Logging Out - Expermimental Branch 114782

[Bubbajones 238]

So you log out in a bush but someone sees you walk into this "safe" bush and takes a bet that you are logging out.  Charges the bush when they see you sit down.  They have 30 seconds to get close enough to take a shot and since you are blind, deaf and dumb you do nothing when he starts to open fire.  He unloads his entire 60 round clip and finally kills you before the 30 second timer.

 

Wouldn't you rather have a chance to stand up and run or take out your gun and shoot back?

 

I do like that this kind of feature is being implemented it's better than not having it but I don't know why we can't be present while we log out (safely), for the rare chance someone saw us setting up to log out.

 

age of conan had a timer to log out whiel you were still in game. you watched it count down with your guy sitting down.

 

you could choose to wait and watch it count down. you have the option to cancel it at anytime.

 

or

 

you could choose to exit while the timer is counting down and your avatar will continue to sit until the 30s has passed.

 

in that time. you cannot join any other servers as you still exist on one.

 

 

it's so freakin simple... well a cave man could do it!

 

seriously. these simple steps combined with server change frequency detection and a hopping penalties will GREATLY reduce ghosting and combat logging.

 

anyone who doesn't see that, or want that IS either obtuse, or a ghosting/server hopper themselves.

[Zedicologist 162]

No, as I have said a few times here, I am happy a fix is being implemented.

 

I am just debating why we can't be IN GAME when logging.  I never said you would live if you were still in-game but at least you would have a chance to do something instead of not.  If you don't sit down in a "safe" spot whether you're in game or not you will likely die yes.

 

But in the off chance the guy is noob and opens fire early or just plain misses, or say you hear/see him running full speed at you.  You then have a chance to defend yourself instead of just afking while he walks up firing his gun into the air you only to pull out his ax and chop your face off.

I have no problem with either way.  But with being able to stay in game is exploitable apparently according to a reddit post from rocket.  There is a link in another post a few comments up showing his reddit post.  Whether or not it is exploitable i do not know exactly.  Im sure they considered this option and for one reason or another it just didnt work.  Maybe they implement something better later on down the road if this doesnt work out. As of right now im happy with the fix.

[Dr. Goner 661]

There is not one place that I log out where I would be in danger. That's just part of my game. I find a very nice spot to hide away from zombie and loot spawns and log out.

 

This is the way I do it now. This is the way I'll do it with the timer. I predict that I will be completely fine.

 

People who log out in the middle of towns or lootable areas are going to have problems. . . just like they do now. 

 

I think it's a good first step and it can always be fixed later. I also think that OP's suggestion would have been a fine alternative, but more ripe for exploits. This patch's solution is extreme and should change the way people play the game. That's what we were hoping for and that's what we're going to get. 

 

No offense OP but I hate when people complain about features that they haven't even tried. Could you wait until the patch is pushed to stable before ranting next time?

[Window Licker 504]

Yay they fixed combat logging!!

 

In "pre-patch" there was a small delay where when you login your char will make a reload sound and it may be a couple of seconds before you actually gain control from when the avatar appeared in the game.  Hence I always made sure to log out away from high traffic area's. I'm sure you can find a relatively safe spot, like say a building that doesn't spawn loot, who the hell is going in there? I am and I'm closing the door behind me.

 

Working as desired.

[apollovulcan 93]

So you do it your way, you go into the bush and sit down.  Either way your helpless and more than likely dead.  If your sitting down,  and he/she has a drop on you.  That's it.  Your'e dead.  Its funny though, all month ive seen posts of people complaining about how this game needs a Combat log fix.  We get the combat log fix, and now we have people cpmlaining on how the fix isnt good enough for them.  Seriously?  

 

You're not actually using any logic here.  If you're sitting down for thirty seconds and they "get the drop on you" they might very well miss, couldn't they?  In that same thirty seconds of sitting down IN GAME, they would then have the chance to actually react, and use, wait for it.. player skill and intuition to either A) get the hell out of there and try your log out sequence again, or B] fight back and potentially kill the attacking player and then attempt your log out procedure again.

 

So what you apparently think is best, is that in this same scenario, the player should have absolutely NO chance to defend themselves what-so-ever, and literally roll the dice every single time they log out.  What are you guys going to say when Zombies actually respawn, and you log out, thinking your in a "safe" location, only to have your avatar sitting there in limbo for thirty seconds, and have a zombie spawn in on it, killing your player?  "That's how the game works!".  Seriously?

