The one and only Anti-PVP/PvP Discussion thread! Whine/discuss here!

[rymdkejsaren@gmail.com 0]

If you survive the zombies but not the players, did you win at the survival game?

Anyway I thought we were becoming friends but I guess not. I leave you with this video of me killing a zombie with a bicycle.

[van Grunz 0]

Anyway I thought we were becoming friends but I guess not.

I think you got me wrong. If I'd write you an email asking how to survive the game' date=' I'd blame myself for being effortless and lazy. That's the way it was meant.

I leave you with this video of me killing a zombie with a bicycle.

LOL, nice one. :) My mate & I got once a military SUV. Nice thing, big, in TOP condition -- but it disappeared due to bugs. :(

[coolboynaked 0]

I don't think I'll ever meet another player in the server who will be a companion in some way.

This may have been said already.

At a certain stage of the game' date=' you have all you need and no worries when it comes to surviving. Seriously. It's not a rare occurrence for a Dayz player to build-up resources once you venture with an axe until you get a reliable gun, a few canteens and a full hunting kit. Other players have this too. Once you Venture far enough inland, you'd surely realise other players would have the same stable status that you have. So really, there is nothing to be gained in terms of ensuring survival by killing another player.

I can't see the logic in this game in terms of PVP once I realise this.

From just a Day 2 player:

1 SMG

1 pistol

6 raw meat.

3 water canteens.

4 blood packs.

8 Morphine auto injectors

8 bandages

2 epi-pens

4 painkillers

Full hunting survival kit.

Map & Compass & Watch

Could you imagine if a day 4 player killed me? What would he gain? Nothing. Even If i killed him, it would be a pointless kill regardless of the chance of him killing me.

What I'm thinking is: I'm might just have to defend myself against a player who kills for pleasure. In an online gaming setting, this pleasure has become a serious cancer.

[/quote']

Are you kidding me? Those med supplies are a complete goldmine. 8 morphine, 4 blood packs, and a bunch of effortless food/drink? Definitely worth the kill. It's also perfectly plausible that a 4 day player doesn't have a matchbox/compass yet, and by killing you he eliminates you as a potential threat.

I'd like for you to explain what the point of the game would be if the only enemies were zombies.

[a_ruttle 199]

My only issue with bandits is that nowadays most players shoot everybody on sight regardless of whether they are armed or not. And no I'm just not some bandit who doesn't want irritated victims getting PvP removed [which will never happen].

[G'Kyl 0]

I'd like for you to explain what the point of the game would be if the only enemies were zombies.

Quite honestly I think it's sad you need to ask. Nothing personal (I mean that!) but if you can't even see the thrill in a simulation of desperation and the hard struggle for survival (with zombies, of course, being a means to create that sort of situation) as compared to an emotionless game of Deathmatch - that indeed is the end of any possible discussion.

[coolboynaked 0]

I'd like for you to explain what the point of the game would be if the only enemies were zombies.

Quite honestly I think it's sad you need to ask. Nothing personal (I mean that!) but if you can't even see the thrill in a simulation of desperation and the hard struggle for survival (with zombies' date=' of course, being a means to create that sort of situation) as compared to an emotionless game of Deathmatch - that indeed is the end of any possible discussion.

[/quote']

The zombies in this game aren't even remotely a challenge without the threat of players. The only thing stopping players from sprinting through towns at full speed to loot spots is the threat of other players. Everything about them that is threatening is added by players - the fact that if you shoot players will hear your gunshots and you will attract more zombies, which will give away your position to anyone looking for longer. Other players are also the only thing that adds any kind of fun to travelling - having to constantly be on the lookout, travel through the wilderness, be wary of clearings, etc. None of this would exist in your ideal mod of "pointless: the game"

Lets run around travelling and gathering the best gear so that we can kill zombies better!! YAY. Absolutely no way to ever die? AMAZING. Screw this "emotionless deathmatch," despite the fact that player vs player is the only thing that adds any sort of intensity whatsoever to the game. Or are you scanning the treelines for zombies when you travel? lol

[galdis 10]

All of my friends and myself included are no longer playing this game. If you guys think it's fun to be assholes to each other and PvP all the time, instead of playing a zombie survival game, and if Rocket is really going to be another Notch and allow his game to be dumbed down for the ease of shallow PvP gameplay (and when the hackers are better than the ex-BI employee you know something is wrong), then so be it. Enjoy your shit game.

