The gun problem (and the solution)

[dahamstahh 1]

Okay, so basically, the devs aren't happy with how common guns are. They are kind of everywhere, when in his mind, they were supposed to be quite rare. The solution he has given, and will most likely use is this:make gun spawn locations less common, and make guns spawn less frequently.

It is true, guns are much too common. The solution is, however, rather counter intuitive. Create a TON of guns. Put them everywhere. Thousands and thousands of guns scattered across the map, but make them so that they don't spawn again.

A massive, but finite supply of weapons.

The guns would have to deteriorate quickly. A pristine firearm would take, say, 20-40 days (real time) to deteriorate into a pile of rust depending on how often you use it. Worse condition guns wouldn't even take that long.

Then, every month or so, all the guns would respawn and we would start the process over again. (That way newcomers can stand a chance of living for a while.)

This doesn't just have to be for guns too, it could be for everything. It is a wee bit more realistic, and frankly, I think it would work better.

[cywehner1234 582]

...

 

God help us all.

 

Personally, I think guns like the M4 should be really rare, along with the SKS. Mosin should be kinda common, considering it seems like a civilian weapons.

[Etherious 907]

Ummm...thank you for your feedback, but that would be a bad idea. ._. Too much realism can kill things. lol 

[punkvegita 44]

I was thinking the same thing, make non powerful guns pretty common, than make powered guns really really rare.

[Odahviing 125]

guns should be in places harder to reach eg.: in military bases locked in a locker and you would need to unlock it somehow..or stored in an armory with a lock you need to unlock.  or they could randomly lay in the grass or on the ground around military areas....but probably those would be more ruined than the ones locked inside a building.

 

So people will know where to find weapons....or better said military weapons...but they also need to have the proper materials to reach them. Imo you shouldnt be able to spawn at the beach near balota....run up to the barracks and voila theres an M4 lying on the bed.

[dahamstahh 1]

Ummm...thank you for your feedback, but that would be a bad idea. ._. Too much realism can kill things. lol 

This shouldn't be done for the sake of realism, it should be done to solve the fact that guns aren't valued enough. It is simple economics, when the supply goes up, the demand goes down. Making the supply of guns finite (as opposed to infinite) will create massive demand almost overnight. 

Plus, with a really high demand, I believe that the players may create some sort of market, however loose it may be, in which they can trade guns, food, medical supplies, e.t.c.

[crazykage 1063]

My rebuttal:

I say keep the gun spawns where they are at currently. I searched the entirety of NWAF and found nothing but a single revolver in the firestation. Once I finished searching at Bashnya facility, the server restarted. So I said fuck it and searched again. This time I found a single FNx45. I searched EVERY building at NWAF TWICE and found one gun each time. I LIKE that fact.

What I do think needs to be adjusted is ammunition. I think THAT should be exceedingly rare. Finding a single 5.56 under the desk of a barracks should be a gift from God. 7.62 should be rare, but not quite as rare as the 5.56. Pistol/revolver ammo next most common, while shotgun should be yet more common (slugs being rarer than buck), followed lastly by the most common: 22 lr (should be fairly easy to find, and only because it would be the perfect hunting round for when such is introduced, while being fairly unreliable at taking down a well equipped player).

I seriously think that if you find a single 5.56 round somewhere, than it must be your birthday (consequently, the accuracy of an M4 would also need to be improved).

This would force all players to consider very carefully the consequences of firing a shot at another player, and even force them to reconsider the value of even CARRYING a gun in the first place, knowing that ammunition is scarce, and the extra inventory space could be used for something else.

Consider:

M4 is highly accurate, and an empty mag can be attached to the gun. But ammunition is quite rare. Being held up by a player with an M4 becomes a game of calling their bluff. What if BOTH players have M4s but no ammo? A standoff ensues as both players weigh the odds of getting shot as the swap to their axes.

Rare ammunition would be rewarding for the KOSers because the effort of finding ammunition and pulling off a successful kill will heighten the experience (for those who "hunt", like me), while deterring the type of KOSing wherein players treat the game like little more than a sluggish game of CoD, spraying and praying about like panicked 12 year olds that got their hands on daddy's AR.

