Can you treat the axes with a little more respect?

[jubeidok 495]

With realism being a big theme behind this game, can we add some of it to melee? Especially the axes. Axes are kind of heavy, you are not going to be swinging them repeatedly with enough force to cause damage beyond bruising. A swing and a miss could mean deadly consequence, especially on a downward thrust. And no, you are not going to be swinging an ax while on the run. Try it, I dare ya.

 

What am I proposing?

 

- Ad some weight and cool down time to the animation 

- Players should have to set their feet if they expect accuracy and a deathly blow -or- running charge up, with the ax held above the head, but it's a single downward thrust with mass force behind it, but with a longer cool down time

- A chance of self injury for a swing and a miss, along with follow through that pulls you view off target 

 

Thoughts?

[colekern 1364]

I like it, but I think it can wait for now. Hopefully, we'll get entirely re-vamped melee weapons later in the alpha (Hopefully with the ability to go right-handed.)

[AP_Norris 1018]

They need jab shots, and full force blows.

Swinging with your full force should have you loosing your orientation, speed and force you into a longer cooldown time.

Jab shots should cause smaller amounts of damage and be more of a suppressing effect on your enemy, forcing him to block to avoid a bleeding and face shots, with the possibility to blur, blind a knockout with temple shots.

Things like shovels should also allow you to use the bladed side.

But, axes should also allow use of hammer/ spike/ flat edge.

[jubeidok 495]

I like it, but I think it can wait for now. Hopefully, we'll get entirely re-vamped melee weapons later in the alpha (Hopefully with the ability to go right-handed.)

 

Ya, I hope what they have in there now is really just placeholder. Because it looks and feels very primitive.

[jubeidok 495]

They need jab shots, and full force blows.

Swinging with your full force should have you loosing your orientation, speed and force you into a longer cooldown time.

Jab shots should cause smaller amounts of damage and be more of a suppressing effect on your enemy, forcing him to block to avoid a bleeding and face shots, with the possibility to blur, blind a knockout with temple shots.

Things like shovels should also allow you to use the bladed side.

But, axes should also allow use of hammer/ spike/ flat edge.

 

Having different types of swings would be cool, a little more complex, but cool. Ever play Dead Island? The melee system in that was really cool, but I don't see this game getting that deep with melee, but we can hope.

 

Ya, switching what end you're attacking with on the fireman's ax could be controlled with the spacebar, instead of raise and lower. The spike end being better for penetrating thicker clothing and vests or something like that.

[Demoth 366]

With realism being a big theme behind this game, can we add some of it to melee? Especially the axes. Axes are kind of heavy, you are not going to be swinging them repeatedly with enough force to cause damage beyond bruising. A swing and a miss could mean deadly consequence, especially on a downward thrust. And no, you are not going to be swinging an ax while on the run. Try it, I dare ya.

 

What am I proposing?

 

- Ad some weight and cool down time to the animation 

- Players should have to set their feet if they expect accuracy and a deathly blow -or- running charge up, with the ax held above the head, but it's a single downward thrust with mass force behind it, but with a longer cool down time

- A chance of self injury for a swing and a miss, along with follow through that pulls you view off target 

 

Thoughts?

 

Running and swinging is currently the only effective strategy against someone trying to gun you down, so taking that out would mean that hitting a player with a charging swing would have to be an automatic kill / incapacitation.

 

My very first gunfight involved a guy who hit me 3 times with a fire axe. It jacked me up, but it didn't kill me and I shot him to death. Let's be real though, if someone buried an axe into you, swinging it full speed and it connected, you're going down. Even if the edge is blunt as hell, that's a small surface area that is being swung and is quite top heavy. If it didn't cleave your arm off, it'd certainly be breaking bones that no splint or morphine shot would be fixing up outside the span of months.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Maybe 'stances' that affect how you attack with the weapon, or rather how you hold it.

IE Turn the Wood splitting ax around and you can knock someone out rather than put a blade in their neck

Jab with the Shovel to use the blade like a spear

Swing with the shovel like an ax to hit with the blade

swing with the flat so you knock someone out

Stabbing with knives/bayonets to do more damage but slower

slash would be faster but less damage than a full on stab

jab someone with a tip/point of many weapons (bat, ax heads ((the top of the ax)) ect) to push them back/do minor damage, IE keep that unarmed out of punching range so you don't have to outright kill them.

Many many examples and I feel like I'm rambling at this point.

[jubeidok 495]

Running and swinging is currently the only effective strategy against someone trying to gun you down, so taking that out would mean that hitting a player with a charging swing would have to be an automatic kill / incapacitation.

 

My very first gunfight involved a guy who hit me 3 times with a fire axe. It jacked me up, but it didn't kill me and I shot him to death. Let's be real though, if someone buried an axe into you, swinging it full speed and it connected, you're going down. Even if the edge is blunt as hell, that's a small surface area that is being swung and is quite top heavy. If it didn't cleave your arm off, it'd certainly be breaking bones that no splint or morphine shot would be fixing up outside the span of months.

