The one and only Anti-PVP/PvP Discussion thread! Whine/discuss here!

[funionz 7]

Feel free to dismiss' date=' finally.

That's wishful thinking, and, hum, no, you do not state, you even do enforcing. So just now.

This I know for a long time. And now, I decide not to let you insult me any more. You're disqualified as a serious interlocutor.

[/quote']

I will start taking you serious when you stop typing in retardese. Seriously, it's like google translate just vomited all over your post

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snipped for length

You basically just made the ultimate, forgive my crude description, 'carebear' DayZ. Two enfield rounds to the head to dispatch a zombie? A .303 round would make a head pop like a balloon full of meat. And spawning people guns? Friendlies only? You literally took all the best elements of the game and ripped them out, leaving just another generic horde vs player zombie game.

[bami 3]

You say there's still an element of the unknown' date=' but I hardly think you're really living in fear of your coworkers betraying and murdering you, or stealing your vehicles, or emptying your base, or getting the drop on you while you're distracted fighting zombies, or any of the other myriad of ways in which unknown players can affect your game play.

[/quote']

Actually, both events HAVE happened while I was playing. I was mugged while walking between Electro and Cherno by some people with heavy guns. People have been hijacking eachother vehicles and raiding encampments. All the stuff that happens on the main servers happens there too, but if you disconnect during a firefight, your ass gets banned. Shoot me in the back, too bad and I will respawn: Just part of the game like Rocket states, and I agree with that. And because beanwars isn't an issue because everyone knows eachother, what is the problem with giving everyone a makarov?

It's still PvP, just without all the jerks and hackers. If you call it a "carebear" game then fine with me, but your heart still gets racing when you are hiding from zombies and spot another player. I just made the zombies a bit more challenging, the current zombies in DayZ are just annoying, but post no real danger if you know what you're doing.

B) Can I play on this server?

That would kinda defeat the purpose.

[tfritz 0]

Be nice to have AI neutral zones (survivor communities) that will punish pvp or place bounty's on murderers. of course this would be probably in the independent Dayz game. Doesn't seem at the moment that there is any friendlies in game. Just a huge death match map. Be nice to have more loot locations as well.

[septuscap 42]

Putting aside "realism"' date=' however, I would find the game *more* compelling if it did a better job of supporting cooperative interactions between strangers that meet in-game. The KoS mentality makes this kind of thing next to impossible.

[/quote']

(reposting b/c I've seen this complaint so many god damn times)

Wild West Server (does all the work for you, go interact "meaningfully")

Wasteland Medics

Freeside Trading Co, join survivors, trade, help set up a city

Survivor Checkpoint between Cherno and Elektro

These are a few of the more unique things being done. There are also numerous anti-bandit clans, survivor clans, clans that help new spawns with morphine/blood/food/soda/water, solo players who avoid players via stealth, etc.

And if you must to meet strangers in-game, do it like you would in a real zombie apocalypse. You wouldn't just walk up to a guy with a gun and yell "HI THERE FRIENDLY?"

Keep some degree of cover while you initiate conversation. Have a friend on overwatch in case the situation goes bad. Test the waters; turn your back and use alt-look to see where he's aiming, chat him up and see if his responses lag like he's also talking in some VOIP (with his REAL group), see if he's trying to lead you into a trap.

Granted, there could be more features implemented to help survivors make cities, establish communication via radio, leave "posters" in-game advertising player cities, friendly clan protocols, etc. so you don't have to meta, but joining the right server + TS really isn't asking too much.

[Bucket (DayZ) 0]

Finding groups can actually be really difficult if (like me) you have kids and might find it hard to plan when you get into the game -- or at what times of the day or for how long. Also, I've almost always had to server shop due to bad connection speeds, so I've not had much luck sticking with one server.

Anyway, I know it's alpha and that much is still in the works, so I don't want to complain too much. I just eagerly await a day when I can log in for an hour in the middle of a Tuesday and play a little pick-up coop.

[Makasuro 0]

Because people don't kill each other in real life for stupid ass reasons, or even for sport. You get owned in a video game and bitch it wouldn't happen like that in real life. Wrong, it'd probably be worse in real life.

You're always going to have people that enjoy seeing other people suffer. Live with it, deal with it, quit your bitching, it's life.

That is all.

[jonahcutter 51]

A few radical ideas:

I'd like to see a build of the game with only pistols and shotguns, and very low ammo spawns. Maybe very, very few scoped hunting rifle spawns, but with such low ammo that you'd be lucky to be carrying more than 2-3 shots. No high end, shiny-loot, long-range, high-rof military weapons. Not even any cqb assualt rifles/submachine guns.