Thanks for ruining a great mod.

[coolboynaked 0]

All of my friends and myself included are no longer playing this game. If you guys think it's fun to be assholes to each other and PvP all the time' date=' instead of playing a zombie survival game, and if Rocket is really going to be another Notch and allow his game to be dumbed down for the ease of shallow PvP gameplay (and when the hackers are better than the ex-BI employee you know something is wrong), then so be it. Enjoy your shit game.

Thanks for ruining a great mod.

[/quote']

Hahahahaha "dumbed down." Removing features, infact, removing the only thing that adds depth to the game, is the very definition of that term. Have fun in whatever non competitive carebear game you play next.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Nothing personal (I mean that!) but if you can't even see the thrill in a simulation of desperation and the hard struggle for survival (with zombies' date=' of course, being a means to create that sort of situation) as compared to an emotionless game of Deathmatch - that indeed is the end of any possible discussion.

[/quote']

Wondering if you will be able to stop and consider the thick, dripping irony of your post.

Facing off against enemies controlled by a few hundred lines of AI script performing the same predictable reactions to your behaviors over and over again is "emotional."

Facing off against actual human enemies with varied motivations and desires, not to mention a cunning intelligence that can respond to your behaviors dynamically - creating a different experience every time - is somehow "emotionless" in comparison?

Don't you think you maybe have that backwards? That maybe a struggle against humans obviously involves more emotions than a struggle against AI opponents?

Don't you think that's the whole reason rocket has made PvP such an essential part of the game?

Just a thought.

---

allow his game to be dumbed down for the ease of shallow PvP gameplay

Ahh, and here it is again. The same ridiculous fallacy.

Mindless AI opponents controlled by predictable scripts? A-okay! Give me more!

Mindful human opponents controlled by actual brains and capable of the full gambit of human emotion? "Dumbed down."

I hate to end posts with trite shit like 'lol' but in this case.

LOL.

[galdis 10]

All of my friends and myself included are no longer playing this game. If you guys think it's fun to be assholes to each other and PvP all the time' date=' instead of playing a zombie survival game, and if Rocket is really going to be another Notch and allow his game to be dumbed down for the ease of shallow PvP gameplay (and when the hackers are better than the ex-BI employee you know something is wrong), then so be it. Enjoy your shit game.

Thanks for ruining a great mod.

[/quote']

Hahahahaha "dumbed down." Removing features, infact, removing the only thing that adds depth to the game, is the very definition of that term. Have fun in whatever non competitive carebear game you play next.

All I can read is "ARGLAARGARGAG OH MAN ROCKET'S COCK IS SO DELICIOUS".

The fact that you instantly respond with "LOL TOO HARDCORE 4 U" proves how ridiculous this community is. You all can't even come up with your own responses, you just spew out whatever bullshit Rocket shovels out to you. Well, enjoy it. Dwarf Fortress is more fun.

---

Nothing personal (I mean that!) but if you can't even see the thrill in a simulation of desperation and the hard struggle for survival (with zombies' date=' of course, being a means to create that sort of situation) as compared to an emotionless game of Deathmatch - that indeed is the end of any possible discussion.

[/quote']

Wondering if you will be able to stop and consider the thick, dripping irony of your post.

Facing off against enemies controlled by a few hundred lines of AI script performing the same predictable reactions to your behaviors over and over again is "emotional."

Facing off against actual human enemies with varied motivations and desires, not to mention a cunning intelligence that can respond to your behaviors dynamically - creating a different experience every time - is somehow "emotionless" in comparison?

Don't you think you maybe have that backwards? That maybe a struggle against humans obviously involves more emotions than a struggle against AI opponents?

Don't you think that's the whole reason rocket has made PvP such an essential part of the game?

Just a thought.

---

allow his game to be dumbed down for the ease of shallow PvP gameplay

Ahh' date=' and here it is again. The same ridiculous fallacy.

