The one and only Anti-PVP/PvP Discussion thread! Whine/discuss here!

[Greg-UK4 31]

If you want an insight into just how many people server hop, have a look at my servers statistics on GameTracker.

http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/81.138.101.165:2302/top_players/?sort=minutes&order=ASC&searchipp=50&searchpge=15#search

There are over 21 pages (50 per page) of people who have played on my server for less than 30m (0.5h).

That's 1050 people, who have joined UK4 then left within 30m

With death messages disabled it's hard to keep track of the amount of deaths occurring on my server but i receive an almost continuous stream of "oh god killed by a server hopper" on our teamspeak.

It's definitely a problem that needs addressing as many people will do the "If you can't beat them, join them" argument and further damage this games play-ability.

[teih 36]

(Yesterday 11:33 PM)Teih Wrote: Really, how can you expect the survivors to go through all of that just to get in contact with a player with common interests? The bandits play a whole different role and as I said naturaly have different approaches to the social aspect of the game.

How can I expect you to put as much effort into meeting some one as I do into getting a kill?

On the one hand, you're saying this is the apocalypse and bandits are playing it like a game (not realistic that there are so many bandits blah blah). On the other, you're saying survivors would (or should be able to) just run out in the open yelling "FRIENDLIES??" like morons.

There are survivors who run around providing medical assistance for other players (see: Dr. Wasteland). There are survivors who are setting up a trade city (see: Freeside Trading Co). There are teamspeak hosts that gather as many players as possible so you can always fine some one to play with. (see: Worlds End Gaming). There are survivors who are hiding in the shadows, killing any murderers they witness. There are survivors who are stealthily avoiding any player, friend or foe. There are survivors who approach strangers with CARE (like they "REALISTICALLY" would, not just turning their back on a stranger with a gun pointed at them).

It takes skill to play this game, no denying. Taking that out of the equation makes the game WORSE, not better. No one should care that you can't run around in the open suicidally approaching anyone you see and turning your back so he can split your skull. And no one does except the morons who do this.

Don't be ignorant.

Having this implemented would not decrease the risk of moving around like a headless chicken, not to mention that often you can't even see if it's a bandit or survivor you're dealing with.

I NEVER said that killing a fellow survivor should be impossible, but it should come with a price. I like the concept of having murderers around.

I find it facinating that you keep defending the current bland nature of this game where socialising is deadlyer than snipers in ghillie suits.

And also, how does encouraging situational teamplay DECREASE the skill required in this game? It's like you assume that if I had it my way, every survivor would have giant pink nametags for every other survivor to see, where you can run around without the slightest care in the world.

No, There would still be killing everywhere, and also murdering. I just want SOME, just SOME encouragement for players to go into situations differently than they do now. In other words, I would like this games pvp to have atleast slight variation to it.

Edit: about the occations where you find players actually playing the game like it's suposed to be played (the ones you mentioned), how often does this happen? have you SEEN it happen?

I for one have not, and whenever I am within chats reach of a player I ALWAYS try to communicate, but pretty much every time they don't respond and start shooting at me just for the heck of it, as they have nothing to lose and would rather see me dead than to risk me being a backstaber. How is this fun or in any way immersive? I honestly do not think you get the point of this game.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

It's definitely a problem that needs addressing as many people will do the "If you can't beat them' date=' join them" argument and further damage this games play-ability.

[/quote']

I would encourage you to join the discussion linked in my sig.

I really feel my solution is a balanced compromise. It strongly discourages server swapping without expressly forbidding it, and does so with minor detriment to legitimate players.

[septuscap 42]

Edit: about the occations where you find players actually playing the game like it's suposed to be played (the ones you mentioned)' date=' how often does this happen? have you SEEN it happen?

I for one have not, and whenever I am within chats reach of a player I ALWAYS try to communicate, but pretty much every time they don't respond and start shooting at me just for the heck of it, as they have nothing to lose and would rather see me dead than to risk me being a backstaber. How is this fun or in any way immersive? I honestly do not think you get the point of this game.

[/quote']

Of course I've seen it, because I take the 5 seconds to hook up with a steam/voip group beforehand you moron.

You're the guy just running straight at the sounds of gunfire and yelling "HI! FRIENDLY?"

[teamRAVEGREEN 9]

Of course I've seen it' date=' because I take the 5 seconds to hook up with a steam/voip group beforehand you moron.

You're the guy just running straight at the sounds of gunfire and yelling "HI! FRIENDLY?"

[/quote']

How is pre-forming your group "beforehand" in any way the same as randomly finding someone and debating whether you shoot them, avoid them or try and be friendly?

Am I misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

[teih 36]

Edit: about the occations where you find players actually playing the game like it's suposed to be played (the ones you mentioned)' date=' how often does this happen? have you SEEN it happen?