Make pvp happen up-close-and-personal. And within the context of likely drawing the horde. If you make pvp have to happen when the initiating party is likely to draw aggro first, then you put a natural brake on KOSing.

Increase zombie spawns, and put zombie spawns in all the treelines around cities to keep campers/snipers on their toes even that far out.

More melee weapons, to help new players deal with the increased spawns. Maybe new players spawn with a basic, close range club. It's not zombie survival without a frying pan!

Super low spawns of food and drink/clean water. Make basic survival from starvation/dehydration your main concern. And you've got so few rounds, you have to weigh whether you want to open up a firefight, or save them for zed defense.

Then the last twist: make it so deaths from gunfire can potentially damage the loot of the killed player... 50% roll on every item being destroyed from each shot.

Scenario: Player A has a nice weapon/gear. Player B ganks him for it. Player B's shots hit that weapon/gear and destroys some/all of it. Player B is now out scarce rounds for his own weapon, has murdered a potential ally, and likely has drawn the attention of the horde. Will he even have time to loot his murder victim before the zeds are on him?

Player B could of attempted diplomacy and traded for what he needed. He made the selfish, easy choice and suffered worse for it. Or he could of gotten lucky and made out like a... well... bandit! And he had to do it all up close, inherently putting himself at risk.

Make everyones' choices have consequences. And the more self-serving choice has the much higher chance for both risk/reward. Right now, the most self-serving choice (KOSing) maximizes rewards while minimizing risk.

[jkingsbury6@hotmail.com 1]

In a serious survival situation guy A doesn't kill guy B without a reason. In dayz it happens constantly. In a real situation where a horde is coming to kill 2 people guy A wouldn't be able to just kill guy B steal all his shit and dissapear to another reality before the horde gets there.

[coolboynaked 0]

In a serious survival situation guy A doesn't kill guy B without a reason. In dayz it happens constantly. In a real situation where a horde is coming to kill 2 people guy A wouldn't be able to just kill guy B steal all his shit and dissapear to another reality before the horde gets there.

Obviously disconnecting is unintended and should not factor into any arguments here.

[jkingsbury6@hotmail.com 1]

Obviously disconnecting is an easy way to get out of dangerous situations and keep all of the loot one has just yanked. even less consequence.. i just killed random dude now i am on different server he can't even get revenge if he tries... ultimate burn. feels so good to be a doosh for all those kids that get picked on at school. Yes i understand that anyone bandit or survivor can do that.. the current balsance encourages people to do this to try and balance it out. spend hours and hours only to be killed by some such person..

Anyways sorry about the rage..

Here's a possible solution to reduce DMing on the servers:

Maybe Bandit bullets should only work on a player that has better equipment than they do. So no more senseless killings by a fully fed bandit with more food and a better gun than their victim. Also the one they wrongly tried to kill would be able to go after them as they would have the lesser equipment (forcing bandits to think twice about killing for lulz). People would then only bandit in roleplaying appropriate situations. As it is with killing for vehicles make anyone killable within 50 feet of a vehicle or something.

[coolboynaked 0]

Well that made no sense at all.

[septuscap 42]

Obviously disconnecting is an easy way to get out of dangerous situations and keep all of the loot one has just yanked.

Seeing as how rocket is going to add a logout timer (or some other fix)' date=' this won't be an issue. Obviously it's still broken, but you can't use an exploit that is slated to be fixed as a defense for your argument.

even less consequence.. i just killed random dude now i am on different server he can't even get revenge if he tries... ultimate burn. feels so good to be a doosh for all those kids that get picked on at school.

So it's unrealistic for A to kill B and d/c, but it's realistic for B to respawn and take revenge on A? Again, d/c abuse will be fixed -- I don't know why you think you deserve to be able to hunt the guy down on your next life hours later. Obviously at some point people have to log off -- and when they come back they're not guaranteed to be on the same server. That's why most of the REAL fights are over tent cities and vehicles -- things tied to the actual server.

You're trying to design the game around random scrubs who don't even know what they're doing yet.

---

Finding groups can actually be really difficult if (like me) you have kids and might find it hard to plan when you get into the game -- or at what times of the day or for how long. Also' date=' I've almost always had to server shop due to bad connection speeds, so I've not had much luck sticking with one server.

Anyway, I know it's alpha and that much is still in the works, so I don't want to complain too much. I just eagerly await a day when I can log in for an hour in the middle of a Tuesday and play a little pick-up coop.

