Weapon Damage and the Undead

[savini 587]

First things first. This isn't a thread complaining or talking about current damage models. All those threads are...elsewhere, being how they be. Certainly no one would just read the title and nothing else.

 

Now that that is out of the way, I'm curious to see where my fellow community members stand on this topic. As fans of Day Z and zombie lore in general...do you think that, in the future of course, there is a place for this well known flaw of the undead? Or should it be relegated to the movies. After all, this is still a game.

 

Personally I'm of the mindset that any type of ammunition should be able to kill a zombie with one headshot. Some of you may remember the makarov and how weak and useless it seemed to feel. I think 9mm and up should be a one headshot kill. A .22 on the other hand...I don't know. I'll leave that up to you bullet junkies.

 

I also think that most bladed melee weapons should be a one or two hit kill, to the head. Maybe a few more swings with blunt weapons.

 

And finally, I think that we should leave the headshots to the movies. Meaning that torso shots are still able to take down a shambling horde. Obviously it would take a bit more to kill a zed below the head. I am for this option as it makes the learning curve less steep. I think it would be cool to be able to join a "headshot only" server though, so long as it's optional. I'd be all over that shit...but I'm a lore junkie :P

 

What do you guys think?

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

Bullet in the head is death

Shovel in the head is death (give a propability rate for meele headshot damage to fail to kill is more apropriate)

Regardles of survivor/infected.But because the current zombies are just infected living and breathing,not lifeless corpses,where a diesease has taken control of their brains and gave instructionns to the neurons to start walking again,just as us healthy people they have their internal organs running so if you shoot straight for their hearts,(realisticly)they should still be preety dead.Yet i presumably would love to raise the danger factor,making them extremly durable to any damage

beside the head.

 

"Edited some parts"

Edited February 14, 2014 by Damnyourdeadman

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

I am one of those people who voted yes for everything.

 

My opinion is that having to get a head shot to kill a zombie would make them much more threatening, especially when there are more of them, and I feel this would be fine if the movement and pathing zombies use now remains the same (barring obvious glitches like running through walls) because it's not at all difficult to get a head shot on them. If the zombies moved and pathed the way they did in the mod, which is to say very quickly and erratically, I would change my last vote.

 

One caveat I must add, however, is that knocking them down should not be very hard. Melee attacks, "shoves" (if we ever get them), shots to the legs, shotgun blasts to the chest and so forth should knock over these shambling monsters in order to leave a viable avenue of escape for those who might struggle to get the head shot.

Edited February 13, 2014 by DarkwaveDomina

[Hutch (DayZ) 116]

Rocket has said in the past that the "Infected" aren't dead or undead. They are living but infected with a brain virus.

Therefore as easy to kill as any human, give or take, with an increased pain tolerance.

[savini 587]

Rocket has said in the past that the "Infected" aren't dead or undead. They are living but infected with a brain virus.

Therefore as easy to kill as any human, give or take, with an increased pain tolerance.

 

Oh my...I wasn't aware of this. That would certainly change things from a lore standpoint. This goes back to the "virus vs. undead" arguments from around the time 28 Days Later came out.

 

Still though, I'm curious to see how the community views our collective menace. Now I'm wondering if anyone has a preference for virus or undead...and if so, would we like to see a change that allows for the above poll, or if we should leave it alone.

 

In the end it's up to Rocket, but it's good to have these kinds of conversations.

 

imo

[GrappleX 354]

I only voted nay for the first question. I think *most* weapons  should be one hit kills to a zombies head. A rusty shovel or old baseball bat, on the other hand, should take 2 or 3 hits.

[louist 163]

I can see a shovel failing to kill with a smack to the head, but a decent hit with a bat? I can see that doing some real damage.

[-Gews- 7443]

They should have the exact same "health" as players do. It could be argued the infection has made them weaker and easier to kill, but on the other hand it could also be argued it has made them resistant to pain and harder to kill. I don't want to see pathetically weak zombies or undead superhumans so I say split the difference and make them equal to a hungry fresh spawn.

