Game Development Priorities

[jaginun 87]

I was gonna make an entire essay out of this, but I figure it's better to let you guys chime in on this.

 

There are a lot of threads criticizing the new 30 second combat logging prevention put in game, as well as the 240 second server switch wait. I don't have a problem with this in particular, it's annoying but I'm sure it would work. The problem I have is that they are putting this in rather than other things a game in such early development. Things like this should be the last thing to be implemented, they are supposed to be putting in actual gameplay features before controlling how players use them. This is especially prevalent in this type of game, where everything is left up to what the player community makes of it.

 

Instead of this they should be, in my opinion, implementing loot respawns (I know this is being worked on, I just figure it should have had a higher priority). This would not only fix the bugs coming along with the constantly restarting servers, but also fix the server hopping for obvious reasons. It really makes little sense to put in anti-abuse methods before the game is half done, because there are no guarantees that those problems will be prevalent in future versions.

 

In my opinion, I would rather see these issues ignored if it meant performance and content features were being prioritized. I would also like to point out, I do realize the role people buying the game in this state are taking, and that we are the ones being treated well, and the developers owe us nothing in the way of listening to our views, just in case anyone was thinking of bringing that up.

 

I'll make this a poll to see the pure numbers for and against my view.

[excitable1 156]

hopping and combat logging were big issues.

 

they were right to take the time to put the timers in.

[-MadTommy 367]

Combat logging, server hopping & ghosting are IMO game breaking exploits.  And need to be addressed from the get go.  So i'm surprised they are only approaching a system to combat it now.  IMO it should have been in place before the alpha went public.

Edited February 10, 2014 by MadTommy

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

People were exploiting the current loot system,jumping from on server to another.They had full gear in a matter of seconds.

We should be gratefull that we get to keep our charachter on every server we go,yet people still found a way to break the system.

OP it was top priority,because combat logging-loot exploiting were the No1 to-bitch-about topics on the forum.Now that Rocket put that system,i have yet to see a single complaint.

[soapy.marshall@gmail.com 2]

Why were they such big issues ingame?

 

Surely the performance issues and loot respawns are SLIGHTLY more important than someone changing server or combat logging. These have never really bothered me, if someone logs before I kill them, I move onto someone new. If someone changes server because the loot is rubbish, well I'd do the same, respawning loot would fix that.

 

People who complain about combat logging should consider this is only alpha gameplay and there are a lot more pressing issues on the developers plates right now.

[excitable1 156]

People were exploiting the current loot system,jumping from on server to another.They had full gear in a matter of seconds.

We should be gratefull that we get to keep our charachter on every server we go,yet people still found a way to break the system.

OP it was top priority,because combat logging-loot exploiting were the No1 to-bitch-about topics on the forum.Now that Rocket put that system,i have yet to see a single complaint.

 

actually there are a lot of people whining about it (prob the hoppers and combat loggers).

[Old_Crow_Whiskey 119]

I believe their priorities are right. They're working on incrementally building a strong foundation over which they will pour items and content. It's like building a house where you focus on the foundation, framing, and roof first before installing fixtures.

 

This game is coming about in the exact opposite way that big companies like EA make games, which is by dreaming up a bunch of advanced features that are never fully implemented due to inadequate stability and testing. Then they hype the game to all hell and charge full price for for a beta that they sell you fixes for over the next year before releasing another incomplete game billed as the second coming of Christ. People need to be honest with themselves about all the shit they've put up with from crooked game developers over the years... all the money the've fed these greedy companies... before bashing the day-z developers over their alpha in progress. 

Edited February 10, 2014 by Old_Crow_Whiskey

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

actually there are a lot of people whining about it (prob the hoppers and combat loggers).

Except them,yes you are right,i have caught a glimpse of 1-2 posts making complaints,but none of them had anything to back up their reasoning.

[excitable1 156]

 

People who complain about combat logging should consider this is only alpha gameplay and there are a lot more pressing issues on the developers plates right now.

 

 

by this statement I can only assume you combat log and server hop.

 

and because a game is alpha we cant ask the dev's to fix something that a lot of people find as a exploit?

 

is not the point of alpha to point out exploits and glitches?

 

we pointed out a system of exploit...dev's fixed it.

[sab 32]

Instead of this they should be, in my opinion, implementing loot respawns (I know this is being worked on, I just figure it should have had a higher priority).

 

I can't necessarily say how complex the system is in general, but there could be a number of reasons why Combat Logging/Server Hopping was addressed prior to loot respawning. Keep in mind that just because a feature is completed first, doesn't mean it has a higher priority:

 

- It could have been a lot easier to implement anti-combat logging/server hopping compared to loot respawn and they just wanted to get it out of the way.