I for one have not, and whenever I am within chats reach of a player I ALWAYS try to communicate, but pretty much every time they don't respond and start shooting at me just for the heck of it, as they have nothing to lose and would rather see me dead than to risk me being a backstaber. How is this fun or in any way immersive? I honestly do not think you get the point of this game.

[/quote']

Of course I've seen it, because I take the 5 seconds to hook up with a steam/voip group beforehand you moron.

You're the guy just running straight at the sounds of gunfire and yelling "HI! FRIENDLY?"

Easy with who you're calling a moron here, considering your post is nothing but a bunch of preconceptions.

This is about how meta-gaming should not be required in a game, and no, unfortunately for you I am not one of those players. I have hardly died at all during my time with DayZ (fewer than most I would imagine)as I always make sure I am safe before I act. And I avoid other players like the plague, unless I just happen to bump into one, which is when I try to communicate while making sure they don't have a clear shot at me.

[sevtron 0]

Edit: about the occations where you find players actually playing the game like it's suposed to be played (the ones you mentioned)' date=' how often does this happen? have you SEEN it happen?

I for one have not, and whenever I am within chats reach of a player I ALWAYS try to communicate, but pretty much every time they don't respond and start shooting at me just for the heck of it, as they have nothing to lose and would rather see me dead than to risk me being a backstaber. How is this fun or in any way immersive? I honestly do not think you get the point of this game.

[/quote']

Of course I've seen it, because I take the 5 seconds to hook up with a steam/voip group beforehand you moron.

You're the guy just running straight at the sounds of gunfire and yelling "HI! FRIENDLY?"

Easy with who you're calling a moron here, considering your post is nothing but a bunch of preconceptions.

This is about how meta-gaming should not be required in a game, and no, unfortunately for you I am not one of those players. I have hardly died at all during my time with DayZ (fewer than most I would imagine)as I always make sure I am safe before I act, and I avoid other players like the plague, unless I just happen to bump into one, which is when I try to communicate while making sure they don't have a clear shot at me.

Well said.

[septuscap 42]

This is about how meta-gaming should not be required in a game

Except for bandits where you backwards rationalize some logic for needing meta-gaming.

Edit:

Now' date=' think about real life criminals for a second, or more specificly gang members. Do they trust others in their environment? No. Do they Accept random people into their gangs? No. This is why meta-gaming is required for that type of gameplay, just like joining a real gang requires more than just walking in and asking for a membership (which also is the case for most internet groups/clans).

[/quote']

[teih 36]

This is about how meta-gaming should not be required in a game

Except for bandits where you backwards rationalize some logic for needing meta-gaming.

Survivors cooperating in certain situations makes sense, while in the case of bandits it doesn't. It comes with the playstyle that follows the bandit "persona" or whatever you want to call it, and I am sure most bandits would appreciate keeping the current nature of the game among eachothers for the sake of immersion and character.

It should also be one of the cons of being a bandit, considering how they mostly have everything to gain and nothing to lose, unlike survivors.

This is why I kind of backwards rationalized, but I did explain the reason why meta-gaming among SURVIVORS, which would be most of us, doesn't make any sense, while for a bandit it's simply a part of the experience (at least to me. Feel free to disagree)

Besides, the main issue here is how this affects the game as a whole.

[teih 36]

Edit: I wrote something here about possibly being in the wrong thread, due to the "anti PvP" part of the threads name, as I am not anti PvP at all.

But then I checked the front page and figured it was the correct place after all, so ignore this post. My bad.

[leetje 0]

Ok I didn't read every page but I have a sort of solution.

There is an inbuilt social meter in the game that detects how long you spend in the vicinity of other players without shooting. It will drain like the water meter does, This will make your social meter rise. If your social meter gets too low you will begin to see people and zombies that are not there and hear sounds like footsteps but there will be nothing there.

This should make players group together more and hopefully stop the shoot on sight mentality and actually in real life if people spend too long alone they go nuts so this should reflect this.

[Gruelius 16]

terrible idea. there should be no made up way for psychopaths to be stopped. there should be some real life mechanic that can be implemented for it to work.

the splitting up of roles could work i guess but would punish solo players and wouldnt really stop the "problem" but even as it is its not that bad. its just clans that are playing it competitively that kind of kill the atmpsohere but i guess in real life you would find highly skilled gangs with good weaponry and new recruits they could send on suicide runs.

My suggestion was just to enforce death, make even the best players really not want to die... not sure how but looking forward to what comes from the dayz team!

[mphilippa 43]

Its the PvP that makes DayZ interesting. Well not PvP exactly but the choices you make regarding other players.

Do you trust the guy you just met? Do you shoot on sight? Do you use them as a decoy? Or do you get used etc.

