the public hive idea itself is inherently broken and that the non-existence of a feature gives one something special. Weird thinking.

 

tl&dr

The hive is a feature. Problems can be dealt with. You weird!

[froggan 6]

I'd rather not be tied to servers that can go down at any time thanks, especially when most server downtimes happen in my prime hours of play.

 

I'm not against private hives mind you, I just don't want to be restricted to private hives only, if you want one that's fine, as long as I can still switch between servers when one goes down or my friends get on.

 

Do you mean going down temporarily due to some technical problem or whatever, or permanently? In both cases, as i mentioned, it has almost never happened to me. I have however chosen my servers with utmost care and meticulousness..

[tommes 331]

I am also thinking about some of the content Rocket and his team have stated that they plan to add. What about player crafted and built structures? With the current public system, are said structures going to exist on any server you join, or only on the server you built it on?

 

You haven't played the mod, have you? It's probably going to be like with vehicles there. They exist on that particular server only.

About buildings in general is all I heard from rocket that there won't be overground buildings but maybe you can barricade an already existing structure.

But letting players build stuff has issues. A lot of guys are dickheads and will block off high value loot zones or whatever just to piss of other players. So they gotta be careful with that mechanic. But Rocket is aware of that.

[froggan 6]

This discussion started on a weird premise. The public hive offers the feature of being able to play with YOUR one an only character, which you're supposed to care about, to any server participating in it. That itself is a great thing and was somewhat new in gaming. Sure there are issues with this feature, like combat logging and ghosting, but this can be dealt with in some way or another. There are several systems out there for the mod to deal with this, like logoff timer. Yet OP insists that the public hive idea itself is inherently broken and that the non-existence of a feature gives one something special. Weird thinking.

 

tl&dr

The hive is a feature. Problems can be dealt with. You weird!

 

They (and also you) must have learnt by now that this "feature" is just dumb and not great at all. Everything else about a survival game in this genre is great, but not that "feature". You make it sound like this "feature" is the core of this type of game. Wake up, it actually only brings down the experience.

Edited February 23, 2014 by froggan

[froggan 6]

You haven't played the mod, have you? It's probably going to be like with vehicles there. They exist on that particular server only.

About buildings in general is all I heard from rocket that there won't be overground buildings but maybe you can barricade an already existing structure.

But letting players build stuff has issues. A lot of guys are dickheads and will block off high value loot zones or whatever just to piss of other players. So they gotta be careful with that mechanic. But Rocket is aware of that.

 

I have only played DayZero as the closest thing to vanilla, and they seemed to have private hives. The only place I have encountered public hives was in WarZ, and see what happened to that? Yes, and my only argument about that was that you would face the same kind of issues of your stuff being on one particular server, if the server would cease to exist etc..

Edited February 23, 2014 by froggan

[froggan 6]

You haven't played the mod, have you? It's probably going to be like with vehicles there. They exist on that particular server only.

About buildings in general is all I heard from rocket that there won't be overground buildings but maybe you can barricade an already existing structure.

But letting players build stuff has issues. A lot of guys are dickheads and will block off high value loot zones or whatever just to piss of other players. So they gotta be careful with that mechanic. But Rocket is aware of that.

 

The reason we went from DayZero to Origins, is that we weren't satisfied with the endgame in DayZero, and also what I guess was the same in Vanilla. With the ability of being able to build bases etc, the game became so much more exhilirating, and there was so much more to do! I want to add a link to an article you can all see in Steam - http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/02/19/dayz-diaries-the-one-where-andy-wonders-whats-next/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0. It highlights what most people feel about which direction this game should take. Maybe you just want to wander around the map being in random firefights, but most of us wants something else. Just look at the migration from the vanilla mod to the other mods with more features.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Yet OP insists that the public hive idea itself is inherently broken and that the non-existence of a feature gives one something special. Weird thinking.

 

In a way he is right, until something is fixed or used as it is supposed to and not abused it is simply "broken"...The natur of the system gives you freedom to choose a server and play there and in case the server goes down you still keep your character but this system has a ton of drawbacks as everybody knows, it think rocket never thought of players hopping from server to server only to farm military lot ( which they are obviously after most of the time ) because unlike in other MMOs this isn't possible so in a ways the hive system is unfair to players who want to stick to a home server. They obviously made a step in countering the combat logging and server hopping/farming issue, but because they don't have the balls to go the full step they walk half a step ahead and one sideways.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Enforcer

[weedmasta 784]

Rocket and co. have clearly stated that there will be private hives and even plans to add mod support. I don't understand what all the whining is about.

[catolm 0]

This game makes no sense with public hive. I played the mod a lot, started with public then turned to private quickly. Private hive servers was a hundred times more fun for me and my group, and if we wanted a new setting we could play another server without losing our stuff on the other server. Maybe 1 of 50 private hive servers had an abusive admin, but we found a good server and stayed with it. Private hive is the only true way of playing DayZ.

Cheers. Chariot

[Zoridium JackL 16]

Do you mean going down temporarily due to some technical problem or whatever, or permanently? In both cases, as i mentioned, it has almost never happened to me. I have however chosen my servers with utmost care and meticulousness..

both, but lets not forget scheduled downtime. and I've had servers disconnect me and refuse to reconnect many times.

 

I just want to open up the game and join whatever server offers what I want at that current time, I don't want to have to start a new character on a new server just because the one I play on is full, or because it doesn't have a decent enough population on at the moment, or is too busy for what I want to do (I like lower population servers when I'm gearing up to play with friends). I don't like being so heavily restricted when I just want to jump in and actually play the game with my character,

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Private hives are nice but only if the admin isn't a douche and modifies it to easy mode, kicks because their buddies get killed or gives themselves and friends the advantage by giving them items.