[/quote']

I'm sure this game is also difficult for people with 56k modems, or people trying to play at work in 10-20 minute stints, or whatever. We can always come up with some perfect storm of variables for which a game wouldn't function. Oh you have kids, a wife who hates gaming, bad connection, blah blah blah.

There are numerous servers offering official teamspeaks for friendlies. Go to Survivor HQ and pick from one of many.

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Increase zombie spawns' date=' and put zombie spawns in all the treelines around cities to keep campers/snipers on their toes even that far out. [/quote']

I definitely think there need to be hordes in addition to the zombies guarding loot. Making zombies "harder" obviously just makes the game tedious and stupid, but having that constant threat of a horde in the distance would definitely add to the game.

Super low spawns of food and drink/clean water. Make basic survival from starvation/dehydration your main concern. And you've got so few rounds' date=' you have to weigh whether you want to open up a firefight, or save them for zed defense.[/quote']

Honestly that's already most people's main concern. Most people interact at hot spots for ammo, food, water, and meds, or at cross-roads from one loot spot to another.

I think server hopping, low-pop farming, etc, are the bigger problems. What you get when you restrict basic gear like ammo is larger groups holding places down and farming. Now you have smaller groups & solo players with barely enough ammo to deal with zed aggro, let alone PvP, and zerging prevails. I'm sorry but I think one of the best features of DayZ is that a group of 3 can completely outplay a zerg of 20.

Player B could of attempted diplomacy and traded for what he needed. He made the selfish' date=' easy choice and suffered worse for it. Or he could of gotten lucky and made out like a... well... bandit! And he had to do it all up close, inherently putting himself at risk. [/quote']

I see this fallacious argument used a lot. "Make teamwork viable and player A will team up with player B or trade with him!" It doesn't happen. Players, for the most part, already have their groups; the marginal benefit of adding one more to the group is non-existent, while the risk is enormous.

I think base building is your best bet at "civilized" behavior. The city "owner" has a vested interest in remaining neutral (profit from trade taxes, entry fees, whatever), and player A and B can now meet at said city knowing the city will keep them both in check. Socialize, make groups, trade, etc.

Make everyones' choices have consequences. And the more self-serving choice has the much higher chance for both risk/reward. Right now' date=' the most self-serving choice (KOSing) maximizes rewards while minimizing risk.

[/quote']

Another fallacy. The most profitable activity is farming low traffic areas. That's not why people PvP. The high stakes of full loot definitely add tension to the gameplay, but it's more of a rush like gambling. You're risking your gear, and usually for petty scraps like a winchester or AK that you don't bother looting anyway. People PvP for the victory -- the stealth required to move without being seen, the wit required to get one step ahead of your mark, and just the general skill level a human opponent brings to the table; you're never going to get that from PvE right now.

Or of course, the equally probably event that another group was farming the same area you wandered into and took you out to protect their own. A lot of the time I'm not even looking for people to kill, I'm scavenging gear when I or my overwatch spots some one.

[jkingsbury6@hotmail.com 1]

Here's a possible solution to reduce DMing on the servers:

Maybe Bandit bullets should only work on a player that has better equipment than they do. So no more senseless killings by a fully fed bandit with more food and a better gun than their victim. Also the one they wrongly tried to kill would be able to go after them as they would have the lesser equipment (forcing bandits to think twice about killing for lulz). People would then only bandit in roleplaying appropriate situations. As it is with killing for vehicles make anyone killable within 50 feet of a vehicle or something. Perhaps each item would have a point value.

I understand this solution is less realistic than a "real" Romeroesque zombie apoc (where everyone could do what they wanted). It is still more realistic than people playing dm within one.

I'm not saying eliminate PvP altogether just the part of it that is unrealistic in a ZA.

It IS unrealistic especially in a ZA to kill for no reason. Make a bunch of noise and attract possible zombies for a laugh? highly doubtful.. instead of common.

[van Grunz 0]

People PvP for the victory -- the stealth required to move without being seen' date=' the wit required to get one step ahead of your mark, and just the general skill level a human opponent brings to the table; you're never going to get that from PvE right now.[/quote']

What's about this stealth mode? I've seen it before (someone sneaked this way in the pub I've been, hided out in a room next to me for shooting me down), but I don't know how to activate it. I'm highly sceptical that it's legally useable at all in @Day Z? I don't like cheating, and I'm not going to do that, so I'm not well-informed about the technics. ;)

[galdis 10]

So, if people don't want to simulate the zombie apocalypse in a zombie apocalypse mod, what the fuck do they mean when they say they want a "compelling" zombie apocalypse mod? Do you guys read your posts or even think above a third grade level? If you don't wanna kill any zombies at all, why are you playing a zombie mod? I don't want PvP removed, I want its emphasis scaled back. I want greater rewards for large scale cooperation, anything to counteract the rampant PvP. As it stands, there is no reason to do anything but kill other players. The only gameplay mechanic worth any time is player killing.