Player interaction will be enhanced severely as fewer players would be willing to shoot off their hard earned ammunition unless they REALLY had to, or REALLY wanted to, forcing them to engage opponents in other means, and most importantly, with more INTELEGINCE.

[cheesus18@hotmail.com 5]

My rebuttal:

I say keep the gun spawns where they are at currently. I searched the entirety of NWAF and found nothing but a single revolver in the firestation. Once I finished searching at Bashnya facility, the server restarted. So I said fuck it and searched again. This time I found a single FNx45. I searched EVERY building at NWAF TWICE and found one gun each time. I LIKE that fact.

What I do think needs to be adjusted is ammunition. I think THAT should be exceedingly rare. Finding a single 5.56 under the desk of a barracks should be a gift from God. 7.62 should be rare, but not quite as rare as the 5.56. Pistol/revolver ammo next most common, while shotgun should be yet more common (slugs being rarer than buck), followed lastly by the most common: 22 lr (should be fairly easy to find, and only because it would be the perfect hunting round for when such is introduced, while being fairly unreliable at taking down a well equipped player).

I seriously think that if you find a single 5.56 round somewhere, than it must be your birthday (consequently, the accuracy of an M4 would also need to be improved).

This would force all players to consider very carefully the consequences of firing a shot at another player, and even force them to reconsider the value of even CARRYING a gun in the first place, knowing that ammunition is scarce, and the extra inventory space could be used for something else.

Consider:

M4 is highly accurate, and an empty mag can be attached to the gun. But ammunition is quite rare. Being held up by a player with an M4 becomes a game of calling their bluff. What if BOTH players have M4s but no ammo? A standoff ensues as both players weigh the odds of getting shot as the swap to their axes.

Rare ammunition would be rewarding for the KOSers because the effort of finding ammunition and pulling off a successful kill will heighten the experience (for those who "hunt", like me), while deterring the type of KOSing wherein players treat the game like little more than a sluggish game of CoD, spraying and praying about like panicked 12 year olds that got their hands on daddy's AR.

Player interaction will be enhanced severely as fewer players would be willing to shoot off their hard earned ammunition unless they REALLY had to, or REALLY wanted to, forcing them to engage opponents in other means, and most importantly, with more INTELEGINCE.

 

I would usually agree with you that guns aren't that easy to find, but a few days ago I came across 6 m4's in a trip up the West Coast, though I only found 4 magazines between 2 of us. I do prefer the idea of rare ammunition like you said, it would definitely be more realistic. I mean once the zombies have overrun the army, guns would be everywhere but most of the ammo would have been used or taken by the surviving soldiers. I think it'd be painfully great to only find 3 bullets at a time. So you either really have to make those shots count or use something else!

[crazykage 1063]

^He gets it...

[Element47 2480]

Okay, so basically, the devs aren't happy with how common guns are.

please provide a source for the assumption, that devs dont like the current availability of guns at current stage

 

you do realize that loot and thus gun rarity has not been balanced yet, thus current situation is nothing to be happy or not happy with, as its a pure work-in-progress. Currently, guns - and any loot for that matter - are thrown at us testers in arbitrary amounts for the sake of testing.

so yes - the devs are happy with how common guns are now - because now they need a lot of guns to test the mechanics and gather data. this has nothing to do with how rare they will be when loot spawns, rarity and item decay will be balanced in the beta

Edited February 3, 2014 by e47

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

1) Guns are at the moment easy to find because (and here it comes again) it's an Alpha and we, the players, should not only play but help them find bugs, exploits etc. and test the things that are thrown at us.

1) a) Every time a new gun is added to the Alpha, it will befound very often & easy due the given reason, while the other guns are not so common anymore (e.g. Magnum)

 

2) A hive-wide spawn-NoSpawn (for a given time) is - as fair as I can guess - not planned nor wished by the Devs (regarding the things saif about hives, loot etc.)

 

3) As Dean Hall stated: As soon as improvised weapons are available (throwing weapons, bows, etc.) military weapons will be super-rare.

 

 

We conclude: Nice suggestion, will not happen as far as i can tell.

