Loot spawning is too formulaic

[jubeidok 495]

As it was in the mod, I find loot spawning to be too formulaic. With it being this way, it will basically cause players to settle into a pattern or already has. Bringing us way back to the Quake days where you run your perfect line to get all the pick-ups you want and then battle it out in the intersections. I could of swore that they were claiming way back in last years E3 demo that any loot can spawn anywhere. What happened to that and why didn't that make it's way into the SA release?

 

It's great that there are so many building types that can be entered now, but what is the point if you already know what you will or wont find in them? I currently find myself only hitting up a handful of buildings; red brick mess hall, construction site, office building, piano building, stores and the obvious, military buildings. It didn't take long for me to settle into this pattern either. You just get tired of running in and out of all these building types with no surprises ever being thrown your way. Now mind you, I do get that part of this issue is due to the limited amount of items there are to find at the moment, but it doesn't change the fact that you know you'll never find a handgun hidden under a bed in the bedroom of that yellow house. 

 

I'd also like to see loot spawns that reward explorers, enticing people to get out and explore the map. How many times have you been running through a section of forest and see one of those chicken coop type structures(anyone know what they actually are?) and you eagerly run up into hoping for a big surprise? I did, at least in the first few days of SA, but now I just sprint right on by as I do with deer stands and many other structures in the world. How cool would it be to be heading over a hill, come across one of those camp sites or rest areas with the benches and spot a rifle leaning up against the bench or running up to a pond to take a drink and spotting something valuable just beneath the surface? Would be a pretty big score and leave a good impression on the player I would think.

 

Anyways, those are my thoughts on the current loot spawning situation. Let's hope we'll start to see greater variety in where loot is spawning throughout development.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I miss the helicopter crash sites from the mod.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

There is a very vocal minority that demand loot to spawn in logical places, aka military loot in military places. I can see why they want that, but to me, this just makes things too predictable. If the world was randomly generated why not, cause you would know that you have a chance to find this or that in that kind of building, but in a static world like we have? that's bad.

[Window Licker 504]

From what I've found it appears they are trying to randomize it somewhat, I've noticed that in building's the spawning isn't consistent, or say there is 10 spawn points in a building, only 5 of them chosen at random will spawn a random loot item that it's capable of spawning, not 100% but it seems to be whats happening.

 

I wanted to test it via a LAN server but that isn't possible, so it's a good old case of wait and see.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

There is a very vocal minority that demand loot to spawn in logical places, aka military loot in military places. I can see why they want that, but to me, this just makes things too predictable. If the world was randomly generated why not, cause you would know that you have a chance to find this or that in that kind of building, but in a static world like we have? that's bad.

 

Even just searching residential buildings for food I run past countless other houses, going for that one that I know is certain to have lots of food.(big yellow 1 story with blue trim) I don't think it's a problem of logical placement, but a problem of not being random enough.

[Rec0n412 9]

I would prefer a World of Warcraft style loot system

 

In WoW, certain enemies in certain areas have x% to drop something, but they almost all have the same chance to drop something from the same loot table.

 

In DayZ that would translate to loot zones having a set % chance to generate something from the loot table anywhere in the loot zone.

 

That would be my preference at any rate.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

if DayZ was a minecraft like universe where everywhere you go is completely unknown, buildings spawning specific items would be fine. As it is right now, everyone knows chernarus like the back of their hand.

[hogscraper 328]

As it was in the mod, I find loot spawning to be too formulaic. With it being this way, it will basically cause players to settle into a pattern or already has. Bringing us way back to the Quake days where you run your perfect line to get all the pick-ups you want and then battle it out in the intersections. I could of swore that they were claiming way back in last years E3 demo that any loot can spawn anywhere. What happened to that and why didn't that make it's way into the SA release?

They did say that loot can spawn anywhere and it can. They didn't mean you might find a can of beans on the bottom of a pond, they meant that instead of loot spawning in a few piles in a house, they could add individual spawn points on window sills, behind the stove, things like that. The problems you seem to be having are wholly within how you have decided to play the game. Its a mistake you are making by deciding to bypass as much of the game as possible to get to the battle in the intersections. I still check every shed and lean to in the mod because collecting things and exploring is fun to me. If a player comes to Dayz just to shoot other players I would rather them stay around Balota and NWAF and leave the residential areas free to the people choosing to explore.

