Should NV/IR be implemented?

[rickyriot 1009]

Bit of a long post, but stick with it, I won't add a TL;DR as the poll question should cover that....

 

Ok, my premise is that NV/IR (night vision and heat source infra red) shouldn't be implemented into the game as they give those who have them too great an advantage over those who don't. As I mentioned in another thread these things are not like a new weapon, they are real game changers. I should point out that at a technical level I like them, they are neat, and I like the idea of managing them in terms of the battery and/or the condition they are in so there is no hate going on here, just a worry about gameplay balancing.

 

Not that I am suggesting everyone should be forced to play a game where there are no advantages, not the case at all, after all we all choose different guns and setups based on our preferences; do you prefer a long range sniping weapon up on a hillside or perhaps roaming town with a much closer range SMG? Do you like the magnum with more kick or the FNX with more ammo in the clip? All these things add to the subtle balancing of the game. However compare that to playing on the night server with one person having NV and/or IR and the other person not. The difference there is not subtle, it's massive, with the advantage too greatly applied. At least, imo.

 

Perhaps this doesn't apply to you as you will only play daytime servers, and that's fair enough, I'm not judging you for it, however for me night time adds a whole new dynamic to the game and I think it'll look absolutely lovely once flares are implemented. However implementation of NV/IR would certainly limit my game time to the daylight hours. It was a particular bug bear from playing the mod on certain servers when, at night, you'd join and there would be maybe 10 or 12 players. Of those 8 or so would be long term server regulars who had geared up and were carrying NV and would use them specifically to hunt those without them. I don't want to be restricted purely to daytime servers due to the odds being too heavily stacked against me, I love the idea of night time play as it's almost a new game in itself and adds a lot to the immersion.

 

Anyway, I hope I have given a fair argument for not including these items. I appreciate that if we want the world to be realistic then in all fairness they should be included but in terms of balancing the game I think they would have too much of an impact.

[Mopa 44]

Didnt read the thread, just voted. Its way to over powered. Dont care about "realism" I care about balance. Realism is unattainable anyways. 

[-MadTommy 367]

No no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no  no no.

 

TLDR: No.

[rickyriot 1009]

Didnt read the thread, just voted. Its way to over powered. Dont care about "realism" I care about balance. Realism is unattainable anyways. 

 

If you had read my post it would have reflected pretty much what you are saying, just adding in the reasoning behind that.

[Pete1601 37]

My opinion is that this could be balanced, at the moment there are to many players on night time servers turning gamma right up to counter darkness.

 

The night vision goggles would give people the incentive to play fairly however to balance it out, you could make them require batterys that even at pristine condition need replacing after 30 minutes.

 

Thus your balancing it so even people with this vision need to go hunting for items to maintain the advantage.

[Pvt Dolin 137]

I agree with Pete1601's opinion.

But nice thread and argument so far. 

[rickyriot 1009]

My opinion is that this could be balanced, at the moment there are to many players on night time servers turning gamma right up to counter darkness.

Personally I think these are two separate issues and should be dealt with separately. I believe it's providing a false dichotomy to say they should be implemented to stop people turning up the gamma. 

 

..you could make them require batterys that even at pristine condition need replacing after 30 minutes.

 

You would hope that if they are implemented they should be balanced like this, however look at how long a battery lasts in a torch. I don't think I have ever had a battery run out on me.

Edited February 17, 2014 by ricp

[irl-calibre 744]

with all servers being perpetually a summers afternoon, not much point really - I still voted yes though.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

I voted yes,but in my opinon,it should be extremlly rare to find and loot one.

[iBane 381]

This is a tough one.  Yes, NV/IR would be a big advantage, but with a 10-12 hour (or thereabouts) night cycle this would be one way to fight the gamma exploit and give people a reason to play servers with night cycles.  

 

Personally I don't use the gamma exploit, but I have a very limited amount of time I get to play so I nearly always opt for daytime-only servers because I get more out of my gaming minutes during daytime.   

[rickyriot 1009]

with all servers being perpetually a summers afternoon, not much point really - I still voted yes though.

 

Not all servers are perpetually summer.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I do question your reasoning behind it. Essentially you are saying you will never encounter the imbalance problem but you are happy for it to exist for others.

 

Still, as I say, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect your vote.

[Pete1601 37]

"You would hope that if they are implemented they should be balanced like this, however look at how long a battery lasts in a torch. I don't think I have ever had a battery run out on me."

-This

 

I dont think after leaving one on a M4 by accident it ran out even after 3 days of playing.

 

Like alot of things in this game the degrading system seems to need work, however if they are going to implement something like this maybe they could fix the batterys at the same time.