Mindless AI opponents controlled by predictable scripts? A-okay! Give me more!

Mindful human opponents controlled by actual brains and capable of the full gambit of human emotion? "Dumbed down."

I hate to end posts with trite shit like 'lol' but in this case.

LOL.

[/quote']

you retard, the problem isn't that we hate playing against intelligent human players. the problem is people play the game like it's CoD and it's not realistic.

[coolboynaked 0]

Who plays the game like it's CoD? No one at all. In CoD you don't travel across the countryside for hours being super paranoid and watching your back at every turn, scoping out towns for minutes before feeling safe to enter at all. The only part of the game where people kill eachother a lot is in Cherno/Elektro after spawning, and they're doing it because they have no items and there is a good chance you will have items. They want these items.

Explain how any of this is remotely like CoD aside from "there is shooting"

Every game you've mentioned has been some non-competitive casual crap so I don't get how you stumbled across this game anyway. There's nothing remotely relevant to Day Z in Minecraft or Dwarf Fortress and the only thing relevant in CoD is the fact that both games have guns.

Don't mistake the game not being for you as the developer being bad, rofl. I didn't like Minecraft because it was boring and pointless but I didn't make rage posts on the forums about it blaming Notch.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

you retard' date=' the problem isn't that we hate playing against intelligent human players. the problem is people play the game like it's CoD and it's not realistic.

[/quote']

Uh-huh. Okay. And how do zombies play the game, exactly? Why is it okay that they're mindlessly trying to kill you no questions asked, yet when other players do it suddenly it's a "problem?"

Makes absolutely zero sense.

Also, can we not go down the ridiculous loop of what is "realistic?" Can we agree once and for all that nobody on present day Earth has the remotest idea what a "realistic" zombie apocalypse would look like?

Can we instead focus on what makes a compelling game, not about whether we're recreating the actual apocalypse?

[Delta Smoke 01 765]

Who plays the game like it's CoD? No one at all. In CoD you don't travel across the countryside for hours being super paranoid and watching your back at every turn' date=' scoping out towns for minutes before feeling safe to enter at all. The only part of the game where people kill eachother a lot is in Cherno/Elektro after spawning, and they're doing it because they have no items and there is a good chance you will have items. They want these items.

Explain how any of this is remotely like CoD aside from "there is shooting"

Every game you've mentioned has been some non-competitive casual crap so I don't get how you stumbled across this game anyway. There's nothing remotely relevant to Day Z in Minecraft or Dwarf Fortress and the only thing relevant in CoD is the fact that both games have guns.

Don't mistake the game not being for you as the developer being bad, rofl. I didn't like Minecraft because it was boring and pointless but I didn't make rage posts on the forums about it blaming Notch.

[/quote']

I think he's refering to the players that do nothing but hunt in cherno and elektro. In which he's right. They are playing as if they are playing cod. They dont know any better. But atleast in this game they die a lot easyer :P so i say let them :)

[Ninjutsu 1]

Ok let me start off by saying I do not condone punishing players style. Ie if someone wishes to sit on a grassy knoll for and hour for that one kill, that is their prerogative.

I dont appreciate the play style of the run & gunners (generally also d/c's aswell), but I manage to avoid them by staying out of the main towns when the servers populated.

I will admit there is an ego boost when you stalk someone down for 15min and shank them from behind; but I dont think the same feeling applies while laying in wait within the barracks.

Essentially there are some cheap kills but for good reasons PVP will/ should not be removed.

I am however more a survivor/ team based player & I think instead of flaming PVP we should be discussing methods/ mechanics that strengthen this play style.

An idea that I think would greatly change the mechanics of teamplayers would be a revive system.. <-- Hold back, I myself am not really fond of the idea at all

There would be exploiting and all sorts of workarounds.

But at the same time it would really create a good incentive for organised teamwork & a higher chance of you surviving from that bullet in your back when your the first in your 'co-op' to find a m4ssd.

As I said, not fully keen on the idea; I like the adrenaline I get knowing its all or nothing.

Just think we should be discussing how to improve what we want, not flaming what is inevitable.

