Adjust your head for a better experience.

[Intactus 128]

Many times during my two years of Dayz i've been wondering what exatly is the thing that gets me hooked so badly since i've NEVER liked shooting games in general. I've never in my life played one round of CS etc. The one and only shooter i waded through was the first STALKER when a good ballistics/damage mod came about. I ate that shit up but that's about it.

What is it that ultimately makes this the BEST action game i've ever played?

Number one:
This Cumbersome character/mouse/everything handling in the game.
(Go ahead, laugh away but it's true.)

Couple days back i bumped into my former army instructor at a bar. We had a beer and a little chat. To my suprise he turned out to be a long time Arma player and playing DayZ aswell. It was scotch from that point on. Shit, he even told me some mechanized units are nowadays using VBS2 as a training tool with the same environments we drilled irl. The army nowadays... =D

We discussed many aspects of the game until i said something along the lines that "The controls are still as shitty as ever thou" in which he replied with bewildered and utterly annoyed expression.

You see, i'm sure there isn't a one action game dev who hasn't played Half-Life, battlefield of crysis.
It is not by accident or incompetence that we have such a sluggish char behaviour.
It's fully intended and the reason is to make combat dependent of, not one's skill in playing fast paced video games, but the players actual competence in desicion making, tactical choices and keeping his head straight in tense situations.

Let me explain:

The pace in which things happen ingame (Arma->DayZ->SA) are more or less averages of standard soldiers performing these fuctions, which allows our brain to process and react to these things at a pace close to real life. People with these skills irl are able to effectively bring them ingame, assess the situations at a pace they've been trained to and deploy action accordingly. No other GAME does that.

That's the reason why a group of trained military personnel play arma game much more effectively than a group of Elite CS players. Have you ever seen armed police officers apprehending a dangerous subject? There's really no dashing around or any hollywood shit going on. They move calmly, talk nicely but still keep the situation firmly in control. (Like meeting an armed bambi ingame, really) like That's exactly why a Korean kid on Red Bull isn't the scariest possible adversary in this particular game and i like it.

Take away your leet gamer glasses and look at it this way: This shit is so tense, scary, unpredictable, unforgiving and most of all so FUN because even in combat, you get to deal with other people's skills in areas well beyond point and click.

Slow down, take a breath and THINK what you are doing!
The game gives you opportunity so USE it and emerge victorius.

Protip: If you are on the move, you turn MUCH faster ingame, even if just taking a single walking step it's a fraction compared to 180 degrees standing still.

Number Two:
Realistic weapon parameters/ballistics/dmg.
(Does not apply atm but i'm sure they fix it up at some point)

I have shot pretty much everything in our infantry arsenal from the flare gun to the heavy anti-tank launcher, suffered through their respective trainings along with all common soviet materiel, even conducted some trainings myself.

The point is that when i play a game with guns, i expect them to somehow reflect their real life counterparts so i can make my choices based on my (more or less) limited knowledge. When i play a game where that tacticool submachine gun with red tribals on it somehow outpowers the .308 i have, the only viable solution is uninstalling. I surely hope they don't deviate far from realistic gunplay with the SA.

Number Three:
You. Yes, you.

I've played DayZ mod since the beginning and it's the first ever online game i've played. Later i got into Arma/Wasteland etc. but for me it's always been about DayZ. The social aspect is amazing.
I don't even think playing this game "against you" but "with you". Kendo is highly aggressive full contact combat/sport but i never think of practicing 'against' the people in the dojo, but 'with' them, even when we are fighting without giving in an inch. There would be no Kendo without those other people practicing, as there wouldn't be Dayz without those other people.

I respect you. You are the reason i play this game. I may kill you, or deceive you, or drive your Bus in the ocean but i still respect you and i want it to show. Don't be assholes people.

There is no other game like this, and whatever reason keeps YOU playing it, remember that this game would not exist without that other dude in your sights. By all means pull the trigger, do whatever you want, but try to keep the douchebaggery to a minimum is all i'm saying.

Number four:
It's ALPHUR!

In the early days of the mod people had little knowledge and things were constantly changing as the game evolved. People were friendly and scared and amazed and murdering and fighting and surviving and it was awesome. At some point we got used to everything, things settled down and everybody had done everything so along came the servers with 500+ vehicles, loadouts etc. to combat the boredom.
 
 Right now we are living the same "early days" with the SA. Loads of new people pouring in all with different mindsets, playstyles and expectations. It feels fresh even thou i've done this all hundreds of times before in the mod. I bet two years from now many of you remember this alpha/beta period being the most amazing time there ever was. =)
 
So there, most of these things are the things i see people raging about all over the forums when in fact there's a lot of good things coming out of them as well.

Don't be so anal about everything people!
The game will get finished and you will be bored to tears eventually so why not enjoy it while it's fresh!

Edit: Grammar.