This is a zombie apocalypse mod. That means there should be a balance of playerkilling, looting, exploration, and rebuilding. If you only want killing, you're just making a shooter mod.

[SollemNRomanHD 10]

I really dislike the mod now. AVERYBODY, yes, AVERYBODY FUCKING SHOOTS EACHOTHER.

I have died 6 times now because of players. In 2 hours...

[notemedown 2]

I think the PvP experience could be watered down by introducing a more PvP-like PvE element. Maybe if some armed hostile AI units were added there might be more of a us vs them feeling - having said that - I think PvP is here to stay for good reason. I remember evolution and domination and warfare missions in arma being a whole bunch of fun in mp mode with little PvP action or none at all but then those missions (and ctf deathmatch or other pvp missions also) didn't generate the same set of strong emotions that dayz does.

No. Just no.

AI with guns = ruined game.

[cr4wler 0]

So' date=' if people don't want to simulate the zombie apocalypse in a zombie apocalypse mod, what the fuck do they mean when they say they want a "compelling" zombie apocalypse mod? Do you guys read your posts or even think above a third grade level? If you don't wanna kill any zombies at all, why are you playing a zombie mod? I don't want PvP removed, I want its emphasis scaled back. I want greater rewards for large scale cooperation, anything to counteract the rampant PvP. As it stands, there is no reason to do anything but kill other players. The only gameplay mechanic worth any time is player killing.

This is a zombie apocalypse mod. That means there should be a balance of playerkilling, looting, exploration, and rebuilding. If you only want killing, you're just making a shooter mod.

[/quote']

+1

i've been playing this mod for roughly two, maybe three weeks now. i've logged quite some servertime in this period (yay vacation). only ONCE i've met a person that didnt shoot on sight, and when i tried talking to persons about how i am friendly and i'm gonna shoot them if they just run around the corner without saying they're friendly too and they didnt respond and then ran up to me, only ONCE i got a murder when killing them myself, all other were bandit kills (that guy probably hadn't lived for long enough to get bandit status). i also dont want to take PvP away, but right now, it's just way too prevalent. sure, PvP is a GREAT part of the game... i see how you can get a great deal of satisfaction out of killing other people from a mile away when you got a sniper rifle and thenn loot them for their gps or nvgs or whatever, but i got killed so often when i didnt even have a weapon or maybe just a makarov with 2 mags and nothing else...

as soneone else pointed out... this is a zombie apocalypse, where you'd expect people to BOTH help each other AND shoot each other. right now i dont see this. maybe there should be some kind of incentive for playing nice?

[gizm0 96]

So' date=' if people don't want to simulate the zombie apocalypse in a zombie apocalypse mod, what the fuck do they mean when they say they want a "compelling" zombie apocalypse mod? Do you guys read your posts or even think above a third grade level? If you don't wanna kill any zombies at all, why are you playing a zombie mod? I don't want PvP removed, I want its emphasis scaled back. I want greater rewards for large scale cooperation, anything to counteract the rampant PvP. As it stands, there is no reason to do anything but kill other players. The only gameplay mechanic worth any time is player killing.

This is a zombie apocalypse mod. That means there should be a balance of playerkilling, looting, exploration, and rebuilding. If you only want killing, you're just making a shooter mod.

[/quote']

+1

i've been playing this mod for roughly two, maybe three weeks now. i've logged quite some servertime in this period (yay vacation). only ONCE i've met a person that didnt shoot on sight, and when i tried talking to persons about how i am friendly and i'm gonna shoot them if they just run around the corner without saying they're friendly too and they didnt respond and then ran up to me, only ONCE i got a murder when killing them myself, all other were bandit kills (that guy probably hadn't lived for long enough to get bandit status). i also dont want to take PvP away, but right now, it's just way too prevalent. sure, PvP is a GREAT part of the game... i see how you can get a great deal of satisfaction out of killing other people from a mile away when you got a sniper rifle and thenn loot them for their gps or nvgs or whatever, but i got killed so often when i didnt even have a weapon or maybe just a makarov with 2 mags and nothing else...

as soneone else pointed out... this is a zombie apocalypse, where you'd expect people to BOTH help each other AND shoot each other. right now i dont see this. maybe there should be some kind of incentive for playing nice?