Logging out should NOT be a blind risk every single time you do it, because that's all it's going to be.

 

PersonA, we'll call him George.  George likes to play DayZ, he doesn't like to combat log, he doesn't like to server hop.  When he plays DayZ, he gets on and stays on that server, no matter how many players come or go, or what opposition he faces.  When it's time for George to log off, George is done playing DayZ for the day.  One day George was cautiously looting a town, when suddenly he heard someone reloading in the next room.  George had taken his time coming into the town, had seen Zombies undisturbed and muddling about.  He was certain that absolutely no one had been following him, surely this was a combat logger!

 

CombatLoggerA, we'll call him SirDoucheALot, hates playing DayZ legitimately.  He combat logs, he server hops at every chance he can get (even with the new server disconnect/reconnect timer).  Well SirDoucheALot wasn't originally logging out in this building to kill George, oh no!  He was running scared from a group of players he maliciously tried to spring a trap on, after his plan was foiled, he managed to take refuge inside George's house, and furiously logged out as soon as he got inside the room.  Why else would he wait?  His avatar will be there for 30 seconds after he disconnects whether it's immediately or if he waits any amount of time to see if his pursuers manage to find him, so SirDoucheALot doesn't take any unnecessary chances.  He immediately logs out.

 

After waiting the 60 second reconnect server timer, to join a different server, SirDoucheALot is now on George's server, in George's house.  George fumbles about and tries to get his gun out, the game bugs out and pulls the 357 magnum out, only to put it away immediately, SirDoucheALot walks in with his gun drawn, and kills George.  SirDoucheALot now moves to a position where he thinks A) he will be safe from the group from before or B] he will be able to attack the group more efficiently than his previous attack, and disconnects.  SirDoucheALot leaves his meaningless phantom behind on George's server, and waits his possibly up to 5 minutes to reconnect to SirDoucheALot's original server, where the group, that legitimately plays DayZ, is still operating.  Now unfortunately for this group, they ran into some Zombie trouble, and had to spend more time in town than they would've liked, knowing that SirDoucheALot's combat logging self could come back any minute now.  Though it had been nearly 10 minutes, SirDoucheALot was able to get into a position and ambush the group that had previously thwarted his attack.

 

Now poor George, and the group, have all been killed, due to combat logging and ghosting.  All of which, wasn't prevented, from leaving a 30 second avatar behind.  Moral of the story is, treating everyone like combat loggers, doesn't change how people combat log.  It just treats every player, like our poor friend George here, like a malicious combat logging douchebag, like SirDoucheALot.  Don't treat the Georges like the SirDoucheALots.

Edited January 30, 2014 by McG2

[ChiefMasterKush 321]

@BubbaJones - I feel like you are debating with me even though we appear to have the same opinion on this matter  :thumbsup:

 

 

I have no problem with either way.  But with being able to stay in game is exploitable apparently according to a reddit post from rocket.  There is a link in another post a few comments up showing his reddit post.  Whether or not it is exploitable i do not know exactly.  Im sure they considered this option and for one reason or another it just didnt work.  Maybe they implement something better later on down the road if this doesnt work out. As of right now im happy with the fix.

That is the first I've heard about that.  I would believe it also, but I'm not sure what that exploit would be.

[crimsonbzd 247]

What I want to know is if I am gonna be put on some sort of list if I intentionally test the timer system on experimental.

 

I would think not.

As much as they need people to play this game properly, they need players to try to exploit the system. Do your best to break it, manipulate it, hell even find a way to nuke a server while you're testing it.

Anything you find now they can fix before final release.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

That makes no sense, sorry.  Why would never knowing if you're going to get killed or not prevent these actual combat loggers?  It's not going to.  They're going to leave an avatar sitting somewhere safe like they would have had they had to sit down for 30 seconds, probably more so, because they don't have to stop and wait, they can just go for it, change servers and hope for the best.  If you can't disconnect from the game and immediately reconnect to ANY server for even 30-60 seconds, that's what is going to prevent people from effectively ghosting.

