Excited for Shotguns!

[Rōnin Rick 98]

Hey guys, so this is my first ARMA/DayZ game, and over the past month I've had tons of fun (aside from the occasional death-inducing bug; I'm looking at you clipping through a wall and falling to my death while running down a stairwell...)!

 

What I'm curious about is how shotguns perform in ARMA games. They're typically gimped in most FPS games like Halo, COD, and what I used to play, Battlefield. They can't kill anything beyond 5 meters.

 

So in these ARMA/DayZ games, are the shotguns actually realistically portrayed? Can I expect to kill people from ~50 meters with buckshot? What tends to be most effective, buck or slugs?

 

Do you expect the shotgun to be competitive with the M4? I'm assuming the M4 will still tend to be the superior choice, however the shotgun will probably be easier (without server hopping... ugh) to acquire as it will likely be a residential spawn; it is a civilian pump-action, yes? Probably like a Remington or a Mossberg?

 

Also, how do you predict the sawn-off version will compare to the pre-hacksawed version?

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Edited January 19, 2014 by Rōnin Rick

[Space Milk 195]

Yes it is realistically portrayed.

I would say they could even hit up to 100 meters, shotguns are very accurate.

I believe it could be competitive, and iyou will see less m4's as shotty will be more common and fill similar roles.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Space Milk

[twingunz 308]

I think shotguns are portrayed better in arma than most games, a lot of people complain the spread is too narrow in arma 2 but i never had an issue with it (considering shotgun spread in most games is a joke) so *shrug* sawn-off i imagine will be a pistol (slot) and have 2-3 times spread

Edited January 19, 2014 by twingunz

[Areos (DayZ) 106]

I'm excited for any increase in weapon variability. I'm looking forward to brandishing myself a boomstick the next time I respawn on the coastline.

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

I think the first shotgun will be a double barrel, breach type shotgun, not a pump. So I am hoping the power is high, especially with slugs within 50 yards or so.

 

The sawn off should have a ton of power with buck shot at very close range. The main benefit IMO will be the length will be easier to handle indoors.

[noblue 27]

I don't think a short range weapon is really worthwhile as your primary weapon (at least if you have other options)

 

hopefully the sawed off version will count as a sidearm

[somethingbloody 118]

With the current accuracy of the M4? I reckon they'll have similar engagement ranges. The shotgun might actually be easier for wounding at range depending on the spread. I imagine a one hit kill with one would have to be in close range and land most of the shot in the head and chest.

If you can put the sawn off in a chest holster that would be pretty bad-arse.

Edited January 19, 2014 by somethingbloody

[fitzee 248]

Hi.

 

From my somewhat limited use of shotguns in DayZ/ArmA, I'd say slug is more effective further out, buckshot has/had some weird behaviors.

 

I'm hoping they implement a way to unload both barrels at once. Both barrels of buckshot from the sawn-off version at pointblank range would be amusing.

 

Regards.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Romeo Foxtrot

[Zollicoffer 200]

I would say it's probably going to be a side-by-side double barrel, not pump.

 

Now when people ask "are you happy to see me or are you hiding a sawed off shotgun in your pants?" I can actually be hiding a sawed off shotgun in my pants.

[soulfirez 901]

Hi.

 

From my somewhat limited use of shotguns in DayZ/ArmA, I'd say slug is more effective further out, buckshot has/had some weird behaviors.

 

I'm hoping they implement a way to unload both barrels at once. Both barrels of buckshot from pointblank range should be amusing.

 

Regards.

well i hope this to the only side by side shot gun i have fired belongs to my farther ( he is in his mid 80s) and it is a standard staged trigger so if you pull hard it pretty much fires both at once ( yes techinquely there is a slight delay but you dont notice) id only attempt it 1 if your strong 2 it your target is close the old boys kicks like a mule fired this way ...

