[POLL] - 3PP / 1PP and seeing round corners

[Areos (DayZ) 106]

The need for third person view is too deeply-ingrained into the functionality of the game as of now. Trying to remove 3PP is going to be met with significant backlash because of how generally clunky the alternative, playing exclusively in first person view, can be. Nerfing it instead of removing it risks inhibiting basic functionality of how 3PP works, which is the main drawback already associated with 1PP.

 

I and many others won't get on board with the idea of nerfing/removing 3PP until the alternative, which is making 1PP tolerable to play in long-term, is remedied. Let's be honest here; for all things the original mod and standalone do well in terms of portraying and executing an open world, the close quarter environments and controls lag significantly behind any other typical FPS game. Using 3PP helps make this handicap more tolerable.

 

Believe me when I say, for reasons including immersion and increased tension, that I feel DayZ would function a lot better if it were exclusively 1PP. But this cannot happen until the issues regarding 1PP are fixed entirely, which I personally don't see happening ever.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Yeah I said that:

You said that:

And so it went on.

You are clearly getting pissed and may think to drive me away, but I know who's looking silly and that's not me.

 

I'm not getting pissed at all. I'm getting sick of reading the same things repeated by you over and over in the fix thread. You're bringing nothing new to the discussion. That's not to say you didn't bring anything to it ever, but after you shared your opinion, you never left, you just kept repeating it and repeating it. It's to the point where I know your opinion as much as you do. The same thing happened in the old thread and I'm not going to point the finger at only you, but you helped get that shit locked. I'd rather not have the fix thread locked, so I suggested people stop responding to your posts because it's going in circles.

 

What that has to do with you voting in this poll, I'm not entirely sure. You acted like there was no option because we wanted to censor your opinion by leaving out your stance. I tried to tell you that thinking there's nothing wrong with third person is taking the stance of "not wanting a solution", then you took offense I guess, and acted like I was putting you down.

 

I don't want to drive you away, but I often wonder if that's your goal, to get people to hate you.

[schmotto 32]

I wouldn't be adverse to it being fixed.  Definately want to play in third person mode for general play, first person for shoot outs.

 

No idea what the solutions are but if they work go for it!

[floj 393]

The need for third person view is too deeply-ingrained into the functionality of the game as of now. Trying to remove 3PP is going to be met with significant backlash because of how generally clunky the alternative, playing exclusively in first person view, can be. Nerfing it instead of removing it risks inhibiting basic functionality of how 3PP works, which is the main drawback already associated with 1PP.

 

I and many others won't get on board with the idea of nerfing/removing 3PP until the alternative, which is making 1PP tolerable to play in long-term, is remedied. Let's be honest here; for all things the original mod and standalone do well in terms of portraying and executing an open world, the close quarter environments and controls lag significantly behind any other typical FPS game. Using 3PP helps make this handicap more tolerable.

 

Believe me when I say, for reasons including immersion and increased tension, that I feel DayZ would function a lot better if it were exclusively 1PP. But this cannot happen until the issues regarding 1PP are fixed entirely, which I personally don't see happening ever.

The main issues for 1PP are all solvable problems and indeed should be solved at the same time as they're solved for 3PP (sound design, framerate, mouse acceleration, wall clipping). But thanks for responding :)

[Ken Bean 175]

I'm not getting pissed at all. I'm getting sick of reading the same things repeated by you over and over in the fix thread. You're bringing nothing new to the discussion. That's not to say you didn't bring anything to it ever, but after you shared your opinion, you never left, you just kept repeating it and repeating it. It's to the point where I know your opinion as much as you do. The same thing happened in the old thread and I'm not going to point the finger at only you, but you helped get that shit locked. I'd rather not have the fix thread locked, so I suggested people stop responding to your posts because it's going in circles.

 

What that has to do with you voting in this poll, I'm not entirely sure. You acted like there was no option because we wanted to censor your opinion by leaving out your stance. I tried to tell you that thinking there's nothing wrong with third person is taking the stance of "not wanting a solution", then you took offense I guess, and acted like I was putting you down.

 

I don't want to drive you away, but I often wonder if that's your goal, to get people to hate you.

Sorry, I somehow missed the news explotion you caused lately.