 

 

 

Edit: Ninja'd again by e47 :(

Edited February 3, 2014 by LaughingJack

[dahamstahh 1]

My rebuttal:

I say keep the gun spawns where they are at currently. I searched the entirety of NWAF and found nothing but a single revolver in the firestation. Once I finished searching at Bashnya facility, the server restarted. So I said fuck it and searched again. This time I found a single FNx45. I searched EVERY building at NWAF TWICE and found one gun each time. I LIKE that fact.

What I do think needs to be adjusted is ammunition. I think THAT should be exceedingly rare. Finding a single 5.56 under the desk of a barracks should be a gift from God. 7.62 should be rare, but not quite as rare as the 5.56. Pistol/revolver ammo next most common, while shotgun should be yet more common (slugs being rarer than buck), followed lastly by the most common: 22 lr (should be fairly easy to find, and only because it would be the perfect hunting round for when such is introduced, while being fairly unreliable at taking down a well equipped player).

I seriously think that if you find a single 5.56 round somewhere, than it must be your birthday (consequently, the accuracy of an M4 would also need to be improved).

This would force all players to consider very carefully the consequences of firing a shot at another player, and even force them to reconsider the value of even CARRYING a gun in the first place, knowing that ammunition is scarce, and the extra inventory space could be used for something else.

Consider:

M4 is highly accurate, and an empty mag can be attached to the gun. But ammunition is quite rare. Being held up by a player with an M4 becomes a game of calling their bluff. What if BOTH players have M4s but no ammo? A standoff ensues as both players weigh the odds of getting shot as the swap to their axes.

Rare ammunition would be rewarding for the KOSers because the effort of finding ammunition and pulling off a successful kill will heighten the experience (for those who "hunt", like me), while deterring the type of KOSing wherein players treat the game like little more than a sluggish game of CoD, spraying and praying about like panicked 12 year olds that got their hands on daddy's AR.

Player interaction will be enhanced severely as fewer players would be willing to shoot off their hard earned ammunition unless they REALLY had to, or REALLY wanted to, forcing them to engage opponents in other means, and most importantly, with more INTELEGINCE.

I like that idea a lot actually. One question though, wouldn't it kind of snowball? I mean, say I have one round, you have two. I kill you, get two rounds. Then I kill 2 people and get 5 rounds. The way around the idea of wondering if the other player has ammo is to shoot first. You would generally (if you choose your targets right) at least get your bullet back, maybe more. 

[libertine 351]

Guns got much harder to find in the experimental branch. Im a little unsure on this issue. I prefer people to have guns that i see and is why i don't hide bodies or extra weapons as it makes the game harder and its a little easier to bandit hunt when they can fire at you. Thats how sad the situations is for players playing realistically and not as a genuine mass murderer. Im also not convinced guns would be all that rare in most areas.

[Bits (DayZ) 3]

I would usually agree with you that guns aren't that easy to find, but a few days ago I came across 6 m4's in a trip up the West Coast, though I only found 4 magazines between 2 of us. I do prefer the idea of rare ammunition like you said, it would definitely be more realistic. I mean once the zombies have overrun the army, guns would be everywhere but most of the ammo would have been used or taken by the surviving soldiers. I think it'd be painfully great to only find 3 bullets at a time. So you either really have to make those shots count or use something else!

 

^ this.

 

I played many hours over this past weekend, went from the east coast to NWAF twice, and never saw a gun.  ANY gun.  And this on a low-population server, and after a fresh restart.  I did, however, find a significant amount of ammo (12ga, 5.56, 7.62, .357, and .45).  Found magazines, bayonets, weapon lights, bipods, and comps.

 

But no guns.

 

From the perspective of this game being about the zombie apocalypse, I think it makes a tremendous amount of sense that hardware is fairly common, but consumables are rare -- so having lots of empty guns laying around makes sense to me.

 

I think it also makes sense that the most common guns and ammo would be the ones that were produced in the highest numbers, and for the longest period of time -- namely, the Mosin and 7.62x54R.

 

Finding a bunch of M4s (or .45s, or .357s) on an island with Russian names is just... lame.