 

Just a thought :)

 

Edited February 17, 2014 by Pete1601

[Ghostflux 100]

In my opinion night vision is required, simply to encourage people to play on night time servers as well. Of course it should be extremely rare. Because it's such a big advantage, it would encourage people to gang up on that person.

[rickyriot 1009]

In my opinion night vision is required, simply to encourage people to play on night time servers as well.

 

In my opinion, and in fact in my experience, NV/IR has the opposite affect. On mod servers if you were to join a server at night the majority of people on there are already equipped with them and if you don't find them in daytime you don't bother going on at night.

In fact I feel the only way to genuinely get people playing the game at night, is to balance the gameplay and for me having them implemented doesn't do that in the slightest.

[mareak 50]

Should put in the game and it should run on battery. Once turn on there should be a percentage of how much battery left. So you have to conserve the power and use it only when needed. The night is just so pitch black! You cant even see your own character. I adjust the brightness and gamma but it look like shit. 

[Obscura (DayZ) 33]

Not all servers are perpetually summer.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I do question your reasoning behind it. Essentially you are saying you will never encounter the imbalance problem but you are happy for it to exist for others.

 

Still, as I say, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect your vote.

He means all of the populated ones, go ahead and search for a night time server that has at least 25 people in it. I actually enjoy the night cycle/darkness, but I haven't been able to find a consistently populated server with a decent night cycle. They all seem to go up to about 15:00-16:00 hours and then restart, lame. 

 

Aside from that, I say yes to NV(as long as it's VERY rare to find) and no to IR. 

Edited February 17, 2014 by Obscura

[rickyriot 1009]

The night is just so pitch black! You cant even see your own character. I adjust the brightness and gamma but it look like shit.

I don't want to be stating the obvious but the level of light at night is based on cloud cover and the moon. In the mod you ended up having the darkest times between sunset and moonrise at night and moonset and sunrise in the morning. In the middle of the night and with no cloud cover and a moon high in the sky you had a pretty decent level of visibility - not IR/NV of course, but definitely enough to deal with localised navigation and combat.

I do agree that the gamma issue needs looked at though. I'm not going to call it a "cheat" as it's too emotive a term, but I do think the levels of gamma available should be reduced. Especially as we now have torches.

He means all of the populated ones, go ahead and search for a night time server that has at least 25 people in it. I actually enjoy the night cycle/darkness, but I haven't been able to find a consistently populated server with a decent night cycle. They all seem to go up to about 15:00-16:00 hours and then restart, lame.

I agree, it disappoints me to see so many lamecore daytime servers being packed while hardcore and a full night cycle being much less. I don't believe adding in NV would make them more popular though.

Edited February 17, 2014 by ricp

[fitzee 248]

Hi.

 

I don't like to be the antagonist, but why would people complain about the unbalance of NVG's in a game where groups of heavily armed players prey on the unarmed?

 

There is absolutely no balance in DayZ. Balanced PVP only exists in games where you spawn with full gear, in DayZ you need to find your gear before there will be any sense of balance. Even then a lone wolf has to deal with squads of 2-10 players. Is that what you all consider balanced PVP? :facepalm:

 

They are about as balanced as having a teammate heal you from near death in a few seconds mid-battle.

 

The vast majority of players won't even enter servers during the night anyhow. I say bring on the NVG's, it might even get some players willing to play at night.

 

Regards.

[smoq2 221]

Voted "Yes", however:

 

• I'd hate it to go as far as adding thermal vision. I believe this would just be too much.
• They should be an ultra rare, hive controlled spawn. Like max. 2-3 items of such should exist in one server at any given time, regardless of on ground or in player inventory.
• Require multiple batteries to run and eat them up like crazy. Max. 20-30 minutes of constant work on a fully charged set.

 

Anyway, I remember reading something about the devs having a similar idea as the OP, so I guess NV/IR won't make an appearance in the end. :)

Edited February 17, 2014 by retro19

[Obscura (DayZ) 33]

Hi.

 

I don't like to be the antagonist, but why would people complain about the unbalance of NVG's in a game where groups of heavily armed players prey on the unarmed?

 

There is absolutely no balance in DayZ. Balanced PVP only exists in games where you spawn with full gear, in DayZ you need to find your gear before there will be any sense of balance. Even then a lone wolf has to deal with squads of 2-10 players. Is that what you all consider balanced PVP? :facepalm:

 

They are about as balanced as having a teammate heal you from near death in a few seconds mid-battle.

 

The vast majority of players won't even enter servers during the night anyhow. I say bring on the NVG's, it might even get some players willing to play at night.

 

Regards.