[pacific_coast 632]

massive props to you rhodes.

this is the kind of thread we need.

 

i voted yes to headshots by firearms and yes to brain kills only.

 

but since "ROCKET'S VISION IS AT STAKE@@11!"

 

sigh. whatevs. infected humans then.

 

an actual "zombie mode" with shuffling, moaning, decaying, flesh eating, gotta-shoot-em-in-the-head-type zeds would be epic.

truly epic.

 

day is one of the best. but i'm a dawn fan meself.

operator dead, post abandoned...

[xRann 126]

They should have the exact same "health" as players do. It could be argued the infection has made them weaker and easier to kill, but on the other hand it could also be argued it has made them resistant to pain and harder to kill. I don't want to see pathetically weak zombies or undead superhumans so I say split the difference and make them equal to a hungry fresh spawn.

+or- a bit either way over the mass of zombies to cause some randomness. But yeah, ^this.

[FixTheFernBack 3]

I don't think one shot to the head should kill all zombies, maybe the civilian ones. But there are also the military zeds, some of which even feature helmets, which should be able to take more damage.

[savini 587]

I don't think one shot to the head should kill all zombies, maybe the civilian ones. But there are also the military zeds, some of which even feature helmets, which should be able to take more damage.

 

True, I didn't think about the military zeds. I'd say an extra hit or to with melee weapons, but as far as firearms goes...I'd say all firearms would be single headshot kills, even for them. Helmets are good for protecting against debris, and potentially deflection, but a direct shot would still go straight through.

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of "special infected" or something along those lines...I guess what I'm saying is I'd prefer a more "realistic" experience. (yes, I'm aware of the absurdity of talking about realism in a zombie game) :P

 

I understand where you're coming from though. You brought up a good point with the military zeds that I had totally forgot about.

 

This is good stuff fellas!

[lipemr 160]

if they were normal peeps, they would die after 30 mins of server uptime of thirst and hunger, wouldnt they?

 

Only heart and head shots to kill instantly, 3 shots to the heart, 1 to the head, if you shoot other organs, zombies should die in let's say... 15 minutes.

 

People that want them easy to kill are the ones that dont want them in game at all (aka KoSers/DeathMatchers), just my 2 cents.

[savini 587]

I don't think they would bleed out. Though I think a shotgun blast to the legs ought to drop them to the ground indefinitely.

 

Fast crawling zeds...that would be freaky as shit.

[willhelm 85]

i'd like to just say this quickly, "zombies" are possible in real life, but they should/will never, ever be stronger than their original human forms in dayz senses. Because let's be honest, all they are, are just a bunch of decayed human bodies.

 

Although you may think they're "zombies" and they're the "walking dead" they still need circulation of blood in order to actually do anything. Of course I know that they're the "dead revived" and all but seriously, what are these things powered by? Magic? if so that doesn't seem very realistic. At the moment I very much appriciate the fact that shooting them in chest (as long as it hits the heart/) kills them. 

 

I'm glad this isn't reddit, the amount of dislikes i'd get from hardcore players would be unbelievable, but just remember, this game isn't suppost to be "hardcore" or "easy" it's suppost to be realistic, which tends to be easy in some respects, and very very difficult in others. :P it's basically a mix

[spartanxapathy 203]

As far as the first option goes, I voted no, Just because you hit a Z in the head once does not mean you crushed his skull, esp if you are hungry/dehydrated, etc.

[louist 163]

if they were normal peeps, they would die after 30 mins of server uptime of thirst and hunger, wouldnt they?

Only heart and head shots to kill instantly, 3 shots to the heart, 1 to the head, if you shoot other organs, zombies should die in let's say... 15 minutes.

People that want them easy to kill are the ones that dont want them in game at all (aka KoSers/DeathMatchers), just my 2 cents.