 

Leaving an avatar behind for 30 seconds or forcing someone to sit down for 30 seconds give you the same result for combat logging and ghosting, especially when you add in the server disconnecting/reconnecting timer and checks.  The only difference is for every legitimate player that wants to log out safely, they now have to be treated like a douchey combat logger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly my point Zombie Jesus, the only difference is treating every single player like they're combat logging every single time they log out, or actually giving players the benefit of the doubt.  Sorry but you all aren't making a valid counter argument here.  This log out system literally treats every single player like they're combat logging, every single time they log out. 

 

Ghosting is going to be prevented by server reconnect/disconnect timers, so why treat every player like they're ALWAYS combat logging?

 

Why not have a system that actually penalizes players for actual combat logging (Alt+F4, disconnects) and allows every single player the option to safely log out by sitting down?

 

No one has made a counter argument to that question, yet.  In the reddit thread they didn't cover this.

 

In a perfect world we would be plugged into the matrix so the server could ascertain whether you were just logging out or trying to avoid combat. Since we do not we all suffer with a 30 second window where we might be killed. Putting in a bunch of mechanics for the server to gauge intent is a waste of time when the current proposal will work in most circumstances with few unintended consequences. Why over complicate something that can be done extremely easily. People will learn to log out in safe places and if they do not most can accept the consequence. 

[frosti 2165]

Actually this system is good.

 

Becouse combat loggers will be scared to just hide somewhere behind bush or something when they are in combat and try to wait those 30 seconds.

 

They will have to be sure that they made it to safe location before they log out.

 

This log out system that is now is aweseome I love it.

 

Combat loggers will hate but this only shows how good this system is.

[apollovulcan 93]

In a perfect world we would be plugged into the matrix so the server could ascertain whether you were just logging out or trying to avoid combat. Since we do not we all suffer with a 30 second window where we might be killed. Putting in a bunch of mechanics for the server to gauge intent is a waste of time when the current proposal will work in most circumstances with few unintended consequences. Why over complicate something that can be done extremely easily. People will learn to log out in safe places and if they do not most can accept the consequence. 

 

You're not actually making any logical argument and you're casting off "a bunch of mechanics" for some simple coding.  If you think treating every single player like they're combat logging, and that it's ok to have a Zombie respawn on your avatar after you've logged out in a CLEARED area that YOU think is safe, only to have that Zombie spawn on top of you and kill you; you need to reevaluate what you think DayZ is and should be.

[Dr. Goner 661]

What I want to know is if I am gonna be put on some sort of list if I intentionally test the timer system on experimental.

 

Yes

 

I certainly want to see this kind of feature added but I would prefer that I stay in-game while the timer is going.  You say it's like you were attacked in your sleep.  Don't you think if the first shot didn't kill you that you would wake up?  I would like to think I would and so have some chance to react.  If you are forced to be sitting when logging then you wouldn't be able to immediately start running and your situation would be pretty shitty but at least you are still connected to the matrix and have a chance to do something.

 

As the OP said EQ1 did this and I really thought it was a great way to prevent agro-dodge.

 

I really don't understand why people are fighting this so much. You haven't even tried it yet. Also, this is the way it is so deal with it or leave the game. Waiting for the timer sucked in the mod. Find a good hiding spot, the map is huge, I guarantee I will never be killed when logging out. Because I log out in safe places.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Dr. Goner

[apollovulcan 93]

The point is that no matter what you're doing, you're either going to be able to defend yourself for 30 seconds, or blindly roll the dice and hope no one rolls up on you in that same 30 seconds.  Those are the ONLY two options.

 

Thinking this only affects combat loggers is completely ignorant.  At any point in the game, any one not combat logging could log out somewhere, where they think is safe, only to have someone else log in, possibly that played on that server and only that server, HOURS ago, and be able to kill them freely, with no risk, because you logged out "legitimately", and left your avatar behind for 30 seconds.  That's just dumb.  Who would seriously log into their server and see someone sitting there, not responding to chat at all, and just leave them be because they "might" be logging out.  All you're going to see is an immediate KOS of anyone sitting down.

Edited January 30, 2014 by McG2

[ChiefMasterKush 321]

Actually this system is good.

 

Becouse combat loggers will be scared to just hide somewhere behind bush or something when they are in combat and try to wait those 30 seconds.

 

They will have to be sure that they made it to safe location before they log out.

 

This log out system that is now is aweseome I love it.

 

Combat loggers will hate but this only shows how good this system is.