[MagneticToast 102]

Gun spawns should be everywhere and anywhere...but far less frequent. They should spawn in houses they currently don't. It shouldn't be - oh all guns are are at airfield, gotta go there.

[jasher11 67]

My rebuttal:

I say keep the gun spawns where they are at currently. I searched the entirety of NWAF and found nothing but a single revolver in the firestation. Once I finished searching at Bashnya facility, the server restarted. So I said fuck it and searched again. This time I found a single FNx45. I searched EVERY building at NWAF TWICE and found one gun each time. I LIKE that fact.

What I do think needs to be adjusted is ammunition. I think THAT should be exceedingly rare. Finding a single 5.56 under the desk of a barracks should be a gift from God. 7.62 should be rare, but not quite as rare as the 5.56. Pistol/revolver ammo next most common, while shotgun should be yet more common (slugs being rarer than buck), followed lastly by the most common: 22 lr (should be fairly easy to find, and only because it would be the perfect hunting round for when such is introduced, while being fairly unreliable at taking down a well equipped player).

I seriously think that if you find a single 5.56 round somewhere, than it must be your birthday (consequently, the accuracy of an M4 would also need to be improved).

This would force all players to consider very carefully the consequences of firing a shot at another player, and even force them to reconsider the value of even CARRYING a gun in the first place, knowing that ammunition is scarce, and the extra inventory space could be used for something else.

Consider:

M4 is highly accurate, and an empty mag can be attached to the gun. But ammunition is quite rare. Being held up by a player with an M4 becomes a game of calling their bluff. What if BOTH players have M4s but no ammo? A standoff ensues as both players weigh the odds of getting shot as the swap to their axes.

Rare ammunition would be rewarding for the KOSers because the effort of finding ammunition and pulling off a successful kill will heighten the experience (for those who "hunt", like me), while deterring the type of KOSing wherein players treat the game like little more than a sluggish game of CoD, spraying and praying about like panicked 12 year olds that got their hands on daddy's AR.

Player interaction will be enhanced severely as fewer players would be willing to shoot off their hard earned ammunition unless they REALLY had to, or REALLY wanted to, forcing them to engage opponents in other means, and most importantly, with more INTELEGINCE.

i like the idea of the 2nd part, but i still find weapons a bit too common, i havent seached NWAF super recently but in the most recent patch i have found 3-4 M4's, a metric tonne of mosins, shotguns and quite a few pistols

[skyline-gtr 130]

Did we all miss the part where the guns are actually finite because they dont respawn ?

[Capo 323]

the reason guns are so common now is because many people are hopping, instead of staying on the one server. Well at least that's one of the reasons. 

Edited February 3, 2014 by Capo

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Okay, so basically, the devs aren't happy with how common guns are.

 

When did they say this? They said the M4 would be less common, but there's going to be dozens more guns and weapons added to the game.

 

 

They are kind of everywhere, when in his mind, they were supposed to be quite rare.

 

Said who? When?

 

 

A massive, but finite supply of weapons.

 

That would be complex to implement and it would definitely not work. The game would be a bloodbath for a month and then nobody would play anymore.

[SFRGaming 718]

Okay, so basically, the devs aren't happy with how common guns are. They are kind of everywhere, when in his mind, they were supposed to be quite rare. The solution he has given, and will most likely use is this:make gun spawn locations less common, and make guns spawn less frequently.

It is true, guns are much too common. The solution is, however, rather counter intuitive. Create a TON of guns. Put them everywhere. Thousands and thousands of guns scattered across the map, but make them so that they don't spawn again.

A massive, but finite supply of weapons.

The guns would have to deteriorate quickly. A pristine firearm would take, say, 20-40 days (real time) to deteriorate into a pile of rust depending on how often you use it. Worse condition guns wouldn't even take that long.

Then, every month or so, all the guns would respawn and we would start the process over again. (That way newcomers can stand a chance of living for a while.)

This doesn't just have to be for guns too, it could be for everything. It is a wee bit more realistic, and frankly, I think it would work better.

I looked at this seriously until I read the deterioration part. Now I have no respect for this. Guns in real life don't turn into dust after 20-40 days.