 

The game could use a little bit randomness in maybe having one spawn point in a building have a small chance to spawn a very specific item but too much breaks the ability of players to find what they need. Doubly so in the SA, right now, where they are testing player interactions and combat that can't happen if players are needing to search under beds to find a gun. Would it be cool if I did find one there? Sure, but after the first time how many players would just add that location to 'my list of places to find a gun' thus furthering the formulaic system you are speaking against. Even if they created unique, semi-random loot tables for every single building in the game, it would still, eventually, turn into these ten buildings have a chance to spawn what I'm looking for so I won't go anywhere else.

 

I'd also like to see loot spawns that reward explorers, enticing people to get out and explore the map. How many times have you been running through a section of forest and see one of those chicken coop type structures(anyone know what they actually are?) and you eagerly run up into hoping for a big surprise? 

I think those coops and all that other stuff will eventually have loot in them as I heard Rocket say something to that effect in a livestream a while back. I just imagine that it would be a very low priority on their list at the moment. The bigger issue is that every single piece of loot that they spawn on the map adds to the server load. I can't see them wanting to populate too much of the outer areas with resource using loot spawns if only maybe one in a thousand players will ever see it. 

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I think the best thing that could happen is for them to litter every building with ridiculous amounts of loot spawns of every type. m4's in residential houses, can openers in police stations, etc. Then just give everything a low chance to spawn and the off-type items have a really low chance to spawn.

 

There shouldn't be buildings that people avoid and buildings that people favor. You should be able to score big in any building, and at the same rate, come up dry in prime areas. An example would be looting an untouched grocery store in one town could yield you one can of tuna, and in the next town it might have more loot than you can carry. It's currently way to consistent as far as loot payouts go, we should never know there's going to be loot. Finding a tshirt instead of food isn't a good way to disappoint the player, we should find nothing or a room full of tshirts, or anywhere in between.

[Facetentacles 92]

I will agree that (especially if this is like the Russian wilderness) that there should occasionally be rifle spawns in houses, especially those in rural areas. Seems like the former residents didn't ever hunt. But this is early into the game and more things are being added so I suggest just waiting

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I will agree that (especially if this is like the Russian wilderness) that there should occasionally be rifle spawns in houses, especially those in rural areas. Seems like the former residents didn't ever hunt. But this is early into the game and more things are being added so I suggest just waiting

 

There are a few houses that already spawn rifles and shot guns. But, that's the problem, as a regular player I've learned which houses have a chance to spawn guns and can run straight to them. Imagine that in real life, even if the houses in that part of the world were all the same, the rifles aren't always going to be in the exact same spots of the houses. There's also going to be a chance that multiple guns will be in one house.

 

How many times have you seen an item on the ground in-game and been like "yup, a player was here". That's an issue with design, not just a lack of items added. It's cool that we can be detectives like that, but in essence everything we loot was supposed to be placed by human hands. So dropping an item in the middle of a floor shouldn't indicate anything. There's not enough randomness with where the items are being placed and how many. It's like the OP said, we get out favorite lines, run in check the stove top, behind the heater, top of stairs, and you're gone. All very autonomous and consistent. You might not find the best loot every time, but you find something.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Does any of you believe that the game would be worse with a daily (hourly?) shuffling of where each loot category spawn?

[byrgesen 1340]

I think everything should be able to spawn everywhere basicly :)

Now, give the items a % chance, say 0.5-1% chance a m4 will spawn in a civilian house and perhaps 5% it will spawn in a military barrack, or something along thoose lines. (just random numbers, calm your tits :D )
I think it will make it much more dynamic and unpredictable, becasue right now you go to specific places for specific loot.

That mechanic could be changed, so you go to specific places, to get a higher chance of specific loot :)

This would mean, people would spread out more, because they will still be able to find items everywhere, they can simply choose to go to specific places to have a higher chance of finding the exact item.

 

My 2 cents :)

[jubeidok 495]

I think everything should be able to spawn everywhere basicly :)

Now, give the items a % chance, say 0.5-1% chance a m4 will spawn in a civilian house and perhaps 5% it will spawn in a military barrack, or something along thoose lines. (just random numbers, calm your tits :D )

I think it will make it much more dynamic and unpredictable, becasue right now you go to specific places for specific loot.