Sure you come across some right pricks who ruin the game, but that's what makes the game. If there wasn't the option to kill or help someone you might as well play by yourself. Helping someone isn't as rewarding if there isn't the option of killing them and taking their supplies. Can't have one without the other.

Personally I prefer to go at it alone. The only person I trust are known friends or unarmed survivors. But even then, when you travel with someone you're not only trusting that they won't kill you, you're trusting that they won't get you killed :P Always assume everyone is an imbecile :dodgy: (including yourself)

[AnteUp 0]

I just find everyone shoots on sight nowerdays like any other pvp game. Its pretty much removed any social aspect to the game and made it a FFA pvp arena with zombies. Without any consequences to being a "serial killer" there is really no reason not try and kill anyone you see for their gear given the difficulty of aquireing gear especially early on.

Long term I do not think this is a good thing as new players suffer (Cherno & Electro are like a bad day in Mogadishu and running North without a map is hard if your new), if you play solo (w/o pre-arranged groups) the game becomes a somewhat lonely experience and you remove one of the more interesting choices presented to a player that made Day Z stand out from the shooter crowd which was moral choice. Additionally there is no real reward for pvping except for more loot which eventually becomes pointless long term.

[zeos 3]

One thing I find interesting with how this game is evolving is how in some ways it is similar to ultima online. except everyone is red and there are no guards in town. I know that sounds contradictory, but when I play and what I see on the forums reminds me of when I used to play UO.

p.s. where do i go to get my chaos body armor?

[funionz 7]

Ok I didn't read every page but I have a sort of solution.

There is an inbuilt social meter in the game that detects how long you spend in the vicinity of other players without shooting. It will drain like the water meter does' date=' This will make your social meter rise. If your social meter gets too low you will begin to see people and zombies that are not there and hear sounds like footsteps but there will be nothing there.

This should make players group together more and hopefully stop the shoot on sight mentality and actually in real life if people spend too long alone they go nuts so this should reflect this.

[/quote']

[Plunkett 0]

After playing the game for a bit I have fallen in love with it. That said, my time spent has gone from the zombie survial game to the bandit survival game. It takes a lot away from the game when the only time you die is from a sniper you never saw that was camping a spot for the whole day. This isn't about surviving the collapse of the world. Its about dodging the people that only take joy out of bringing others misery. I suppose if I didn't have a job, and could spend 10 hours a day playing the game it would be different, but my time is precious to me, and when I only die to bandits in a zombie survival game it seems there needs to be some tweaking. Randomly falling over dead in a field after having the rush of navigating through the town filled with horror makes the experience bitter. Eventually, everyone that plays the game kills on sight. This isn't "our story" this is playing until you find yourselves in the crosshairs of a bandit. Make the game meaningful for both parties, have cities that are PvP enabled with high risk loot rewards, but leave other parts PvE. Bandits could then still lure the unsuspecting to the PvP areas to turn on them, and add more player interaction to the game. I know some people only get joy out of PvP so I don't want to totally take that option away from them, but a large percent of the community want's a zombie survival experience, not a 30 min run until you meat a bandit...or rather meet his long range weapon.

[RaoD_Guitar 0]

after i have read the last 5 or 6 sites here and maybe 2 weeks experience: my thoughts about this pvp thing:

first thing i mentioned was that i expected more coop... till now i only met twice a friendly person: the first died in front of me because he aggroed zeds after writing "hey" to me. second did after 15 minutes or so...

Then i was shot maybe 3 times by snipers. ok this IS annoying at first of course BUT: since then i thought about it and became really careful, not to say paranoid. u know it... avoiding open fields, checking each single corner of a city before going into it, much sneaking etc... and what happened? no more shots , mostly deaths becouse of own stupidity.

Right now i'm in a "ill give it back to them!" mood... and i did and i do. and yes shooting on sight too. but what do you expect? as i wrote somewhere else there was a totally new survivor who joined our 2-man group, really friendly in voicechat, no problems. when we went into a house we let him pick up a shotgun and he shot us from behind at the next situation... so even being friendly for maybe 30mins doesnt make friends... lucky who has a good known friend in ts...

but this is it what makes the game special and so great for me. you will have to get along with snipers, bandits and other survivors, even if its "unfair" or whatever. never ever implement pve/pvp areas! dont punish bandits for murder. if you cant manage to avoid them this is also a thing of skill as many others here said too. if you really want to go safe with a group, i guess you can first ask "reallife" friends or search forums for existing clans/groups!

still i agree with those who want a bigger survival part. after quite a short time you can get all u need to survive (eat and water) without going into cities, by water bottles and hunting knife/matches... ok you can search for vehicles but this could be far more "high end" and also harder over time. dont know how ;(

one short thing about serverhopper: why not give serverchanges a cooldown? like each new connect takes 10 minutes more for one hour for example... this hopping and disconnecting in fights is far more annoying than every bandit...