That actually kind of makes sense, because if you wanted to combat log and they started opening fire on you, you could then stop combat logging and continue to return fire.  So maybe this is the best method, it seems it is the easiest anyways.

 

edit: I would still like to know that when I log in I will be where I was when I logged out.

Edited January 30, 2014 by ChiefMasterKush

[Dr. Goner 661]

@BubbaJones - I feel like you are debating with me even though we appear to have the same opinion on this matter  :thumbsup:

 

 

That is the first I've heard about that.  I would believe it also, but I'm not sure what that exploit would be.

 

Of course you can exploit it. You'll just see players sitting on their asses everywhere all the time. It happened all the time in the mod. Find a safe place to log out. There are literally thousands of them. 

 

If you can't find a spot to hide your character for thirty seconds you're doing it wrong. I could do it on a 40/40 server in between the runways at NWAF. . .  and I will  ;)

[Bubbajones 238]

@BubbaJones - I feel like you are debating with me even though we appear to have the same opinion on this matter  :thumbsup:

 

 

 

i do agree with you. i was just expanding/clarifying that other games allow you to wait out the timer in game with the option to cancel.

[execpro22 128]

 Rocket said that AFTER you log out your character will sit down and remain in game for 30 seconds.  If I misinterpreted this, please disregard this post.

 

 

This should be the exact opposite, you should have to be able to sit down FOR 30 seconds, in a safe location, BEFORE you can log out. 

 

 

With their current design, you still "need" 30 seconds of safety to effectively log out with no risk.  However, with the current system, the 30 seconds you have to "wait" or "need" are AFTER you have any chance to make a decision or put up a fight.  Currently, someone could log out in a "safe" area, only to have someone server hop, or just log into their server, right at their location, and kill them, completely defenselessly.  If the system were set-up to be closer to the mod version of a log out timer, it would be much better for the players.  The current set up benefits bandits and handicaps defenseless players done with their session, in the most extreme disfavor.  If the log out system could be changed, so that like EQ1, your character must: F3 and sit, be seated for 30 seconds, and then after 30 seconds of being seated, when pressing ESC and accessing the menu, they will be able to click "Exit/log out".

Now!!  On the flipside!!! If someone DOES NOT wait and sit for 30 seconds and Alt+F4s, THAT'S when their avatar should stick around for 30+ seconds in game.   Now THAT would be a log out system.  For players combat logging, in the most textbook definition, they got shot at and know they can't find somewhere to hide to sit down for 30 seconds, so they just Alt+F4; their avatar would instantly stop and be stuck in game for another 30-60 seconds.  In all honesty, if someone combat logs like that with Alt+F4, I think it would be a great idea to have their character start making the in-pain noises.  That way if they did manage to find a hiding spot, but chose not to take the 30 second chance wait, they would be stuck in game and would be making noise for the pursuing players/zombies to hear and find them.

 

 

So basically you normally combat log but now that they put in this new anti-combat log system you cant just pansy out of a firefight.

 

 

You want the system to not hold you accountable for making a bad decision like trying to log out during a firefight. 

 

You are saying that you should be able to change your mind at the last second if you run from a fight, but your persuers catch up to you....

 

 

No dice!

Edited January 30, 2014 by execpro22

[apollovulcan 93]

That actually kind of makes sense, because if you wanted to combat log and they started opening fire on you, you could then stop combat logging and continue to return fire.  So maybe this is the best method, it seems it is the easiest anyways.

 

edit: I would still like to know that when I log in I will be where I was when I logged out.

 

And there's the moral of the story.  Dieing AFTER you log out, losing your character progress AFTER you disconnect from the game, is just wrong.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

No, as I have said a few times here, I am happy a fix is being implemented.

 

I am just debating why we can't be IN GAME when logging.  I never said you would live if you were still in-game but at least you would have a chance to do something instead of not.  If you don't sit down in a "safe" spot whether you're in game or not you will likely die yes.

 

But in the off chance the guy is noob and opens fire early or just plain misses, or say you hear/see him running full speed at you.  You then have a chance to defend yourself instead of just afking while he walks up firing his gun into the air you only to pull out his ax and chop your face off.

 

Easily exploited. I get into a firefight and decide the other team has the upper hand. In your scenario I get to take the chance at combat logging without the complete risk. If I see the person running up I abort and continue the fight, if not a I disappear into the night. 