That mechanic could be changed, so you go to specific places, to get a higher chance of specific loot :)

This would mean, people would spread out more, because they will still be able to find items everywhere, they can simply choose to go to specific places to have a higher chance of finding the exact item.

 

My 2 cents :)

 

Precisely. Logic could be used to control the chances of a particular item without it being the end all, be all.

 

The way I see it, the players are late to the party. The outbreak has already occurred and we are in the aftermath. So, to me, this means that some poor sap could have been anywhere on the map trying to flee with his goodie bag, over taken by zeds and thus, leaving a goodie bag behind when he gets up and walks away after turning.

 

Which now leads me into another thought with how things are spawning. Why is that the inhabitants of Chernarus always made their way around with empty backpacks, pockets, cases. I'd like to once in a while come across a blood stained backpack that has a few items already in it or pants with something in the pockets already, even if it's something useless like a handful of change. And on the flip side, how about finding a med-kit that is empty.

 

We just gotta wait it out and hope these things start to turn around. In the mean time, I guess the best we can do is keep sharing our ideas and hope they make it into the meetings these guys must have when discussing this sort of thing. 

[razguul@gmail.com 80]

Random spawn of items would greatly improve the need to search all houses, as it stand I only ever enter a handful of buildings.

[FatboyTim 27]

We need better randomisation of spawns (so there is a small chance that any item can be found) plus the ability for all properties to spawn loot would make the game a lot more better.

 

I run through towns currently, knowing that there is no point at all in venturing into many properties (that actually spawned loot prior to the most-recent patch,)

[basco 2]

I imagine that the loot will end up being more randomized like they said it would, its still way to early in the alpha to know how this system will end up working. plus the loot tables are going to get more and more items as time goes on and more buildings are being added to the loot table's spawn list, so they probably need a more finalized list of items and locations before they can really test out a fully randomized loot system.

 

 

On that note, as far as possibly rewarding explorers they could introduce random abandoned camp sight that can spawn out in the wilderness that could possibly have higher tier items. Make it like the heli crashes form the mod but with a lot more possible spawning locations. It wouldn't surprise me if they are already thinking about this.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Basco

[Atomizer 53]

At first I disagreed, but then I thought about it more, and with the excellent points everyone has brought up, you are absolutely right.

 

So I propose something based on the hive controlled loot thing I heard Rocket talk about a while back.

 

Essentially, it has all the "loot spots" in the various buildings, vehicles and other locations, it then determines the quantity of loot of various types for the whole map, it then distributes the loot in a fairly realistic spread over the whole map, probably with a weighting system for each location, giving certain locations higher chance of snagging at least one item from the right loot category, if not more.

Because lets face it, the supermarkets are more likely to have food, the military camps are more likely to have guns/ammo/attachments, however this does give loot of all types a chance to spawn anywhere on the map, however still limiting the actual numbers for the whole server.

 

For example, it might be decided that each server will spawn:

 

25 primary guns

50 secondary guns

100 melee weapons

1000 food/water items

500 clothing items

etc

 

So it will try to keep that many items of each type spawned, with a check to spawn more say once an hour.

 

There is more that could be fleshed out about this system, but that is what I have come up with, would obviously require a lot of testing and balancing to get this to a playable state, but this would ultimately result in anything spawning anywhere, just with weight added where it makes sense.

[byrgesen 1340]

At first I disagreed, but then I thought about it more, and with the excellent points everyone has brought up, you are absolutely right.

 

So I propose something based on the hive controlled loot thing I heard Rocket talk about a while back.

 

Essentially, it has all the "loot spots" in the various buildings, vehicles and other locations, it then determines the quantity of loot of various types for the whole map, it then distributes the loot in a fairly realistic spread over the whole map, probably with a weighting system for each location, giving certain locations higher chance of snagging at least one item from the right loot category, if not more.

Because lets face it, the supermarkets are more likely to have food, the military camps are more likely to have guns/ammo/attachments, however this does give loot of all types a chance to spawn anywhere on the map, however still limiting the actual numbers for the whole server.

 

For example, it might be decided that each server will spawn:

 

25 primary guns

50 secondary guns

100 melee weapons

1000 food/water items

500 clothing items

etc

 

So it will try to keep that many items of each type spawned, with a check to spawn more say once an hour.