[Jerry Gruszecki 26]

heh I find this funny, I really enjoy reading posts by people complaining about how this game isnt fare, face it if you want COD then play a COD game. In a zombie apocolypse you would undoubtedly encounter more evil people then good , thats a garentee and this MOD/GAME really plays to the real fact that people will almost always shoot first , ALMOST ALWAYS. other then tweaks to the enviroment the mod is fine, dont make this an arcade game cause its not.

[MeatAbstract 47]

I understand people killing others because:

A: They have a gun

B: They are considered a threat

So when I'm chased down by a guy with an axe, I don't understand the mentality of it. Several times now, I've been killed entering a town/city to get some equipment. What can you possibly gain from killing a newly spawned player? One bandage and One box of painkillers? I think not.

Some men just want to watch the world burn, I guess....

[Alchonis 0]

People in this game kill for the sake of killing, they kill because they can.

This has to stop their is NO defense for it, i play a lot of games and this issue is always present.

When i play an RTS and an ally kills my own tanks, he doesnt do it for stratagey or for survival he does it because he can, because within the constraints of the game he can get away with it.

This is why people kill other people in Dayz, they do it for the hell of it they do it for the sake of it they do it because they can.

I have no problem with pvp for survival reasons but people dont kill for this reason, they kill because they can then they adapt the reasons to fit what they have done.

And as i have said before their is NO defense for it, i cant believe as i read some of these posts that people actually try to defend some of the practices they perform in the game.

[James_X 0]

Twice today I have been shot at by snipers when I had absolutely no equipment. One time I was missed and started sprinting away, zig zagging to avoid fire. About 500 meters from the original shot area I thought I was safe, but the person in Ghillie had hunted me down. He looked at me for a moment, then gunned me down with his pistol. I understand shooting on sight, when I see someone else in a building or with a weapon I invariably take them down, but to sit in the bush sniping unarmed players with a bandage and painkillers is just retarded.

Shooting on site should only be when seeing people is a surprise, not deliberately waiting for people to see so you can shoot them. The type of punishments I would like to see for cold blooded killing is a return of the humanity meter, which in some way makes it easier for zombies to detect you as you become more 'inhumane'.

This is not a deathmatch, it's survival, and if a real zombie apocalypse occurred I highly doubt there would be many people sitting in bushes killing innocent people, I think they would be taking out zombies.

Also I think leaving a server while bleeding should warrant death, as often people I've seen have just cut out of the server while bleeding to avoid death, which is stupid.

And to people that say 'go play COD derp', in COD people camp with sniper rifles in bushes to kill people without caring about the actual objective, so I don't see your point.

[Kineath 0]

People in this game kill for the sake of killing' date=' they kill because they can.

This has to stop their is NO defense for it, i play a lot of games and this issue is always present.

When i play an RTS and an ally kills my own tanks, he doesnt do it for stratagey or for survival he does it because he can, because within the constraints of the game he can get away with it.

This is why people kill other people in Dayz, they do it for the hell of it they do it for the sake of it they do it because they can.

I have no problem with pvp for survival reasons but people dont kill for this reason, they kill because they can then they adapt the reasons to fit what they have done.

And as i have said before their is NO defense for it, i cant believe as i read some of these posts that people actually try to defend some of the practices they perform in the game.

[/quote']

My guess is that people will do anything in a game simply because they can, as there are no moral boundaries. As this is the Internet, people can not see the direct consequence of their own actions. So they do not see how annoying it can be for people who do not want to go around killing everyone they see, and want to simulate how to survive in a zombie apocalups, to be shot everytime you meet someone.

[Kageru 18]

PK's do it because they know there's a real life person on the other side not enjoying their gaming. The idea of people raging, quitting or crying on the forum because of their actions is the game they play and the motivation to invest hours of time. Zombies are boring to them because they are both no challenge and don't care when they get wtfpwn'd. Roleplaying a "zombie survivor" is equally alien.

They adore Day-z because there's lots of noobs, the game is full of exploits, they can gear up to give themselves a massive advantage so they rarely die (sniper rifles being the preferred weapon, even better if you don't even see them), dying sets their target back and there's no repercussions from playing this way. If you wanted to design a game to make the PK community wet themselves it would probably look something like day-z.

[Mr. Pink 31]

I understand people killing others because:

A: They have a gun

B: They are considered a threat

So when I'm chased down by a guy with an axe' date=' I don't understand the mentality of it. Several times now, I've been killed entering a town/city to get some equipment. What can you possibly gain from killing a newly spawned player? One bandage and One box of painkillers? I think not.

Some men just want to watch the world burn, I guess....

[/quote']

I read the axe part and chuckled quite a bit; guess I was picturing a survivor Patrick Bateman.

I feel ya though, man, it does make you fear for our future. ;-)