- Perhaps there's performance issues that need to be touched up on before loot respawning can be considered.

- Maybe there's been a bigger outcry for a fix to server hopping/combat logging.

 

Nothing else really comes to mind, but I guess the Devs had their reasoning. It's also worth to note that this game is only about a month and a half old... if you look at the changelog from the entire time since it's been released you would notice there has been a lot of stuff fixed/added to the game, quite impressive really. This early on in it's development, they're still working on very big core features while trying to balance it with performance fixes.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Sab

[soapy.marshall@gmail.com 2]

by this statement I can only assume you combat log and server hop.

 

and because a game is alpha we cant ask the dev's to fix something that a lot of people find as a exploit?

 

is not the point of alpha to point out exploits and glitches?

 

we pointed out a system of exploit...dev's fixed it.

 

I don't server hop or combat log. I made the statement because I believe it is true. There are a LOT more pressing issues on the devs right now, not some dumb sod who doesn't want to lose their gear. I didn't say it didn't need fixed, just that it didn't need fixed before more important things were added or fixed.

[jaginun 87]

by this statement I can only assume you combat log and server hop.

 

and because a game is alpha we cant ask the dev's to fix something that a lot of people find as a exploit?

 

is not the point of alpha to point out exploits and glitches?

 

we pointed out a system of exploit...dev's fixed it.

 

I would argue that the point of an alpha is to firstly add in features and build the core mechanics of the game. The Beta process would what I would see fit for adding things in like this. I appreciate some major bugs have to be fixed but this isn't even the devs going on a bug fixing tangent, it's them fixing a superficial community abuse feature which I would wager would only last as a major problem until respawning loot is properly implemented.

 

 

- It could have been a lot easier to implement anti-combat logging/server hopping compared to loot respawn and they just wanted to get it out of the way.

- Perhaps there's performance issues that need to be touched up on before loot respawning can be considered.

- Maybe there's been a bigger outcry for a fix to server hopping/combat logging.

 

 

I agree to an extent, however the first point would be obsolete due to the changing game mechanics, and thus if my predictions did come true would be pointless work. And for your third point, as I've said, Developers don't and shouldn't listen to any people whining. Community response shouldn't be an issue at this point, as said on the steam page. I feel that point is better expressed in this video :

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K7i6pCo6aQ‎

Edited February 10, 2014 by Jaginun

[rickyriot 1009]

See before I answer this I would need to see what the priorities actually are. Considering nobody outside the Devs and probably a close circle of friend actually know the development priorities then how are we supposed to say whether they are correct or not?

It's the old Donald Rumsfeld "Known unknowns and unknown unknowns".

Edited February 10, 2014 by ricp

[Gandolaf 81]

You read those warnings,right? This hasn't much to do with priorities, it was just much easier to implement while the other devs work on the more serious issues.

[louist 163]

I don't have an issue, per se, with addressing combat logging and server hopping. It is an issue for the game, but one that I don't think needed to be addressed just yet, when so much more needs to be put into fundamentals.

What I do find odd, is that so many cosmetic and novelty features are being added. Sure, I enjoy having a wealth of choices when it comes to clothing options, and the ability to paint my mosin, but those aren't necessary when we still have so many bugs to contend with, in addition to the partially implemented medical mechanics and so on.

Yes, there are staff working on art assets, and they will need to continue doing so while other features are completed, but given the numerous bugged out structures (seriously, passing through Gorka last night right after server reset, only 2 or 3 of the dozen or so houses were actually spawning loot), they are just adding clutter to the game right now. And the painted mosin bug shows that the features are not just unnecessary, but are adding to the number of bugs.

I'd much rather see the priority given to building the foundations of the game.

As some people have said, server hopping and combat logging are issues for the game. That's true. But it's a gameplay issue for the players, an annoyance. We don't need to deal with annoyances in an alpha. We need to get the mechanics working.

[Dr. Goner 661]

I only get the timer when I try to log into a server that I just logged out of. 

 

I can switch servers without experiencing it. 

 

I think, now you have me questioning my sanity because I thought that feature was implemented to prevent ghosting.

 

EDIT: Also, just from following rocket on twitter, reddit, twitch streams, and here, it seems the main priorities at the moment are zombie and loot respawning. While they work on these larger issues, they are fixing bugs, adding items, and making improvements to the mechanics where they can. Honestly, I play a lot of alpha games and this one is rolling along much better than most.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Dr. Goner

[calabam 55]

Combat logging and server hopping are not game breaking features the current fix for them has spawn a load of other issues which now have to be worked on instead of stuff like game/server performance which would lead to being able to increase spawn rates of items and zombies , also pathing issues and the fact zombies can see you through builds etc are more game breakers than whether you your loot of some guy you KoS. I still feel this game is getting developed like an mod and not a multi million dollar selling game .