Too long to read? - Nevermind, this post wasn't for you.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Intactus

[stolenbanjos 110]

Some very good points, beans for you my man.

[Hethwill_Khan 233]

Thanks, good read.

 

I think the controls can be refined. Sometimes the overuse of leans and twitches in the code skeleton provokes some awry unrealistic moves. I would compare it to the flight simulators when they try to reinvent the wheel and code in independent arms for cockpit control sides... idea is good, but they mess up the implementation.

 

On the basis we have the movement okay and needs refinement. Guns and projectiles are somewhat acceptable at this point, but I am with you. Credibility on the gameplay gives us a virtual sensation of reality counterpart.

 

Good read man.

[lordopeth 274]

Good read man.  Refreshing to say the least. 

 

Beans man! :)  :thumbsup:  :beans:

[DeatHTaX 1217]

You see, i'm sure there isn't a one action game dev who hasn't played Half-Life, battlefield of crysis.

It is not by accident or incompetence that we have such a sluggish char behaviour.

It's fully intended and the reason is to make combat dependent of, not one's skill in playing fast paced video games, but the players actual competence in desicion making, tactical choices and keeping his head straight in tense situations.

 

 

F**k yea. I would hope so

 

 

Anyway, you are absolutely right. This game at this stage (and more than likely in the future) doesn't always reward the one who is the quickest shot, or has the 1337est skills.  In tough firefight situations, it's the one who keeps a level head and doesn't make the wrong move first who will end up on top

 

this in and of itself makes the game so awesome.

[Intactus 128]

Oh, damn... Thanks everyone.

And hell yeah the controls sorely need a shit-ton of refinement and polish, along with many, many aspects of the game.

I just wanted to underline the fact that when this game doesn't handle like the Unreal Tournament, it's not by accident. It was made that that way on purpose, and there's a valid reason for it.
If we ever get to a point where running and bunnyhopping through electro is more efficient than spending 20 minutes crawling, it takes away a MASSIVE chunk of what makes this so awesome.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Intactus

[Intactus 128]

Hell i'd LOVE a button to blindly spray half a mag over my shoulder or left/right in case of someone giving a chase or creeping up just to have some spontaneous fast movements for certain situations. It would be awesome.

[fitzee 248]

Hi.

 

WoW OP, you have so much commonsense I gave you 2 cans of beans.

 

Regards.

[spartanxapathy 203]

Have all the beans! :beans:  :beans:

 

Thank you for making an intelligent forum post about what makes this game one of the best.

Edited January 31, 2014 by SpartanxApathy

[Vanrick 7]

Oh man I think we all know what this game would be like if movement was similar to Battlefield 4. It would be a twitch shooter like the other 407 and it would kill everything DayZ is really about. Smart assessments and decisions (maybe a bit of luck) are needed to be successful in Chernarus.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Vanrick

[OrLoK 16186]

Hello there

 

Interesting post indeed.

 

My only caveat is on the movement/avatar control front.

 

My true self has full control over most of its movements and most basic tasks I do without thinking.

 

I think that should be reflected in avatar control.

 

I dont want to be able to jump 10 feet or run at 30mph like one can in most games but my bugbear with OFP/VBS/Arma/DAYZ is the avatar control.

 

DAYZ and A3 have refined it somewhat but I still feel im fighting with the game when maneuvering.

 

Folk use to bandy about the argument that in Arma you are loaded down with kit so its "realistic" and to some degree the argument stood, but in DAYZ, IMHO its especially galling. (TBH in full kit, I can be fully mobile in seconds once i quick release some gear)

 

Regardless, nice post!

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[blueleader 18]

beans sent nice read

 

Pitting your whits against every thing and every body and the environment of the game, is what makes this game thrilling and  fun,,

 

The danger and threat of been killed and the exhilaration of  winning a fight, or even the excitement of finding the loot you have to find to survive.or protect your self,

 

Even the moral code that you choose to exercise within the game adds greatly to the experience, it may be good, bad, or a mixed bag ...YOU get to choose how you play, and you either enjoy the results or suffer  the consequences of poor decisions or just poor dam luck ,,,,,and if you manage to successfully navigate across the map then this could be more thrilling for some than any other experience

 

but all in all  this put together make for a great game

[Gunner McStecki 2]

Solid post, agreed on all counts.  Beans to you.

[Intactus 128]

I dont want to be able to jump 10 feet or run at 30mph like one can in most games but my bugbear with OFP/VBS/Arma/DAYZ is the avatar control.

 

DAYZ and A3 have refined it somewhat but I still feel im fighting with the game when maneuvering.

I wholly agree with this. It feels fighting mostly because of the unresponsiveness. Once some animation has started, Standing up for example, there's no canceling it etc.