Lol those first few days when SA came out were gold, darkness everywhere, dozens of fresh spawns navigating through elektro with flashlights. ahh :D

[TwinSpire 49]

dunno night vision is a highly technical piece of technology...  I highly doubt once broken they could EVER be fixed in a "real" apocalypse setting.  

 

How rare would be rare enough?  With loot farmers, multiple ways to dupe etc imo it is just an item that is not needed and more trouble then it is worth.

 

Just my opinion but NV is not a solution to night issues.  While I respect the idea of "realism", this is an area where I think it hinders the game.  Well especially right now where a lot of servers run GMT.  If I get up and game 3am to 6am or so I can actually play during the "day".  Really hope more servers adopt timezones at least.

 

Ether make it semi decent to see at night (not as good as gama, but not as bad now), or reduce the day/night cycle to something where you can either wait it out and do something reasonable/worthwhile (rest/sleep, inventory tetris, craft etc).

 

If you wanted to be a realist... most proper survival people wouldn't dare try to fully operate at night unless they absolutely have to.  Way too dangerous just walking, could twist/sprain an ankle etc.  

 

NV goggles ultimately is a piece of technology that doesn't really have much a place in post-apocalyptic setting.  It would just be another step to making a plain jane Battlefield mmo. 

Edited February 17, 2014 by TwinSpire

[rickyriot 1009]

Hi.

 

I don't like to be the antagonist...

You are not being antagonistic. If I am to put forward an argument I should be able to defend it.. :)

 

..but why would people complain about the unbalance of NVG's in a game where groups of heavily armed players prey on the unarmed?

 

There is absolutely no balance in DayZ. Balanced PVP only exists in games where you spawn with full gear, in DayZ you need to find your gear before there will be any sense of balance. Even then a lone wolf has to deal with squads of 2-10 players. Is that what you all consider balanced PVP?

 

I feel you have misjudged my post, and by quite a bit. I am in no way arguing for a balanced PVP, in fact I set out a paragraph explaining that a level of imbalance is necessary within the game, it's the level of disparity that I am questioning. The argument that it's unfair as you can have 10 people ganging up on 2 is not in context in regard to having NV/IR. You are arguing oranges with lemons.

 

The vast majority of players won't even enter servers during the night anyhow. I say bring on the NVG's, it might even get some players willing to play at night.

 

How much of the mod did you play? I am not trying to give the "I'm more experienced than you, so my opinion counts more" argument, not at all, merely just wondering how many times you played the mod which had NV/IR implemented and if so did you frequent servers running a full day/night cycle. The reason I ask is that from my experience, and that goes back almost 2 years, people don't frequent night cycle servers specifically because it is populated by those who are equipped with NV/IR. It's from that viewpoint that I make my argument that adding them will have a detrimental effect and in fact reduce the likeliness of people playing night cycle servers, creating mini fiefdoms ruled by those with NV/IR.

With that in mind I feel your argument is incorrect.

 

Edited February 17, 2014 by ricp

[irl-calibre 744]

Not all servers are perpetually summer.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I do question your reasoning behind it. Essentially you are saying you will never encounter the imbalance problem but you are happy for it to exist for others.

 

Still, as I say, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect your vote.

 

I am a huge fan of night time play m8, always have been, even when people cried away from night time in the mod cause of NVG's and Thermal scopes, you would still find me in the thick of it with nothing but a torch.. All  my regular hardcore servers I frequent now run pretty much perpetual day time - back to dawn on server restart, you show me one server that is night time with 5 or more players on it, normal or hardcore and I will eat the hat i'm wearing on my head at the moment..

Edited February 17, 2014 by Calibre

[infiltrator 275]

Yes. The whole night is going to be adjusted so it will not be spec ops vs blind as a bat type of matchup.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Infiltrator

[rickyriot 1009]

I am a huge fan of night time play m8, always have been, even when people cried away from night time in the mod cause of NVG's and Thermal scopes, you would still find me in the thick of it with nothing but a torch.. All  my regular hardcore servers I frequent now run pretty much perpetual day time - back to dawn on server restart, you show me one server that is night time with 5 or more players on it, normal or hardcore and I will eat the hat i'm wearing on my head at the moment..

 

I play the (hardcore) experimental servers these days so I can't really comment regarding the stable branches. I think a lot is also down to the alpha build, it's just easier to reset the server for loot and zombies at the same time restarting the time cycle. I am hoping zombie and loot respawning will resolve this a little. 

I share your exasperation at the lack of popularity of full day/night cycle hardcore servers, it really is a shame and while I am ambivalent in regard to whether private hives should exist, one benefit is the ability to find a well run and well populated hardcore full day/night cycle server.