[coolboynaked 0]

No what both of you are doing is equating any PvP as being "CoD" and something negative. To him, anyone who might want to do anything other than group up to kill npc zombies is 12 years old. It's really pathetic and petty.

[funionz 7]

No what both of you are doing is equating any PvP as being "CoD" and something negative. To him' date=' anyone who might want to do anything other than group up to kill npc zombies is 12 years old. It's really pathetic and petty.

[/quote']

What's pathetic is the people who think that's what this mod is about, and bitch whine and complain on the forums and act like we are the assholes for playing the mod the way it's designed.

This mod was designed with the element of human PVP interaction, if you don't like that fact, don't play it. There's plenty other games out there where you and your buddies can team up and fight zombies in a stress-free co-op friendly environment. Hell theres even other Arma mods that do this also, go play those. Just stop coming to this one and telling us our viewpoint is somehow distorted and wrong.

Edit : I'm not directing this towards coolboy, just adding to his argument

[van Grunz 0]

What's pathetic is the people who think that's what this mod is about' date=' and bitch whine and complain on the forums and act like we are the assholes for playing the mod the way it's designed.[/quote']

Yes, it's pathetic, because you're just doing what you don't want others to do:

You don't just disclose your point, you're trying to carry it.

This mod was designed with the element of human PVP interaction' date=' if you don't like that fact, don't play it.[/quote']

Yes, it's an element. An element is, to me, a facet, optional, but not the dominant part in this game.

There's plenty other games out there where you and your buddies can team up and fight zombies in a stress-free co-op friendly environment. Hell theres even other Arma mods that do this also' date=' go play those.[/quote']

Tell me just one which has the flair of @Day Z.

Just stop coming to this one and telling us our viewpoint is somehow distorted and wrong.

As long as you propagate the same nonsense again and again' date=' maybe thinking: [i']If I keep repeating it 100 times, it might come true, I'll have the damn right to say: No! It's not! You're wrong!

Both opinions can be true. Get that. But it's making me sick to see this game going to the dogs by massive PvP'ing. You don't have any exclusive rights, so you are the one who has to stop whining. Oh wait -- I got it: You're a troll! All I've written is completely useless! You never change your mind nor will you stop it. :rolleyes:

[jkingsbury6@hotmail.com 1]

Originally i was really excited to play a game that was as close to possible to a real zombie apocalypse (ZA). However, I don't truly believe that a real Z.A. would have a high saturation of people killing other people on sight. It's not proper roleplaying if you just kill to just kill unless your roleplaying yourself as a murderer that just wants to kill as many people as possible before death (which is lame). I think the game is more of a long DM with zombies than a survival game. Maybe it seems to new players that DMing is the only way to go because that's what it mostly is and the beast feeds itself. Soon that will be all that it is... I will enjoy this game as a deathmatch if i have to.. I do love a good bloody killing spree deathmatch... but what i really want is a more realistic sim of a Z.A. I don't want it to be just a game I want it to be realistic as possible. When the zombies do finally come I doubt there will be snipers in every window shooting more humans than zombies "just for the lulz". they would be one in thousands; most people would work together to survive. The attempt at no rules for the game in effort for a greater level of realism has had the opposite effect. Unfortunately people (kids probably) can't handle playing this game maturely. Therefore we need to encourage survivor play or make bandit play less rewarding. Make all the bandits pink and glow in the dark :) Or at least make it so they can't appear kill you take all your shit and disappear to another server. In other words each server is a different persistent world where items don't transfer. I'm not saying that there aren't bandits who actually roleplay the bandit scenario. i.e. killing for loot or killing for food or killing to take vehicles, necessities etc. I am saying those "good" bandits are vastly outnumbered by shoot on sight types who kill just to kill like its a DM. Its the killing for no reason that i find unrealistic.

I have not given up hope that this game can evolve into a more realistic simulation of a zombie apocalypse. That is what I wan't I can tell I am far from alone.

[G'Kyl 0]

Facing off against enemies controlled by a few hundred lines of AI script performing the same predictable reactions to your behaviors over and over again is "emotional."

Why... yes and no. It is - or can be - to a certain degree if I get into the mood and imagine I'd actually be there and better be careful for the sake of my life. That's the role-playing which I believe Day Z is meant for and which most pro-PvP players in this thread seam to miss.