Well, that's kind of the point. It shouldn't be effective at all unless you surprised them, closed the distance without them knowing and scored a clean hit. In that case, yes, I would agree with you that should be it for that player. But if you happen to turn and react quick enough and cause them to swing at air, there should be no ensuing Benny Hill type chase. Bang!

[blackberrygoo 1416]

Ya we definitely need better melee , they have been Buffing it up with better sounds but we still need a total revamp eventually . You can't even swing inside a building with a semi- low ceilin without hitting the walls or ceiling . And I think an advanced stamina system would make melee much more realistic , like everyone's saying it will make your character lose balance on hard swings and fatigue to the point of not being able to attack .

[KerrSG1 113]

Until other melee weapons become worth using, don't touch the axes.

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

I agree!

I also think when using a melee weapon RMB does a horizontal swing.

There is no need to zoom while swinging an axe.

Having an alternate attack would fit nicely IMO 

and would help with the silly dancing around each other during melee fights.

Edited February 15, 2014 by TEST_SUBJECT_83

[Atmosphere 4]

So, you're telling me you can't run and swing an axe in real life? Are you an uncoordinated kid with down syndrome or...?

[Jokeysmurf 4]

With realism being a big theme behind this game, can we add some of it to melee? Especially the axes. Axes are kind of heavy, you are not going to be swinging them repeatedly with enough force to cause damage beyond bruising. A swing and a miss could mean deadly consequence, especially on a downward thrust. And no, you are not going to be swinging an ax while on the run. Try it, I dare ya.

 

What am I proposing?

 

- Ad some weight and cool down time to the animation 

- Players should have to set their feet if they expect accuracy and a deathly blow -or- running charge up, with the ax held above the head, but it's a single downward thrust with mass force behind it, but with a longer cool down time

- A chance of self injury for a swing and a miss, along with follow through that pulls you view off target 

 

Thoughts?

Although I think repeated swings with a heavy melee weapon in game should tire you out, Im part of a historical recreation group and I can guarantee you that swinging an axe around like this in the game really isn't a huge issue when you are used to the heft. Granted not all survivors are lumberjacks or firefighters, but to be honest the attacks that you can make with these axes aren't that tough to make with little to no chance of self injury or a need to set a stance/ surprise attack. Im sure things will totally change once they implement ragdoll mechanics too.

[bobotype3334 160]

Maybe the splitter should have greater heft than the lighter fireman's axe, even to the point of being as heavy as the fixe extinguisher, whereas the fire axe can be made rarer and stay how it is, because the swinging of the fire axe seems pretty realistic, apart from the fact the Survivor is a demigod who can run kilometres without tiring and swing a pipe wrench ad nauseam [only to break both legs falling 200 cm].

But what is really needed is a more action-movie oriented system for melee weapons. If sharp, they can get stuck in an enemy's body, especially the swung weapons like axes. You can choose to let go of the weapon by swinging again, which leaves it in the wound and allows you to run away; or attempt to pull it free from the zombie's ribcage while its fellows paw at you. This encourages weapon choice diversity and makes zombies a slightly tougher enemy due to even in death being able to take away your sharp weapons. Sticking in wounds won't happen every time, but there's a 1 in 10 chance that when you hit a zombie with something bladed and heavy it's going to lodge nice and deep in there.
 

[bobotype3334 160]

So you can stab a zombie in the face with a pen, and it just grinds in deep in that cartilage of the face.

[jubeidok 495]

Ah, so many pretenders out there. You can act as tough and able as you want, but no, you cannot repeatedly swing an ax while on the run. It defies the laws of physics. Now I'm sure there are men strong enough to do it with minor effectiveness, but the last I checked the survivors aren't built like strongmen that can tow a rig. 

 

An ax is not like a katana blade, where you can swing it side to side quickly and effectively.

 

Keep in mind that I am not asking for a stamina system, as like others have pointed out, we can run forever so we should also be able to swing away for ever. It only makes sense. What I am saying however, is there there is no time between swings, no follow through on misses, no resetting to your forehand. Think of it as when you are chopping wood, You swing down, you heave it back up and reset for another swing. It takes time, it's not instant like it is in the game. You can swing away at something with the ax just as rapidly as you can with the machete. I feel that is wrong and requires some adjustment. 

Edited February 17, 2014 by JubeiDOK

[Artophwar 42]

The whole melee weapons system needs an overhaul. Fire Axes are not combat weapons, they are designed for chopping away at structures. You pull back and chop, then you reset. Running and swinging with an Fire Axe desont work in real life, the weapon is completely unbalanced for that kind of action.  Obviosuly if it hits a person it would do serious damage but you couldnt re-swing as fast as a machete or baseball bat. I would much rather use a baseball bat in real life than a Fire Axe becasue you can swing a baseball bat much more effectively and efficiently while moving.