[excitable1 156]

As some people have said, server hopping and combat logging are issues for the game. That's true. But it's a gameplay issue for the players, an annoyance. We don't need to deal with annoyances in an alpha. We need to get the mechanics working.

 

it also lets us check the mechanics of the game..if a weapon has horrible accuracy, how are we to test it if every time we are about to fire the gun the person disappears?

 

I know not everyone log's, but imo (and a lot of others also) it was a much needed improvement to the game.

 

possibly they have a weekly meeting highlighting things they would want to implement.

 

they then go through the list to see what things are easy to implement and what will take some time to do.

 

something like adding a timer could have taken a hour to do. not taking a lot of dev time.

 

also putting in a working timer can also help for loot re spawn( dont like the idea personally), as the timer should be relatively the same I would think.

[excitable1 156]

I still feel this game is getting developed like an mod and not a multi million dollar selling game .

 

if they totally changed the game people would say this is not dayz but something completely different.. so they must stick to the way the mod is to a certain degree, while making enough changes so people dont say this is just the mod, only we had to pay for it.

 

its a fine line too far one way people complain..too far the other way, well you know.

[rickyriot 1009]

I don't have an issue, per se, with addressing combat logging and server hopping. It is an issue for the game, but one that I don't think needed to be addressed just yet, when so much more needs to be put into fundamentals.

What I do find odd, is that so many cosmetic and novelty features are being added. Sure, I enjoy having a wealth of choices when it comes to clothing options, and the ability to paint my mosin, but those aren't necessary when we still have so many bugs to contend with, in addition to the partially implemented medical mechanics and so on.

Yes, there are staff working on art assets, and they will need to continue doing so while other features are completed, but given the numerous bugged out structures (seriously, passing through Gorka last night right after server reset, only 2 or 3 of the dozen or so houses were actually spawning loot), they are just adding clutter to the game right now. And the painted mosin bug shows that the features are not just unnecessary, but are adding to the number of bugs.

I'd much rather see the priority given to building the foundations of the game.

As some people have said, server hopping and combat logging are issues for the game. That's true. But it's a gameplay issue for the players, an annoyance. We don't need to deal with annoyances in an alpha. We need to get the mechanics working.

 

Without wishing to sound harsh, I don't think you really grasp how development is done. You've touched on it to an extent with the "there are staff working on assets .. but given the numerous bugged out.. etc" line, but the bottom line is that the major issues with the game (certain show stopper bugs and serious improvements like loot/zombie respawn, buildings and vehicles, etc) will take much longer and will be getting worked on concurrently and not by those doing what you consider the "clutter".

As I said in my previous post nobody outside the devs have a proper overview of what is being worked on, by whom and how long that will take.

[deepfried 95]

Look, we can't really know what the development priorities are, just because we see something in a patch doesn't mean its there because it was a priority.  Priority might be engine and server work but thats not something the art guy can do, so he keeps working on textures or whatever.

[cj14 189]

I think those timers are not quite right the way to stop combat log and server hops, but fuck...they do help a lot until they find a better solutions :) keep up dev team  :beans:  :beans:  :beans:  :beans:  :beans:

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

People who server hop and combat log are not even playing the game, ergo they are not testing anything. Furthermore when someone makes a thread about how the new mechanisms are unfair or unproductive I question their motives, without exception.

[xRann 126]

Considering combat logging and ghosting/hopping has been an issue since the beginning of the mod, yes "fixing" it or at least implementing what was done was important. To someone coming in "cold" without having experienced the mod it may seem like it's a minor issue, if even one. Since all servers are enforced to be public the ability to have either have a passworded or a private hive aren't options. A major exploit (temp?) patch is good for the health of the players and testing.

 

As for "priorities", we simply do not know what they are, how often they change, and who is working on want to assume any real knowledge of their priorites. What information we've got about any aspect must be taken as a "grain of salt". As more builds come, much more will be implemented and with that we will begin to see the fruits of their labors and can then make conjecture about where their priorities were.

[fede042@gmail.com 12]

Making the game more fluid should be rocket's top priority. Every character in the game moves like a disabled old man with Parkinson's. The jump vault doesn't work sometimes unless you press the button repeatedly, switching weapons doesn't work and when you switch weapons while running and want to stop moving in the middle of it, you can't because it's an ongoing animation. Also, ragdolls instead of death animations.