So' date=' no, the Z themselves and their simple AI are not emotional. But they are one element meant to invoke a certain mindset...

... just like PvP should be just one element in this apocalyptic setting. JUST. ONE. ...

Yes, it's an element. An element is, to me, a facet, optional, but not the dominant part in this game.

For you and some more however it's the only single one dominant part in the game and I too don't believe the mod was designed to be like that.

And that's why the way you play can be annoying for anyone playing Day Z as a role-playing experience:

However' date=' I don't truly believe that a real Z.A. would have a high saturation of people killing other people on sight.[/quote'] Some say, in a Z.A. they would behave just like they do in a Deathmatch game. And to put it mildly, I simply don't think that's true. I mean... come on! ;)

Most of us would probably piss their pants and go cry for our moms. So, maybe Day Z needs a cry button...

Seriously though, I hope you see what we're getting at. In short, it's probably "More role-playing, less ordinary gamey behavior".

[funionz 7]

Both opinions can be true. Get that. But it's making me sick to see this game going to the dogs by massive PvP'ing. You don't have any exclusive rights' date=' so [b']you are the one who has to stop whining. Oh wait -- I got it: You're a troll! All I've written is completely useless! You never change your mind nor will you stop it. :rolleyes:

The only 'going to the dogs' this game has going on is the massive influx of new people like yourself. It was perfectly fine before 90% of you got here.

---

You don't just disclose your point' date=' you're trying to carry it.

[/quote']

Not even sure what you really mean by this, but yeah. I've stated my opinions and points, and offered numerous solutions throughout this entire thread. Don't just pop up after 50 pages and not read any of it, that's your first mistake.

[van Grunz 0]

The only 'going to the dogs' this game has going on is the massive influx of new people like yourself. It was perfectly fine before 90% of you got here.

Feel free to dismiss' date=' finally.

Make your own mod. Make your own rules. Live in your own world (heck, you [b']do that already, but your world isn't compatible with the real one).

Not even sure what you really mean by this' date=' but yeah. I've stated my opinions and points, and offered numerous solutions throughout this entire thread.[/quote']

That's wishful thinking, and, hum, no, you do not state, you even do enforcing. So just now.

Don't just pop up after 50 pages and not read any of it' date=' that's your first mistake.

[/quote']

This comes from someone who did not understand any of my post nor answered any of my questions directly (so I still miss the question about those 'hundreds of other Zombie mods out there'). What are you afraid of? That I discover your despicable attitude? This I know for a long time. And now, I decide not to let you insult me any more. You're disqualified as a serious interlocutor.

[Bucket (DayZ) 0]

Also' date=' can we not go down the ridiculous loop of what is "realistic?" Can we agree once and for all that nobody on present day Earth has the remotest idea what a "realistic" zombie apocalypse would look like?

Can we instead focus on what makes a compelling game, not about whether we're recreating the actual apocalypse?

[/quote']

Those arguments are indeed tiresome and have been retreaded ad nauseam on these boards. However, the tricky thing about each player's opinions about what constitutes a "realistic" zombie apocalypse is that they are inextricably tied to immersion, which is a major element in what makes a game compelling. The degree of KoS in the game is, in my opinion, unrealistic. Therefore, I find it immersion-breaking, and something that makes the game *less* compelling.

Putting aside "realism", however, I would find the game *more* compelling if it did a better job of supporting cooperative interactions between strangers that meet in-game. The KoS mentality makes this kind of thing next to impossible.

(For anyone curious, I do have a couple of friends who play or have played the game, but due to RL we almost never get the chance to play together. Also, meeting people on the forums is fine and all, but it IS immersion-breaking and, in my opinion, a less compelling play style than actually meeting in-game.)

[bami 3]

I tried posting this to the "are you sick of PvP" thread, but a moderator locked it before I could post it, but I also think it applies here.