However if we were to find some incentive that can't be gamed by bandits for playing nice than people will bitch and more that its the idea is anti sandbox because it makes playing the nice guy just as rewarding as being the asswhole.

[coolboynaked 0]

So' date=' if people don't want to simulate the zombie apocalypse in a zombie apocalypse mod, what the fuck do they mean when they say they want a "compelling" zombie apocalypse mod? Do you guys read your posts or even think above a third grade level? If you don't wanna kill any zombies at all, why are you playing a zombie mod? I don't want PvP removed, I want its emphasis scaled back. I want greater rewards for large scale cooperation, anything to counteract the rampant PvP. As it stands, there is no reason to do anything but kill other players. The only gameplay mechanic worth any time is player killing.

This is a zombie apocalypse mod. That means there should be a balance of playerkilling, looting, exploration, and rebuilding. If you only want killing, you're just making a shooter mod.

[/quote']

Nah, you don't actually think this. You proved it with your posts a couple days ago. You just want a Minecraft sandbox where everyone is friends and PvP is turned off. If you can't handle the things that people do when there's no consequences for their actions, just like there would be in a "real" situation like the one in Day Z where there is total lawlessness and everyone runs around heavily armed, then the game is not for you. In real life situations where any semblance of order has collapsed, the same things happen. Look at Somalia for example. This IS "simulating the zombie apocalypse"

[Daisai (DayZ) 1]

Really ? a sticky for some whine thread like this?

If players dont like player vs player interaction there is a other option in the game called Arma 2.

That option is called single player, if you dont like it that you get shot by other players then dont play a multiplayer game.

If you want a player vs player interaction game where any sort of combat is not possible i suggest playing a facebook game.

Although there aswell you can lose to other players.

[gizm0 96]

Really ? a sticky for some whine thread like this?

If players dont like player vs player interaction there is a other option in the game called Arma 2.

That option is called single player' date=' if you dont like it that you get shot by other players then dont play a multiplayer game.

If you want a player vs player interaction game where any sort of combat is not possible i suggest playing a facebook game.

Although there aswell you can lose to other players.

[/quote']

maybe we just want a system that isn't biased toward killing other players?

[Daisai (DayZ) 1]

Really ? a sticky for some whine thread like this?

If players dont like player vs player interaction there is a other option in the game called Arma 2.

That option is called single player' date=' if you dont like it that you get shot by other players then dont play a multiplayer game.

If you want a player vs player interaction game where any sort of combat is not possible i suggest playing a facebook game.

Although there aswell you can lose to other players.

[/quote']

maybe we just want a system that isn't biased toward killing other players?

So you want a fps/rpg that isnt about defeating other players to improve your own character ?

The game is about survival, yes you can get everything in the game by killing other players.

You know what, thats what most FPS games are about.

But i suppose you want this FPS game to be turned into a zombie grind fest with friendly fire turned off.

[van Grunz 0]

So you want a fps/rpg that isn't about defeating other players to improve your own character?

YES!

The game is about survival' date=' yes you can get everything in the game by killing other players.[/quote']

Thanks, you got the point!

You know what' date=' thats what most FPS games are about.[/quote']

That doesn't matter anything. Look, it's a Zombie Apocalypse Mod.

But i suppose you want this FPS game to be turned into a zombie grind fest with friendly fire turned off.

Definitely: No.

Sniping from far away sounds very good to me (a training video about how to use mildots is very interesting). But first to get a sniper rifle with ammo...

[gizm0 96]

Really ? a sticky for some whine thread like this?

If players dont like player vs player interaction there is a other option in the game called Arma 2.

That option is called single player' date=' if you dont like it that you get shot by other players then dont play a multiplayer game.

If you want a player vs player interaction game where any sort of combat is not possible i suggest playing a facebook game.

Although there aswell you can lose to other players.

[/quote']

maybe we just want a system that isn't biased toward killing other players?

So you want a fps/rpg that isnt about defeating other players to improve your own character ?

The game is about survival, yes you can get everything in the game by killing other players.

You know what, thats what most FPS games are about.

But i suppose you want this FPS game to be turned into a zombie grind fest with friendly fire turned off.

Ummm. maybe you are misunderstanding my point. I'm stating that what reward do friendly players have that bandits can't game?