So some of you think 3rd person is an exploit and needs to be fixed? Joining a first person server is no option for ya, indeed great news.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Sorry, I somehow missed the news explotion you caused lately.

So some of you think 3rd person is an exploit and needs to be fixed? Joining a first person server is no option for ya, indeed great news.

 

Whatever bud.

[floj 393]

Another thread about Ken yay. The whole point of the poll is to prevent the vocal people from shouting down those who's opinions matter just as much.

 

i.e. Please just do the poll, state your piece then go back to the discussion thread ^^

[Areos (DayZ) 106]

The main issues for 1PP are all solvable problems and indeed should be solved at the same time as they're solved for 3PP (sound design, framerate, mouse acceleration, wall clipping). But thanks for responding :)

 

I'd be legitimately impressed and happy if they fixed all of the issues regarding 1PP gameplay, but my realistic side tells me that the developers will put greater emphasis into fixing and implementing new content into the alpha over fixing 1PP issues that are already resolved by using 3PP instead.

 

If these issues were so easily fixed, I would have expected them to be fixed before this game even reached the open alpha state it's in now, especially when they affect important issues like proper controls and navigation through crowded corridors.

[TangoAlpha 39]

Didn't rocket say that they would be looking into the 3PP issue and also looking at ways to make 1PP better so neither view has an advantage (not entirely sure but I remember reading something about it)? I'm not sure how it would be done, but they are clearly aware of it and exploring different options. Removing 3PP is just a ridiculous thing to want in my opinion. I prefer BOTH views, and as it is now, having the servers separated is perfectly fine. 

Edited January 17, 2014 by Foxhunt

[zhrike 264]

I don't understand how 3PP is an exploit since all players on such servers have the same options. On 3PP:ON servers everyone can use the same functionality, and that's what it is at that point, functionality. On 1PP servers it is not an option, obviously. 

 

I don't believe that 3PP allows people to gear up any easier, as the playing field is leveled in that regard. If you go on a 3PP:ON server and play only 1PP you are giving yourself a disadvantage. Plus: we're all going to die in game (and out, eventually).

 

And this isn't about my preferences; I prefer 1PP mostly due to the types of players on those servers. It seems to attract a certain type of skill level. I don't expect as much noobish, senseless spawn-camping and KoS. Senseless KoS, that is. Just to be clear. KoS has its place, too. That said, on a 3PP server I will play 3PP except for those moments when I think 1PP offers an advantage (melee, looting, for example). 

 

I think there are exploits in the game, and most of them are beyond the control of the Devs.  Having the ability to toggle 3PP and 1PP at the server level seems like a good solution to those who feel emotionally connected to either side of this argument.

 

I didn't vote because there were no options for my opinion, which is: I play either, and don't think 3PP is an exploit.

[floj 393]

Foxhunt:

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1kzy02/sa_gamescom_gameplay_with_rocket_gamestar_10min/cbuomj7?context=3

 

Fukkit:

dammit I knew I'd missed out some options :) Not gonna go into an explanation here but read the discussion OP if you want to see why it's considered an exploit by some

[zhrike 264]

Foxhunt:

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1kzy02/sa_gamescom_gameplay_with_rocket_gamestar_10min/cbuomj7?context=3

 

Fukkit:

dammit I knew I'd missed out some options :) Not gonna go into an explanation here but read the discussion OP if you want to see why it's considered an exploit by some

 

Totally cool, and I do understand what is "exploity" about it. The issue I have with calling it an exploit is the fact that all players have the same potential to use it. If some did, and some didn't, for example if some players were forced to play 1PP on 3PP servers, then yes, I'd agree that it should be regarded as an exploit. But the fact that all players can look over walls and around corners just makes it an unrealistic advantage. On 3PP servers you just know that in certain situations you will be seen by people you cannot see, and act accordingly. 

 

The fourth wall is interesting. Not sure what I think about it yet, as it might be immersion breaking, but looking over a two meter wall while crouched beside it should be as well.