[twingunz 308]

I don't think a short range weapon is really worthwhile as your primary weapon (at least if you have other options)

 

hopefully the sawed off version will count as a sidearm

That's what the OP was meaning tho as irl a shotgun isn't a 'short range' weapon it's a medium to long range however games just give them crazy spread to make them more balanced and less OP, just look up shotgun range videos and you'll see how underpowered they are in games :)

[noblue 27]

That's what the OP was meaning tho as irl a shotgun isn't a 'short range' weapon it's a medium to long range however games just give them crazy spread to make them more balanced and less OP, just look up shotgun range videos and you'll see how underpowered they are in games :)

though shotguns in real life have a longer effective range than shotguns in games, they still have much shorter effective ranges than full length rifles and carbines

 

since survival is the goal in dayz, range is extremely important imo

[soulfirez 901]

though shotguns in real life have a longer effective range than shotguns in games, they still have much shorter effective ranges than full length rifles and carbines

 

since survival is the goal in dayz, range is extremely important imo

Ah not mention you need to be able to hit something in 2 shots vs x mount in rifle clip ( 60 for double mag)

 

But as a medium range weapon in game if your good you can do alright ( time to practice i am bettng you will find more shotguns than high grade mil weapons the further we go lol ..

[Rōnin Rick 98]

I'm excited for any increase in weapon variability. I'm looking forward to brandishing myself a boomstick the next time I respawn on the coastline.

I remember playing Gears of War 3 Horde mode and we would call the sawed-off shotty my 'get-the-fuck-off-me stick". Lol.

[Rōnin Rick 98]

I would say it's probably going to be a side-by-side double barrel, not pump.

 

Now when people ask "are you happy to see me or are you hiding a sawed off shotgun in your pants?" I can actually be hiding a sawed off shotgun in my pants.

a dick-joke and Bill Murray avatar pic?

 

Here sir, have my beans!

Edited January 19, 2014 by Rōnin Rick

[Gekkonidae 270]

From my experiences with the Mod shotgun, it seems accurately portrayed. It was actually one of my favorite weapons in urban combat. I cannot tell you how many times I dropped an AK in favor of a shotty in a city battle just because it felt cooler. Scored some pretty nice kills with them too. 

 

I'm not sure about the SA, but I do know that with the mod, they couldn't calculate damage per single "pellet", so they had to make them all the same damage. All that told me is "why use a slug then if it does the same damage with more spread with pellets?", so I've always used pellets and then slugs when i ran out of pellets. They seem pretty decent for about 100 meters imo, but their effectiveness seems to start to drop pretty drastically after that. I think I've landed a couple of kills outside of 100m, but not too often.

 

I'm pretty damn excited about having a shotgun! I will likely drop my decked out Mosin as soon as I find one. I've been saving up shells :)

 

I'm really interested to see the effective range of the sawed off. I'm sure much less, but that 3-4x spread has got to be pretty badass!! Imagine being held up and taking out 2-3 guys at once with that thing. "Surprise, bitch!"

Edited January 19, 2014 by Gekkonidae

[wartzilla 182]

A sawn-off shotgun wouldn't have much more 'spread'. It would just have a lower muzzle velocity, so the effective range would be shorter.

[Rōnin Rick 98]

From my experiences with the Mod shotgun, it seems accurately portrayed. It was actually one of my favorite weapons in urban combat. I cannot tell you how many times I dropped an AK in favor of a shotty in a city battle just because it felt cooler. Scored some pretty nice kills with them too. 

 

I'm not sure about the SA, but I do know that with the mod, they couldn't calculate damage per single "pellet", so they had to make them all the same damage. All that told me is "why use a slug then if it does the same damage with more spread with pellets?", so I've always used pellets and then slugs when i ran out of pellets. They seem pretty decent for about 100 meters imo, but their effectiveness seems to start to drop pretty drastically after that. I think I've landed a couple of kills outside of 100m, but not too often.

 

I'm pretty damn excited about having a shotgun! I will likely drop my decked out Mosin as soon as I find one. I've been saving up shells :)

 

I'm really interested to see the effective range of the sawed off. I'm sure much less, but that 3-4x spread has got to be pretty badass!! Imagine being held up and taking out 2-3 guys at once with that thing. "Surprise, bitch!"

That's really interesting if the slugs were only as powerful as individual buckshot pellets. lol. Hopefully that is not the case. Slugs are fucking devastating IRL, and you should be able to kill someone with them in-game with a single slug from any range you could hit them from without optics. I'm definitely looking forward to using a weapon that I can change ammo type with for some variety and versatility!

Edited January 19, 2014 by Rōnin Rick

[-Gews- 7443]

So in these ARMA/DayZ games, are the shotguns actually realistically portrayed?