That hardly fits with the lore, where these are mentally impaired, hyper aggressive "infected" humans who still breathe, bleed, and rely on our biological processes to function, regardless of their heightened pain tolerance.

That is to say, what would kill a human, would kill a "zombie," whether it be a headshot, destroying organs, blood loss, or otherwise. Hell, it seems to be something of an oversight that you can't cripple them by breaking their legs.

[Pvt_Larry (DayZ) 98]

Voted yes on the first 2- you'd be surprised just how easy it can be to crack some skull. Bladed weapons and most blunts at least. Maybe the hunk of wood doesn't do so much damage, but if you really wind up with that baseball bat I think you could kill with one blow. But a no vote on the last because of the whole "infected human not living dead" argument.

 

Only thing with the zeds is that I'd prefer them to be your cliche stumling/shambler type zombie that move in large groups rather than the runners we've sort of had. At least they don't sprint like dayz mod and 28 Days Later. Just my two cents though.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Pvt_Larry

[savini 587]

As far as the first option goes, I voted no, Just because you hit a Z in the head once does not mean you crushed his skull, esp if you are hungry/dehydrated, etc.

 

 

True, I meant to specify melee weapons in that first option.

 

Some good discussion going on as well. It's good that we've got some civil point/counterpoint going on.

 

I'd like to hear more from some of the guys who voted 'no' for option two.

 

Also, do you guys think .22 caliber weapons should be an option or no. I'll be devil's advocate and say yes on account of hunting. If we take out a bunny with an sks I doubt there'd be much left to salvage. Then again, it seems the only use a .22 would have would be to hunt small game. On the flip side, if .22s were prevalent along the coast for freshly spawned players it would give them a basic ranged weapon.

[xRann 126]

Also, do you guys think .22 caliber weapons should be an option or no. I'll be devil's advocate and say yes on account of hunting. If we take out a bunny with an sks I doubt there'd be much left to salvage. Then again, it seems the only use a .22 would have would be to hunt small game. On the flip side, if .22s were prevalent along the coast for freshly spawned players it would give them a basic ranged weapon.

Depending on range, 22 is still very much lethal. Mob pistol of choice for a long time to execute people. Rifle just increases the range of lethality.

[Mdogg2005 447]

Good topic, good thread, good poll options.  I'll be back for sure.

[savini 587]

I just thought of something from a 'mechanic' standpoint.

 

If zombies became a headshot kill with all firearms, would it work by adding more power to the firearms? or would one have to lower the threshold of the zed? I hope that makes sense...in my head it does.

 

So what I'm getting at is how it affects other interactions. So if you up the damage a pistol can do...does that then transfer to pvp? And would it therefore muck with the ballistics?

 

Or if you drop the health of the zed, does that therefore make them much easier to kill with say...a baseball bat?

 

It seems that there would have to be some kind of balance...tough choices. Obviously I have a lot to learn when it comes to development decisions.

 

What do you guys think, or which would you choose if it were up to you?

[Deathlove 2286]

To be honest if zombies are just going to be virus riddled ppl they should just make them die from standing out in the rain to long. Am i right? Cause i feel like ppl just want the easy way out of killing zombies just anywhere on the body so they can continue there crap fest pvp mode play lol.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Deathlove

[xRann 126]

To be honest if zombies are just going to be virus riddled ppl they should just make them die from standing out in the rain to long. Am i right? Cause i feel like ppl just want the easy way out of killing zombies just anywhere on the body so they can continue there crap fest pvp mode play lol.

not "just going to be" always have been. They aren't zombies in the Romero sense, they are infected ala 28Days Later. Generally these two terms are interchangable, but they are very different.

Edited February 15, 2014 by xRann

[Deathlove 2286]

not "just going to be" always have been. They aren't zombies in the Romero sense, they are infected ala 28Days Later. Generally these two terms are interchangable, but they are very different.

Still if your going to make them lame and take one bullet shot on any part of the body to down might as well make them get sick like player from doing dumb shit like standing in the rain and die.