To those who dislike the new combat logging timer

[hatesauce 99]

But i would say that this is a VERY VERY slow paced game, its not like COD or BF where 30 seconds is probably the difference between life and death, Every life on this game should be taking you hours, days and even weeks to die. Out of all that time you spend in the game i don't think finding a good hiding spot for 30 seconds is too much to ask.

 

Exactly right. The system only punishes people looking to abuse it. If I find a secluded/hidden area to logout and it takes minutes to actually leave the game, so be it. If I die because of it so be it - realistically if I am not paying attention there is a risk either way (alt tabbing etc), The only downside is switching servers because of various preferences and having to wait, but even then this is at little cost compared to what we gain from battling exploiting ghosters and combat loggers.

Edited February 5, 2014 by hatesauce

[xRann 126]

The logout timer was done to stop combat logging. The 5 minute login timer was done to stop hopping/ghosting. Don't confuse the two courses of actions and the two methods of abuse.

[hatesauce 99]

Well its a shame you feel that way, it is a bit extreme but anything less would not deter combat logging.

 

I look at combat logging as another risk vs reward kind of thing. With this current system the risk far outweighs the reward.

 

I think if you were to give people evenmore control over their character during the timer then the reward starts to become greater then the risk and hence more and more people start doing it.

 

Not to mention ghosting.

[LeChat 131]

Server hoppers and ghosters could easily be prevented by just using a login timer rather than keeping the character in the game for 30 seconds. So using that as an example or as a reason is just plain bad. And as for CL I personally I understand why they implemented it and I agree that it would have be to solved somehow... but I don't agree with this band-aid solution. Why?

Because it prevents people who haven't engaged in combat to actually log out when they want, as it is now I have to plan to log out because I need to run somewhere where I can logout where I'm fairly sure no one will see me and wait there for a while to make sure that no one sees me or that someone was following me that I was unaware of and then logout and hope I don't get killed while doing so. This is a process that spans over minutes and you know what? Even if no one was following me I can have the bad luck of someone just stumbling across me (I admit, it's not very likely but there is a chance and I couldn't prevent it, cause I couldn't control my character) and since the general rule seems to be KOS - I'll probably end up dead. And dying because of something as stupid as that? Yeah,that just spells bad design choice all over it. Not entirely sure how to fix it properly, but I don't see this as a proper solution - just some half-assed attempt to solve something without thinking.

 

The reason why I dislike it is because in a game such as DayZ, there shouldn't even be a minimal chance to die by chance from pure game design. Fuck it, they can just add a 0.001% chance that your character dies everytime you log out. Or even 0.00001% chance that it happens - it is just as stupid. With more players, more zombies, roaming zombies (not sure if those will exist), aggressive animals (if they're going to be aggressive that is) - no where is actually going to be "safe". And for the sake of all that is holy, don't argue realism - because it's not realistic. But I guess it is what it is and I'm going to stand by my point of view in 6 months, 12 months or 5 years if I still play this game and it's still their 'solution' to this problem - cause I can't see it as good design if I can die in a situation where I have no control over it (and don't even try to compare it to dying from desync or lag, cause that's not implemented by choice).

[scaramoosh 162]

I don't like it, I never server hop but it is just another feature there to make my experience less enjoyable. To me this is just like DRM, benefits no one, just harms legit players...

 

I've never come across a server hopper, I've barely come across hackers either in the mod. I've come across a lot of combat loggers, but I've won at that point, I don't care, I just move along and never stay in one place.

[Jack Dant 158]

Ok, let's be honest here. You don't die in this game every 30 seconds of playtime. You don't even die every 10 minutes unless you are exceptionally bad at it. Even a mad run into Elektro tends to last longer.

 

I'm pretty sure I could log off in the top room of a jail building at NEAF 10 times and only die once. Compared to the risks our characters run every second we play this game, sitting still somewhere outside of view for 30s is incredibly safe.

[africanhungergames 192]

Server hoppers and ghosters could easily be prevented by just using a login timer rather than keeping the character in the game for 30 seconds. So using that as an example or as a reason is just plain bad. 

 

You have completely missed the point.

 

Have you never shot at someone and they have logged out, that is combat logging. A log in timer will not stop that.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Agree but simple solution is you have to be seated...