Mmmmmmmmmm

I'll talk about ARMA 2 first.

Effective range somewhere about 100m with slugs, 50m with pellets. This was due to large drop and time of flight. Accuracy about 10 MOA. Slugs were weak shit for two reasons:

-one, slugs have horrible aerodynamics so it lost a lot of damage over range (lost 40% at 100m).

-two, they gave slugs very low initial damage, seemingly forgetting it's a 1-oz .70 caliber projectile.

This meant pellets were better since you could score a head shot. 9 pellets, pellet spread about 10 inches at 10 yards (25 cm at 9 m).

.

For some reason the M1014 took a very long time between shots, only 2 shots per second. The AA-12 was pretty silly and could kill people at very long range by pellet saturation.

More realistic than most games, but still problems.

AS FOR THE STANDALONE

Last time I checked, it was HORRIFYING to see how unrealistic things were. No attempt was made to keep things real. NONE.

First off, the shotguns have a muzzle velocity of almost 3,000 ft/s. I don't understand how anyone could see that and not instantly realize something is terribly wrong, but it's in there. This would give an extra, oh, say 100-150 meters to the effective range...

...if accuracy wasn't decreased to insane levels - shotguns aren't particularly accurate, but I actually took a screenshot for posterity because I couldn't believe the accuracy value they gave it. For comparison, it's 1200 times worse than the Mosin, 100 times worse than the Magnum, and the Magnum has over a foot of dispersion at a mere 12 yards.

Adding to this, for some reason the shotguns are configured to zoom less than other weapons - apparently you have keener eyesight when holding a pistol. What even?

I know I sound extremely critical, but I have damned good reasons!

All this is of course subject to change, so hopefully some dev goes in there at some point and actually makes these things conform to reality and the laws of physics!

Until then I weep (more like rage) at the desecration of the weapons in this game.

 

Also, how do you predict the sawn-off version will compare to the pre-hacksawed version?

From what I saw last? It will be exactly the same but it will take up less space.

How should it perform? The barrel is shorter so it should have less velocity. Since it's a shotgun this wouldn't matter too much. Contrary to popular belief sawing off the barrel does not significantly increase spread. Since it lacks a stock it should have far worse accuracy, far worse recoil, a shooter will not be nearly as effective with one as he would with a full-size shotgun. The only reason to saw it that short is for concealment. It would be a more effective weapon if it had retained the stock and had gone with a "riot length" barrel.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Gews

[Rōnin Rick 98]

@Gews

 

You should really consider starting a thread about the shotguns so the devs can see it!

 

I too want to see the shotguns be useful and realistic and have a role.

 

You have my beans.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Rōnin Rick

[-Gews- 7443]

@Gews

 

You should really consider starting a thread about the shotguns so the devs can see it!

 

I too want to see the shotguns be useful and realistic and have a role.

 

You have my beans.

 

 

I fully expect them to change the accuracy before we get shotguns, because with the current value you wouldn't be able to reliably hit a person who was less than an inch away (no, I'm not exaggerating, I actually tried it in ARMA a while back).

 

 

I don't expect them to change the 900 m/s muzzle velocities - I don't expect it. It might happen, might not.

 

 

The .357 Magnum still shoots at an absurd 930 m/s (3,050 ft/s) so I don't have much hope of them doing it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have made threads on accuracy and ballistics, etc, maybe I'll make one for shotguns, but I'll wait until they're introduced first because they will likely make some changes.

[Furtherado 100]

 

Seeing as this guy can hit a torso-sized target at 45 yards (about 40 meters?) with a SAWN-OFF double-barreled shotgun (with slugs)

i would think that hitting targets at medium to semi-long range with a shottie shouldn`t be a problem with good aim. 

 

My experience using a shottie in the DayZ mod, they`re pretty reliable at ranges that would be realistic for them, so hopefully that will be reflected in game. 

[-Gews- 7443]

What the fuck!

 

 

 

 

 

Four times?

 

The sawn-off version still has 12 inch barrels.

 

Four times?

 

Did he mean 1.4 times?

 

Four times?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still, I'm not opposed to being able to saw off shotguns provided ... it isn't handled in a "Hollywood" fashion with exaggerated spread ...

 

I was worried about this ages ago and it seems to be coming true.

 

Ragerageragerage.