 

There is more that could be fleshed out about this system, but that is what I have come up with, would obviously require a lot of testing and balancing to get this to a playable state, but this would ultimately result in anything spawning anywhere, just with weight added where it makes sense.

Not a bad concept, but i have to admit i hate the idea of having a "static" number of guns/food etc.

This is where the % chance can make things fun tbh.

So we keep the 1 hour check, you proposed, possibly based it on the lenght people have been absent from certain areas aswell, but instead of saying "We need 12 more rifles" it simply picks a loot table and starts spawning, based purely on percentage and chance.

 

Example:

Server does a check once in a while (would be best to base this on absence of player tbh), it might clean some of the loot and then jump to the loot table for civilian buildings.

This loot table has a very long list, of all items with they're % chance and it simply starts "populating" the civilian buildings, in the choosen ares, based solely on % chance and total max item count.

This way it will be alot more random and diverse loot you will find, and sometimes theres gonna be 50 rifles on the server, sometimes theres gonna be 3, its purely based on chance, and possibly with a "max type of item" roof, to ensure its not going crazy once in a while :)

Its actually kinda what you said, but with small twists :)

Edited January 31, 2014 by Byrgesen

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

The thing is that if you weight spawning you do not solve the problem, people will only focus in areas that are the most likely to give them what they wish. Why would anyone play weak cards given the choice?

[unicornsmustdie 32]

hm, I think it makes sense to keep certain loot to a 'logical' spawn location, e.g. M4 at an army base or airfield, but also because I think it helps establish really scary/hi value loot locations. You have to remember there's 1 million players out there, and the vast majority (including myself) shits all colors of the rainbow to have to venture out onto an airfield for ammo for my M4 -especially now knowing that everyone and his uncle is out for my M4.

 

So rather than putting myself in the 'logical loot sites' camp, I see the big advantage of having these superscary locations where you walk around five hundred times before you have the nerve to cross the fence..

[byrgesen 1340]

The thing is that if you weight spawning you do not solve the problem, people will only focus in areas that are the most likely to give them what they wish. Why would anyone play weak cards given the choice?

Well that is true, but that will be the case no matter how the loot is tbh, people will always seek the best place to find the loot they want.

I do however believe people will scatter more, if they had chances of finding everything everywhere :)

Ofc people will still run to the airfields and other military areas, becasue it would have the highest chance of giving them what they want, but others might try new places, simply because of the "i never know what i will find" gameplay style, it could bring to DayZ.

 

 

hm, I think it makes sense to keep certain loot to a 'logical' spawn location, e.g. M4 at an army base or airfield, but also because I think it helps establish really scary/hi value loot locations. You have to remember there's 1 million players out there, and the vast majority (including myself) shits all colors of the rainbow to have to venture out onto an airfield for ammo for my M4 -especially now knowing that everyone and his uncle is out for my M4.

 

So rather than putting myself in the 'logical loot sites' camp, I see the big advantage of having these superscary locations where you walk around five hundred times before you have the nerve to cross the fence..

I agree mate :)

But with a % based spawn mechanic, theres still the best chance to find an M4 in military areas, because of the %.

But you could also get lucky and find it elsewhere. I would like "surprises" like this, to find loot places you dodnt expect it to be.

It will encourage more scavenging, all over the map, but at the same time keep the "high value loot" sites, pretty much the same as they are now :)

[twingunz 308]

I don't understand why people are against a small chance of loot spawning everywhere. I made a post about this a while ago that was not met very well because apparently it's not 'realistic', but i feel it is 'realistic' to have loot spawn everywhere as the zompocolypse has already happened, people in homes would of also supplied up not just left everything in one place like 'well we will just sit here and wait to die, what's on the TV' people before us that washup on a random boat didn't happen to do any scavenging or home protection whatsoever?

IMO it should work exactly how Byrgesen said have the loot tables as they are BUT have a small % that anything can spawn anywhere it means you won't be finding M4's or military in 99.9% of the non military places you check however once in a while you will be rewarded for checking unorthodox places, which makes the game far more interesting.

it is not a survival game if you know where to look.

[byrgesen 1340]

it is not a survival game if you know where to look.

This^^

It sums it up quite nicely mate :)

[limp-jaffa-cake 0]

I once found a magnum on top of that little ticket booth kind of thing