 

Edit: read some of rockets comments on the issue. I love the idea of 1PP being enforced while prone, and also the lowering of the camera angle for 3PP would also be good.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Fukkit

[TangoAlpha 39]

Foxhunt:

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1kzy02/sa_gamescom_gameplay_with_rocket_gamestar_10min/cbuomj7?context=3

 

Ah, thanks for that! I look forward to being able to see those changes or even play with those changes at some point. There are some advantages when using 3PP such as being prone, but in general I don't think there's anything wrong (like how some people around are saying the entire view itself is an exploit). The first person when prone and OTS while crouched make sense.

[gamer222 86]

idk how you look at exploit, I mean we use same view it's balanced if I can see it you can see it same too...well now if u are bad at this game of course I will outsmart u and kill you, it's your mistake cuz u didn't pay attention, it's not exploit it's skill....

[Ken Bean 175]

I don't understand how 3PP is an exploit since all players on such servers have the same options. On 3PP:ON servers everyone can use the same functionality, and that's what it is at that point, functionality. On 1PP servers it is not an option, obviously.

I don't believe that 3PP allows people to gear up any easier, as the playing field is leveled in that regard. If you go on a 3PP:ON server and play only 1PP you are giving yourself a disadvantage. Plus: we're all going to die in game (and out, eventually).

And this isn't about my preferences; I prefer 1PP mostly due to the types of players on those servers. It seems to attract a certain type of skill level. I don't expect as much noobish, senseless spawn-camping and KoS. Senseless KoS, that is. Just to be clear. KoS has its place, too. That said, on a 3PP server I will play 3PP except for those moments when I think 1PP offers an advantage (melee, looting, for example).

There apparently is an issue with joining the the server according to their preference.

[wild_man 4442]

I vote I play 1pp only

 

and solution is remove 3pp

 

reasons - it take more away from the game than it give

 

what it give to dayz experience

ability to look on your character (inventory and character screen giving this) :|

ability to see without expose yourself to danger (nice exploit tool) :| 

 

what it take away from dayz experience

it remove credibility of pvP make it arcade comedy style game  :D

it remove dignity of guys who stupidly try to play stealth tactic way for no reason :huh:

[Atomizer 53]

idk how you look at exploit, I mean we use same view it's balanced if I can see it you can see it same too...well now if u are bad at this game of course I will outsmart u and kill you, it's your mistake cuz u didn't pay attention, it's not exploit it's skill....

It is exploitable, in first person only, if you can see someone, they can see you, there is absolutely no way around that.

In third person(assuming everyone is using third person, and thus "using the same view"), just because you can see them, doesn't mean they can see you, the simple nature of being able to stand at a corner and see everything around the corner, there is no way another player using third person will even know you were there, no amount of spinning their own view around will see you hidden around that corner, and yes you could argue they could also hide around a corner, so now you have 2 people, who cannot see each other, and whoever breaks cover first, loses.

That is the "exploit" part of it, and of course those who try to play in first person, are at a huge disadvantage, because they have to peek around corners and expose themselves, I don't know why anyone would do that with the existing third person system.

I don't see any issues with the first person view myself, in fact, many things right now, only work in first person, like the compass, and for that, and the exploiting I mentioned above, I now play on first person servers exclusively.

Will I go back if third person is "fixed"? No, probably not, I prefer first person, and it works pretty well in SA currently, obviously not without issues, and I would like a 1:1 mouse ratio, but otherwise it is my preferred view for this kind of game.

 

Edit:

Oh, and just wanted to add that when there was no first person option, I did get used to using third person, but mostly stuck to first person except for when near towns and places with possibility of running into other players, or if I am in first person and see another player, I will go third person. When the first person only servers came out and I swapped to them, I found myself pressing enter a few times, it took some time to adjust back to first person only, but it is a much better experience, in my opinion.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Atomizer

[Hutch (DayZ) 116]

If everyone can do it, it's not an exploit. It's game design.

IRL, if I want to peek around a corner, I don't have to expose my whole head.

It's also possible IRL to see someone when they have no way to see you. Small openings in doors or curtains, etc, which there is no way to replicate in the game.

 

This is the reason there are servers dedicated to 1PP only. Don't like 3PP, stick to 1PP only servers.

Debate over.

 

There are many things you can't do in the game that you can do IRL.

3PP is meant to compensate for the loss of peripheral vision and other limitations of the game.