I think it would do wonders to make it all more dynamic so you can actually start moving WHILE getting up from ground etc. Do two/more things at the same time and get rid of the awkward pauses so you get the feel and feedback of actually controlling your character.  None of that shit that nail you to ground no matter what. (Switching a raised weapon to a melee weapon, anyone) That shit gets you killed and is detrimental to gameplay.

Shedding your gear fast would be amazing idea.

In a perfect world there would be a sytem where the weight and the gear slow you down. Rocking a pistol and hoodie you'd get to be faster and more agile than in full assault gear.

Then when you see someone jacking your Skoda across that street you could simply shed all your shit that instant for that extra speed and make a dash for it, miss by 2 seconds and come back to witness a silhouette of some poor sod sprinting down the street with your pack in his hands. =D

I mean, it really cannot be perfect for EVERYONE that's a given. I can move well in kit and god knows i held the company record on the obstacle course for three years but some kind of balance between realism and good gameplay will be essential to achieve.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Intactus

[TLChicken 0]

Well said. Beans for you!

[wild_man 4442]

guys like me who coming from CoD and counter strike to dayz without arma experience feeling confuse by movement control system :huh:

 

CoD and CS are twitch shooter is different genre of game :)

 

day have big map some time slow pace and is true decision you making have more effect because if you make wrong move is not single tap to correct :o

 

control system and mouse in this game is perfect for this game WHEN YOU GETTING USED TO :thumbsup:  ;)

 

there are too many guys who are too much lazy for retrain brain and muscle memory for dayz

 

is sad for them but if they don't like maybe is good they going back to CoD and counter strike :P

[27 others 102]

It is not by accident or incompetence that we have such a sluggish char behaviour.

It's fully intended and the reason is to make combat dependent of, not one's skill in playing fast paced video games, but the players actual competence in desicion making, tactical choices and keeping his head straight in tense situations.

 

 

There is the problem. With the current movement in DayZ, we do not have a compromise. Almost every freedom of mouse movement is taken from the player, and everything focuses on these "tactical situations". Keep in mind, this is not a military operations simulator we are talking about here, but a zombie apocalypse simulator. That means the probabilty of having to work alone is raised a lot. Making friends in such a dangerous environment is not an easy task. And if im working alone, there is not THAT much of tactical operations i, myself, can do. That means, the logical conclusion would be, to give the player some of his movement freedom back. If i scavenge a house and there is someone hiding in a corner, im fucked, because my mouse movement only clunkily and partly gets translated into ingame movement. Gameplay in DayZ should neither be built ENTIRELY on muscle skill nor ENTIRELY on tactical skill, but a compromise. After all, this is how things are in real life.

Edited January 31, 2014 by 27 others

[ChiefMasterKush 321]

I gave you beans because of your TL;DR

 

I love DayZ for many of the same reasons you do, but also because it attracts people like you to the game.

[twingunz 308]

I agree! I feel animations need to be separated from upper to lower body that in itself will clean up a lot of the clunky feeling; why when i run can't i pull my gun out and then stop running mid animation or sidestep; why can't i eat food and walk or crouch while doing it other than standing there helpless; once those kinds of locked animations get fixed (so legs are separated from upper body movements) and some small tweaks to the movement animations overall i think the game will feel 100% better and still keep that authentic reaction time logic you are talking about.

IMO it's not the controls that make the game feel unresponsive it is purely the locked animations and (currently) terrible animation transitions that lock you in, If they don't make animations more dynamic i don't think the game will ever lose that sluggish feel. All that said i am confident it will get to that stage though with the animations.

Edit: grammar spelling the usual for a non proofreader.

Edited February 1, 2014 by twingunz

[Intactus 128]

I gave you beans because of your TL;DR

:thumbsup: :D

 

 

There is the problem. With the current movement in DayZ, we do not have a compromise.

Agreed. What we need is a good compromise that grants us good control and gameplay without straying too far from the truth. Hell i'd LOVE a button to blindly spray half a mag over my shoulder or left/right in case of someone giving a chase etc. just to have some quick reactions to stir things up etc. :)

I am not foaming about holding a rigorous military simulation standards here, just trying to shed some light to many people wondering why we have this very different control scheme to begin with.

Understanding things makes them easier to accept.

 

 

guys like me who coming from CoD and counter strike to dayz without arma experience feeling confuse by movement control system :huh:

Yes, all those posts about this are solid proof about it. Guys like me that haven't picked that much from "twitchers" have easier time coping i believe.

It's just that.. Well, they're very different types of games is all.

To me it looks like Soccer players going to play basketball game and being like "Fuck this! It's all shit!" cause rules say they can't kick the ball in the hoop.

Both games are played with a ball and have goals, just like arma and cod both have mouse, keyboard and guns, you just need to play each game very differently and who's to say which one is better. To each its own.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Intactus

[crazykage 1063]

Damn right. Well spoken, thought out, and absolutely true. A true milestone accomplishment on this forum....