 

Then people will be right back here complaining that the need to sit down makes them too vulnerable. That's just kicking the bitch-can down the road.

 

The existing system is fine. Log out in a safe place; it's absolutely not that hard to find one.

Edited February 5, 2014 by ZedsDeadBaby

[fitzee 248]

Hello there

 

Why is this "lazy" feature and if you guys think so, what would be a viable alternative?

 

I dont mind folk not liking the system but lets find possible alternative solutions to push to the devs.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

Hello orlok.

 

I'm probably responsible for the "lazy" comments due to an earlier post calling the log out method "easy lazy" something or other. Don't misunderstand me, I have nothing but respect for the devs.

 

I just call this approach easy and lazy because, well, it was. Easy because it's the easiest solution and lazy because coding something that would only effect people that are actually in combat would take more work.

 

I already know the general response has been, and will be "O he doesn't like the system, must be a combat logger" but, lol I don't combat log, I've been playing the RV engine games for around 13 years and killing players is anything but difficult.

 

Since you ask for ideas, I will repost the idea I've tossed out a few times already.

 

If a player uses his weapon he and his target get a 15 minute combat/PVP flag. Said player and target can not log out while the timer is active. Also if they use their weapon or are attacked during the countdown, it resets back to the full 15 minutes. Last but certainly not least, if they close the game by say alt f4, task manager, game crashes for any reason, or lose internet connectivity, then their character is stuck defenseless in game for the remainder of the timer.

 

I personally think such a system would punish combat loggers a lot more than this 30 seconds does, while not punishing players that aren't in combat at all. I don't even think 30 seconds will do anything, unless people are stupid enough to hit alt-F4 in the middle of the road. Like are people seriously going to rambo their way into a building chasing after someone that knows they're coming lol, any OpF or ArmA PVP vet would put a bullet in yer eye soon as you rounded the corner.

 

Like some others, I feel there isn't really any truely safe places in DayZ and since my goal is to survive as long as I possibly can, getting killed while not actually playing would take a lot away from the game. IIRC Rocket has even said that some animals will have zed-like ai, making the deep woods much less safe than people seem to think.

 

Now with that said, the current anti-combat log mechanism is obviously better than not having one, so h8rs may as well direct their nonsense at somebody else.

 

Sorry for the long-assed post.

 

Regards.

[xRann 126]

Romeo Foxtrot, the problem with flagging the player is that again is going to be another task the server must monitor and run. At the cost of other functions, ai/loot respawns to name just two, you'd be adding workload each time someone fires. Just not a viable option, too resource dependent.

[YassirX 54]

I'm sure that anyone, who finds this new log out timer annoying, will agree that combat logging is way more annoying.

 

Agreed... but I'm still heavily disliking the fact that I have to leave my character exposed for 30 seconds when I log out.

It should defiantly not kick me out of the game session while the timer counts down... that way I could at least react to any possible noises/movements towards my location.

Sure, I'm not logging out at NWAF... but still, it leaves a bad taste not knowing what happens in those 30 seconds.

Edited February 5, 2014 by YassirX

[dallas 5195]

Agreed... but I'm still heavily disliking the fact that I have to leave my character exposed for 30 seconds when I log out.

It should defiantly not kick me out of the game session while the timer counts down... that way I could at least react to any possible noises/movements towards my location.

Sure, I'm not logging out at NWAF... but still, it leaves a bad taste not knowing what happens in those 30 seconds.

However a combat logger could sit in the corner of a room with one eye on the timer and one eye at the doorway. If someone comes to kill him, he can snap out of the log out at kill the other, if the other is a little too slow, the combat logger can escape, when the timer runs out. Instead of allowing people to defend themselves, while logging out, why not forced them to stay until the danger is over?

Edited February 5, 2014 by Dallas

[Karmaterror 982]

 

To this i just wanted to say letting a combat logger control his character for the 30 seconds that he is trying to log out completely defeats the point of the timer. The timer is there to make that person vulnerable for 30 seconds and therefore make the risk of combat logging in most cases too high to take. if he can see and defend himself for those 30 seconds then what is to stop him combat logging, Nothing. Yes this is a burden we will all have to share both loggers and legit players alike but it is a burden most are happy to carry.