 

My biggest problem with 1PP is that you can't freelook to the rear to see what's behind you.

IRL I can turn my head 90 degrees, my eyes 30-45 degrees and my waist another 30-45 degrees to see what's behind me while I'm running forward.

Peripheral vision gives me a good idea what's around me without having to turn my head.

In 1PP you don't have that and you lose alot of situational awareness.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Hutch

[floj 393]

You can freelook behind you in 1PP...so it sucks to wear a mountain backpack if you do, no such disadvantage for the 3PP players at the moment.

 

Peripheral vision is more or less identical since fov is the same for each - the only difference is for 1-2m either side of your character. If someone's snuck up that close to you, 1/3PP is the least of your worries.

 

The only other awareness problem imo is sound design, that should be fixed for 3PP and 1PP cuz it's still in alpha state at teh moment, much like the viewing mechanics/game design and the rest of the game. Saying that 3PP works as it is because 'game design' when we're still in the alpha stage sounds very premature to me.

 

As already discussed, separating the playerbase isn't a good solution (balancing for pve/separating friends with different preferences)

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

You again. And you open up with a loaded question, like most people who make these daft "polls", calling it an exploit when not everyone agrees with your definition.

 

For this reason I am not voting, but also because none of the answers apply to me. Here is what I would vote if it were there:

1. I primarily use 1PP but also sometimes use 3PP, if a friend prefers to play 3PP or if my preferred server has rebooted as 3PP by accident.

2. Any "solutions" are fine by me so long as they are new server options and the current option remains. Choice is not a bad thing.

[Ken Bean 175]

Saying that 3PP works as it is because 'game design' when we're still in the alpha stage sounds very premature to me.

As already discussed, separating the playerbase isn't a good solution (balancing for pve/separating friends with different preferences)

No, actually the the 3rd person works and is game design. A game design me and others do like. A game design that has proven to be enjoyable and successful.

Separating the hives also works. Its gamedesignwhise the best solution.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ken Bean

[pacific_coast 632]

EVERYONE IS FORGETTING ABOUT VEHICLES.

 

Yes, someone on the Elektro Hospital roof can lay prone and spot the entire city for his whole team, and never be seen.

 

Yes, you can be killed outside the fire station because someone hid around the corner, leaning with 3PP on, and quickly killed you.

You never saw them, you could have never seen them and they had the drop on you due to a camera exploit.

 

This is major BS, but I've dealt with it since the MOD.

Deal with it.

3PP off servers are the compromise.

 

I want to be able to land my heli/ drive my car without killing everyone inside it, or damaging it beyond repair.

Mod players: you know you don't drive/fly first person unless you are experienced.

New players trying to drive/fly in 1st person are going to waste alot of vehicle spawns.

 

3PP is needed for vehicles.

Edited January 17, 2014 by pacific_coast

[BL1P 252]

No, actually the the 3rd person works and is game design. A game design me and others do like. A game design that has proven to be enjoyable and successful.

Obviously not or there wouldn't have been so many debates on the subject. Over the past 12 years. :)

 

I dislike 3rd always have done.

So I always when possible play on 1st only servers. have done since Operation Flashpoint.

But hey if its on other servers I don't use, that's fine by me.

 

What I wouldn't like is if they attempted some half assed fix on 3rd and made all servers 3rd.

So atm from my own point of view.

 

Separate servers with separate hives is good.

Fixing :) 3rd and still keeping separate servers and hives is good.

Fixing :) 3rd and making all servers 3rd is bad.

Fixing :) 3rd and making all servers 1st only would be funny.

[floj 393]

You again. And you open up with a loaded question, like most people who make these daft "polls", calling it an exploit when not everyone agrees with your definition.

Fair point, reworded the poll with 'ability to see around cover' instead of 'exploit' not sure if it changes much but it's done.

[BL1P 252]

 

3PP is needed for vehicles.

Incorrect

3PP makes using vehicles easier it is not essential.

Also it looks very much like mirrors are coming into DayZ from ArmaA3 (check the .cfg for the pip line)

Even better would be if the stances came in as well then looking over a small wall would be less dangerous

Edited January 17, 2014 by BL1P