I think I've found my sweetspot in enjoying DayZ: Remove all the unknown players. A couple of people (one of them hilariously named "anti-rocket"), remade the hive component of dayz to run locally on a MySQL database. I have my old PC running this + arma 2 server hosting dayz with some modifications I made on my own (slower "beefier" zombies, insane zombie spawn rates, night that isn't pitch black), and I just log onto that with 3-4 friends. You need to sneak around because even a group of 4 people armed with makarovs will get totally annihilated by these zombies. Setting up barbed wire in a field actually makes sense, since the slower zombie movement speed makes them glitch way less and are actually obstructed. Holding off a giant zombie horde of 200+ zombies is a very large challenge when it takes two enfield shots to the head for a zombie to fall, which should be the PvE endgame of dayz imho: defend and hold a safe location until supplies run out, then a scavenge run to nearby towns to resupply and set up another safe location.

Even then, I gave the password to this server to some people from work, so there is still a bit of "holy crap there is a dude in the distance, will he shoot?", but no people disconnecting or warping around. I think there is always atleast 4 people on there just running around trying to survive, and the max I've had on this thing is 20 people in 3 groups, with the occasional mexican standoff between two groups.

As long as Rocket wants to be the game hard as crap, while players with very high-tier stuff keep sniping people/generally griefing anyones fun and hackers roaming free around spawning stuff and nuking entire servers, I'd rather stay on my private bit on the internet. And since the server is disconnected from the Hive server and doesn't affect anybody else playing on legit servers, it's no problem for me as admin to just spawn a buttload of makarovs somewhere so everybody is atleast armed.

I think it's just the same with any game that has public and private servers: Public servers are quick fun but there will always be dickheads or hackers ruining the fun, but if you want some serious action, you make sure you frequent a clan server where you know the majority of the playerbase wants the same as you: enjoy the game.

I know I'm probably breaking some rules/EULA stuff, but to be honest I don't really care. The game is a great deal of fun and I got at least 15 people to buy ArmA2:CO, so I think I done my part to help Bohemia make Arma3 as good as possible, and support bohemia and rocket in fixing stuff in Arma 2.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Sounds like you're having fun, bami. More power to you I guess. But, you're not playing DayZ anymore. You're just playing a different game that steals assets and script from DayZ.

You say there's still an element of the unknown, but I hardly think you're really living in fear of your coworkers betraying and murdering you, or stealing your vehicles, or emptying your base, or getting the drop on you while you're distracted fighting zombies, or any of the other myriad of ways in which unknown players can affect your game play.

but if you want some serious action, you make sure you frequent a clan server where you know the majority of the playerbase wants the same as you: enjoy the game.

You can't strip away all the most challenging elements of the game and create an environment of complete safety and security that you have total control over and then call it "serious."

The serious action takes place on legitimate servers. You're playing in the kiddie pool. Which is fine, have fun splashing around and stuff, but serious? No.

[Bucket (DayZ) 0]

I think I've found my sweetspot in enjoying DayZ: Remove all the unknown players. A couple of people (one of them hilariously named "anti-rocket")' date=' remade the hive component of dayz to run locally on a MySQL database. I have my old PC running this + arma 2 server hosting dayz with some modifications I made on my own (slower "beefier" zombies, insane zombie spawn rates, night that isn't pitch black), and I just log onto that with 3-4 friends. You need to sneak around because even a group of 4 people armed with makarovs will get totally annihilated by these zombies. Setting up barbed wire in a field actually makes sense, since the slower zombie movement speed makes them glitch way less and are actually obstructed. Holding off a giant zombie horde of 200+ zombies is a very large challenge when it takes two enfield shots to the head for a zombie to fall, which should be the PvE endgame of dayz imho: defend and hold a safe location until supplies run out, then a scavenge run to nearby towns to resupply and set up another safe location.

[/quote']

A) This sounds amazing.

B) Can I play on this server? :)

---

You can't strip away all the most challenging elements of the game and create an environment of complete safety and security that you have total control over and then call it "serious."

The serious action takes place on legitimate servers. You're playing in the kiddie pool. Which is fine' date=' have fun splashing around and stuff, but serious? No.

[/quote']

I think this depends on how you would define the word "serious." I don't find shits-and-giggles KoS to be very serious. In my opinion, it reinforces the fact that you're playing a game and breaks the immersion that you're in a serious survival situation.