[dahamstahh 1]

I looked at this seriously until I read the deterioration part. Now I have no respect for this. Guns in real life don't turn into dust after 20-40 days.

Obviously. The reason that would have to be in place is that if the guns lasted for longer, new players would never get them. It would be completely unfriendly to someone who bought the game a year after its release. I wish that didn't have to be a factor, but I cannot see any other way around the new player thing.

[Alfons 0]

My rebuttal:

I say keep the gun spawns where they are at currently. I searched the entirety of NWAF and found nothing but a single revolver in the firestation. Once I finished searching at Bashnya facility, the server restarted. So I said fuck it and searched again. This time I found a single FNx45. I searched EVERY building at NWAF TWICE and found one gun each time. I LIKE that fact.

What I do think needs to be adjusted is ammunition. I think THAT should be exceedingly rare. Finding a single 5.56 under the desk of a barracks should be a gift from God. 7.62 should be rare, but not quite as rare as the 5.56. Pistol/revolver ammo next most common, while shotgun should be yet more common (slugs being rarer than buck), followed lastly by the most common: 22 lr (should be fairly easy to find, and only because it would be the perfect hunting round for when such is introduced, while being fairly unreliable at taking down a well equipped player).

I seriously think that if you find a single 5.56 round somewhere, than it must be your birthday (consequently, the accuracy of an M4 would also need to be improved).

This would force all players to consider very carefully the consequences of firing a shot at another player, and even force them to reconsider the value of even CARRYING a gun in the first place, knowing that ammunition is scarce, and the extra inventory space could be used for something else.

Consider:

M4 is highly accurate, and an empty mag can be attached to the gun. But ammunition is quite rare. Being held up by a player with an M4 becomes a game of calling their bluff. What if BOTH players have M4s but no ammo? A standoff ensues as both players weigh the odds of getting shot as the swap to their axes.

Rare ammunition would be rewarding for the KOSers because the effort of finding ammunition and pulling off a successful kill will heighten the experience (for those who "hunt", like me), while deterring the type of KOSing wherein players treat the game like little more than a sluggish game of CoD, spraying and praying about like panicked 12 year olds that got their hands on daddy's AR.

Player interaction will be enhanced severely as fewer players would be willing to shoot off their hard earned ammunition unless they REALLY had to, or REALLY wanted to, forcing them to engage opponents in other means, and most importantly, with more INTELEGINCE.

I FUCKING LOVE IT!

Big thumbs up -

[thedogfoodyayho 295]

Main problem RN is M4 Magazines are to common and always spawn full. Empty magazines, and ammo spawning more like Mosin ammo should be implemented soon, possibly after the AK-74M.

Mosin ammo itself is fine, but scopes should be rarer, forcing people to use the rifle as, well, a rifle, instead of a Sniper rifle. Mosins are also to common.

Shotgun shells should be virtaully everywhere, and shotguns should be more common.

.357 ammo is to common and gun is OP

FNX Ammo and especially magazines are to rare and gun is Under-P.

[Munchermanjz 36]

^ this.

 

I played many hours over this past weekend, went from the east coast to NWAF twice, and never saw a gun.  ANY gun.  And this on a low-population server, and after a fresh restart.  I did, however, find a significant amount of ammo (12ga, 5.56, 7.62, .357, and .45).  Found magazines, bayonets, weapon lights, bipods, and comps.

 

But no guns.

 

From the perspective of this game being about the zombie apocalypse, I think it makes a tremendous amount of sense that hardware is fairly common, but consumables are rare -- so having lots of empty guns laying around makes sense to me.

 

I think it also makes sense that the most common guns and ammo would be the ones that were produced in the highest numbers, and for the longest period of time -- namely, the Mosin and 7.62x54R.

 

Finding a bunch of M4s (or .45s, or .357s) on an island with Russian names is just... lame.

Just keep in mind, the game arma did exist, and there was a story in it, and even things you see in chernarus tend to point to the idea that this is based on the same thing, I think Rocket and the other devs are just tying the game to what they used to make it, and in Arma, there was US involvement in the area. If anything, just because an area is russian, you can't assume things like M4s simply can't be there.

[DMentMan 707]

not a good idea