 

It would work like in the MOD, move within that 30 seconds and it cancels the logout attempt. You then have to find somewhere else and start it again by hitting abort.

 

But they would just alt F4! i hear people cry....

 

Well use this feature with the old system (wouldn't surpise me if its what they got planned) so if you did alt F4 anywhere, even while waiting for the 30 secs, then you would stay ingame.  30 seconds if its a DC (because you didn't start the timer) and if you were 15 secs into the timer your toon would serve the remaining 15 ingame then dissapear :)

 

EDIT - for "snapping" out of the log out timer...apply sit animation to begin the timer :)

Edited February 5, 2014 by Karmaterror

[fitzee 248]

However a combat logger could sit in the corner of a room with one eye on the timer and one eye at the doorway. If someone comes to kill him, he can snap out of the log out at kill the other, if the other is a little too slow, the combat logger can escape, when the timer runs out. Instead of allowing people to defend themselves, while logging out, why not forced them to stay until the danger is over?

 

Hi.

 

While I'm not in favor of the mentioned log out timer either, if while charging your way into the building like a rambo, you can't kill the logger before he cancels logging out,gets off his ass, and equips his weapon, then you really have no business trying to be a rambo in the first place lol.

 

 

Regards.

[dpfarce 5]

Player A shoots player B

Player B runs into house

 

If player A takes longer than 30 seconds to go into house, e.g. calling friends with telepathy, player B might log off

If player A rushes into house thinking player B has logged off, player B might be camping the staircase and shoot him.

 

 

The system is a step in the right direction, but it isn't foolproof.

[LeChat 131]

 

Server hoppers and ghosters could easily be prevented by just using a login timer rather than keeping the character in the game for 30 seconds. So using that as an example or as a reason is just plain bad. 

 

You have completely missed the point.

 

Have you never shot at someone and they have logged out, that is combat logging. A log in timer will not stop that.

 

I never said that a login timer would prevent CL, I said that don't try and say that the solution is a good solution for: Server hopping and ghosting, cause a login timer is better for that.

What I said was that the solution where my character stays in-game for 30 seconds while I can't do jack shit about it, is a bad or rather a terrible solution to this problem (CL). It's a highly flawed system that needs some serious improvement. Reading comprehension is difficult it seems.

Edited February 5, 2014 by LeChat

[djporternz 644]

Ah I see. Set a 30 second timer while being able to look around per 10min, if it's done again within the 10minutes then it will default back to logging you out completely, leaving you vulnaruable for 30 seconds?

 

Also set a perimeter within 50m or so, if someone comes within that range, the timer goes away, or the timer still works, BUT it keeps your character logged in for another 30 seconds like now? I don't know, just spittballing some suggestions.

Your suggestion is still vulnerable to exploit. Any timer that can be reset by the players action will have this flaw.

 

Remember, the Devs have tried multiple methods of implementation, and while we haven't been told the details of all of them, when Dean tells us that this one is by far the best one for dealing with all three of the main cases with the least impact on processing resources and the side cases, I'm inclined to defer to his experience.

 

The fact that the most vocal opporsition to this feature are coming from the targeted players i.e. those who were using this exploit to their advantage, shows that it is indeed working as expected. The small number whining about being caught up in the side issues i.e. Server errors, BE flakyness or crappy internet connections, are being a little over dramatic. I've been caught a few times, but TBH, 5 mins downtime now and again is turing out to be a net benefit.

 

I'll go as far as to say that this is by far the best new feature in the game to date. It is changing the way everyone approaches this game.

[blueleader 18]

I'll go as far as to say that this is by far the best new feature in the game to date. It is changing the way everyone approaches this game.

Your right and not for the better i feel , it seems peeps are not engaging others to talk  as much as they were and it is having its effects whether it be friendly or foe ,,, peeps  are being very much more cautious  in general and are camping out , which is spoiling the communication between friendly players aspect of the game

[africanhungergames 192]

Player A shoots player B

Player B runs into house

 

If player A takes longer than 30 seconds to go into house, e.g. calling friends with telepathy, player B might log off

If player A rushes into house thinking player B has logged off, player B might be camping the staircase and shoot him.