[Bubbajones 238]

So basically you normally combat log but now that they put in this new anti-combat log system you cant just pansy out of a firefight.

 

 

You want the system to not hold you accountable for making a bad decision like trying to log out during a firefight. 

 

You are saying that you should be able to change your mind at the last second if you run from a fight, but your persuers catch up to you....

 

No dice!

 

 

Actually, its more like you left a town to log out in the woods. you begin the 30 second count down when someone bumps into you that you wren't expecting. this gives all players the chance to cancel the log out and fight back - not just the Combat loggers

[Window Licker 504]

WTB Skilled sniper's I'll be on Bolota airfield sitting on the runway as bait.

[apollovulcan 93]

So basically you normally combat log but now that they put in this new anti-combat log system you cant just pansy out of a firefight.

 

 

You want the system to not hold you accountable for making a bad decision like trying to log out during a firefight. 

 

You are saying that you should be able to change your mind at the last second if you run from a fight, but your persuers catch up to you....

 

 

No dice!

 

Thank you for pointing out all the logical things that would actually make the system I proposed better than leaving an avatar behind, though the second one you kind of missed the mark in, and the first one.  Considering that at any point, if you leave an avatar behind for 30 seconds, you can pansy out of a firefight and log out, and hope they can't get to you in those 30 seconds, sorry you missed the bulleye there.  How would sitting down for 30 seconds and forcing you to stay in the game allow you to not be held accountable for making a "bad decision" and trying to log out in a firefight?  How does leaving an avatar behind that EFFECTIVELY DOES THE SAME THING FOR 30 SECONDS make any difference?  It doesn't when you're combat logging, it does when you're NOT.

 

Start using your brains people, they're there for a reason.

[Dr. Goner 661]

And there's the moral of the story.  Dieing AFTER you log out, losing your character progress AFTER you disconnect from the game, is just wrong.

 

I do not understand people like this. You're the guy that's always like, "This is gonna go wrong and this is gonna go wrong and this is gonna go wrong and then this and then probably that, definitely that..." ad infinitum. 

 

Wait for it to be implemented, try it out, you're probably going to love it. 

 

Because right now, you sound like a very very whiny combat logger who is tossing his toys out of the pram due to his exploit being removed.

[ChiefMasterKush 321]

Easily exploited. I get into a firefight and decide the other team has the upper hand. In your scenario I get to take the chance at combat logging without the complete risk. If I see the person running up I abort and continue the fight, if not a I disappear into the night. 

Yes, this was explained later in the thread.  It seems like a clear way to punish combat loggers while not punishing the everyday survivors/bandits nearly as much, but hopefully they will implement a system in the future where I know I will not have died when I logged out.

Edited January 30, 2014 by ChiefMasterKush

[apollovulcan 93]

Easily exploited. I get into a firefight and decide the other team has the upper hand. In your scenario I get to take the chance at combat logging without the complete risk. If I see the person running up I abort and continue the fight, if not a I disappear into the night. 

 

So how exactly does you getting into a firefight and logging out and leaving an avatar behind for 30 seconds, prevent you from logging out?  If you can see someone running up to you, and get away to talk about it, you deserve to.  If the person coming up to you is that bad, they shouldn't have been able to kill you, because you logged out, and left your body behind for 30 seconds.  Are you serious with that?  You really think that's the better way?  That person coming up to you SHOULD be able to just risk-free kill you?  Surely that's not what you actually believe.

[apollovulcan 93]

I do not understand people like this. You're the guy that's always like, "This is gonna go wrong and this is gonna go wrong and this is gonna go wrong and then this and then probably that, definitely that..." ad infinitum. 

 

Wait for it to be implemented, try it out, you're probably going to love it. 

 

Because right now, you sound like a very very whiny combat logger who is tossing his toys out of the pram due to his exploit being removed.

 

Actually you just sound completely ignorant and like you haven't read anything I posted, but thanks for playing.  Dieing because you logged out and someone logged in, or a zombie spawned, is backwards, sorry.  You can ignorantly throw combat logger at me all you want, but you just look like an idiot to anyone with any sense or intelligence, and like you haven't read the original post I made, or any responses besides the one you chose to cut up and quote out of context.

Edited January 30, 2014 by McG2