 

 

The system is a step in the right direction, but it isn't foolproof.

With this system the thought of logging off does not cross player B's mind because it is too dangerous.

 

THAT IS WHY THIS IS WORKING.

 

Its so risky now that player b does not even count combat logging as one off his options and so stay and bandages and prepares for a fight, if player b does choose to try and log while he is having a scrap with someone he deserves death.

[djporternz 644]

Your right and not for the better i feel , it seems peeps are not engaging others to talk  as much as they were and it is having its effects whether it be friendly or foe ,,, peeps  are being very much more cautious  in general and are camping out , which is spoiling the communication between friendly players aspect of the game

It is better because the fact that logging out has a consequence now means that combat logging is dangerous, Ghosting will take longer than it used to, and server jumping for loot is going to take longer than a cross country hike. You can't force paranoid players to interact with each other.

 

I'm not seeing a reduction in the levels of communication between players, but even if there were, I don't see any direct correlation between that and the introduction of the timers. If anything, that is solely down to the 'perceived' notion that everyone is out to KoS everyone that seems to be being reenforced by the media and a certain vocal minority of players.

[SxeDave 7]

Would not surprise me if you have killed me a few times. I died a lot more than usual on those servers for some reason.

Ive been getting into shootouts left and right and finally had a guy get the best of me in the middle of the night with a flashlight on his rifle. Ive only lost 1 character about two weeks old so far but man this is fun!

[djporternz 644]

If a player uses his weapon he and his target get a 15 minute combat/PVP flag. Said player and target can not log out while the timer is active. Also if they use their weapon or are attacked during the countdown, it resets back to the full 15 minutes. Last but certainly not least, if they close the game by say alt f4, task manager, game crashes for any reason, or lose internet connectivity, then their character is stuck defenseless in game for the remainder of the timer.

 

So I use my weapon and get a 15 minute timer. Okay. And if someone fires back they too get a 15 minute timer. But what criteria can you possibly use to flag a target. For the life of me I can't see any that isn't open to exploitation. While it is easy to check when a weapon is used, it becomes nebulous trying to define who it is being used against. This problem becomes exponentially worse when you start increasing range with M4/SKS/Mosin.

 

While it is easy to say 'Just flag players in combat', getting any sort of coherent criteria that is simple to compute and addresses the multiple side issues that can arise is near impossible.

 

If you can think of any criteria that isn't exploitable, I'd be interested in hearing them.

[bobotype3334 160]

Just to put my end in, I just like the sound of a logout timer similar to the Recall feature in, [and I'm sure people will yell "get out filthy casual" here], League of Legends, but a bit longer. Straight up pressing log out will leave you online in that place for 30 seconds, holding down a logout button will put away your weapons, lie you down, and make things slowly fade to black until the 30 seconds are up. Rearming yourself with anything or moving around cancels the timer. Or standing up.

Edited February 6, 2014 by bobotype3334

[Lidskjalf 132]

Get fired at,

back into a corner, 

watch the door,

press disconnect,

keep eye on the door,

if anyone comes to the door,

abort log out and kill him,

if they come to slow,

let the log out time out and escape from firefight. 

 

And this is why people need to pry their comfy asses away from 3rd person servers and play 1st.  They honestly need to implement a "1st person only" patch just to see how the community would handle the gameplay in comparison to floating camera mode.

[Lidskjalf 132]

Just to put my end in, I just like the sound of a logout timer similar to the Recall feature in, [and I'm sure people will yell "get out filthy casual" here], League of Legends, but a bit longer. Straight up pressing log out will leave you online in that place for 30 seconds, holding down a logout button will put away your weapons, lie you down, and make things slowly fade to black until the 30 seconds are up. Rearming yourself with anything or moving around cancels the timer. Or standing up.

 

Well what they could do is once they implement tents/sleeping bags the dev's could require players to actually use the "sleep" function that was NEVER used in the mod.  There you go, authentic and still solves all the above.  Have a 30 second log-out timer but make it a requirement that you need some sort of bed roll/bed to log out.  Players have the option to even sleep the beds of buildings if they haven't found a sleeping bag/tent.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Lidskjalf