We NEED some way to identify heros and bandits.

[komadose 190]

lots of crap was poured over the guy who started this topic but he is kind of right.

 

you say in real life there is no way to distinct bad guy from good guy. you are wrong - in most cases there is. we are learning this skill all our life and it is called observation. We can rather quickly decide if the guy we met few minutes ago is a threat or not. It is how he looks, how he moves, smiles and talk. It is how he looks.

 

Have you ever met hardened criminal? Or a drug junkie? Or a murderer (they say you are passing by a murderer seven times in your life on average)? You probably could say that something is not right with this guy, same with someone who is just pretends to be friendly.

 

You can do lot of these things in DayZ - you can hear what and how guy talks, you can see what gear he has etc,etc.  The only problem is that in most cases the other guy is so scared (let's be honest - 90% of KoS is because someone is scared of losing their m4) that he tries to kill you first.

 

There are few solutions to this:

-people become more experienced, so they are no longer scared of losing their gear as they know how to get it back

-make guns/ammo more scarce so there is smaller possibility of two armed people to meet.

-make helmets do their job, so freshspawns cannot knock out a person with one hit. axes should be able to do it though.

-more zombies which respond to gun fire and are more deadly - so shooting at someone is the LAST RESORT (this will promote freshspawns attacking geared up players)

 

am I missing something here?

"they say you are passing by a murderer seven times in your life on average"

exactly, and you have no idea when this happens. you just shot yourself in the knee. most criminals know how to play nice with people to get them to lower their guard.

 

best solution to stop KoSing; make it extremely scary to move alone in Chernarus = shitloads of hard enemies. people would be so happy to meet other players and help eachother out.

 

i only shoot other players because i'm so goddamn bored.

[ghua 44]

exactly, and you have no idea when this happens. you just shot yourself in the knee. most criminals know how to play nice with people to get them to lower their guard.

Well, not really. not sure about you but I am not going around in real life trying to figure out who is a murderer, lol.

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

There's a million reasons to shoot someone.

 

Right now there's no reason not to.

 

Hence, the servers are full of KOS.

 

Hell, I'd even be fine if you could DESTROY your armband, as long as it's NOT a lootable item.  If you don't want an armband, rip it up.

 

Heros and civs would probably keep theirs on.  KOSers would rip theirs off.

 

Problem solved.  You don't HAVE to wear it.

[komadose 190]

There's a million reasons to shoot someone.

 

Right now there's no reason not to.

 

Hence, the servers are full of KOS.

 

Hell, I'd even be fine if you could DESTROY your armband, as long as it's NOT a lootable item.  If you don't want an armband, rip it up.

 

Heros and civs would probably keep theirs on.  KOSers would rip theirs off.

 

Problem solved.  You don't HAVE to wear it.

i would obviously wear a hero armband if i were a bandit to make my job easier. so it's a fail.

[PityLovesYou 7]

There's a million reasons to shoot someone.

 

Right now there's no reason not to.

 

Hence, the servers are full of KOS.

 

Hell, I'd even be fine if you could DESTROY your armband, as long as it's NOT a lootable item.  If you don't want an armband, rip it up.

 

Heros and civs would probably keep theirs on.  KOSers would rip theirs off.

 

Problem solved.  You don't HAVE to wear it.

So you want people to play dress up. I explained how your entire thing here is flawed a few pages ago. See here (http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/165426-we-need-some-way-to-identify-heros-and-bandits/?p=1701886)

 

Not one person who you consider a 'bandit' or 'KOSer' will abide to this. I would gladly join your server, take your hero armband, find you and try to kill you as fast as possible.

 

You CANNOT just simply implement this system, you want a dev team of people who still have grass clipping through floorboards and walls that you can fall through to put together all of this? It's not happening, and if it was going to happen, it will not happen for a very, very long time. 

 

Even when it does happen, two simple reactions.

 

1) System will be too harsh and no one will go to the server except for people like the kid that told me if I keep following him he's going to turn my computer off because he's a hacker (he then cried as I knocked him out with one punch)

2) System will be too shit and people will game it and run around with hero bands and be bandits.

 

Also, let's not pretend here, a fucking arm band? Are you joking? I am not going to fucking spend my time looking at someone arm before I take them out.

----edit----

and yeah you don't have to wear it, what does wearing it in the first place do? Save you if you manage to find one person with a hero band? Who is going to go out of their way to strap something to their arm so they can let you know to shoot them? Are you fucking kidding me?

----edit----

ONTOP of all of that, if you say 'simple just dont wear it if you dont want to' then you basically just waited Dean Hall and everyone else on the dev teams time and money because you're suggesting a system that would probably either be very basic or complex, either way, taking up resources and further dragging the launch date behind because of your fucking arm bands. 

 

Hope all of this helps.

 

Oh and by the way, bare min, if you want someone to make this a mod and use their own time and resources, by all means, find the person who will make it and let's see how it works out. I'd love to see the amount of people that flock to your server. Literally going to be nothing but new players who are going to be considered civs or heros and never attack anyone, just loot and scoot. There will be the occasional bandit that lurks in and kills a few people and leaves the server before anyone can do something about it. Is this mod going to tie into the idiot that wants a megaphone so he can scream from Kamy to Electro that there are bandits? What is that? 10-20 minute run to see if someone is still online? Kappa.

Edited January 24, 2014 by PityLovesYou

[Yummi 3]

It sounds like OP needs to learn how to interact with players. Pro tip, sneak up on them and have your gun pointing at them before you talk.

[Blaaaaaaag 75]

An effective humanity system only counts player kills for humanity points, and MUST have a visual indicator of some type to separate hero / civ / bandit.

 

To repeat, THAT WON'T WORK, AT ALL.

 

Such a system will not function as you intend it to, it will be abused, and you'll come back here crying. Creative bandits will group together, let one of them kill all the others in the group enough times for him to get a hero label, and then have no trouble luring bambis to their slaughter. "Hey, there new spawn, as you can see, I'm a hero, my golden locks glistening in the sunlight, and look how big my teeth are! Hey, I just saw a Mosin in that barn up the hill, let's go get it! Then we'll meet my friends!"

[frosti 2165]

To repeat, THAT WON'T WORK, AT ALL.

 

Such a system will not function as you intend it to, it will be abused, and you'll come back here crying. Creative bandits will group together, let one of them kill all the others in the group enough times for him to get a hero label, and then have no trouble luring bambis to their slaughter. "Hey, there new spawn, as you can see, I'm a hero, my golden locks glistening in the sunlight, and look how big my teeth are! Hey, I just saw a Mosin in that barn up the hill, let's go get it! Then we'll meet my friends!"

 

Better then deathmatch we have now.

[komadose 190]

Better then deathmatch we have now.

how would it be better? i would just shoot hero armband wearers on sight, cos he's propably just a bandit in disguise.

 

total fail system.

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

Better then deathmatch we have now.

 

Yep, I definitely agree.

 

More people would interact, instead of just blindly shooting / axing everything that moves.

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

how would it be better? i would just shoot hero armband wearers on sight, cos he's propably just a bandit in disguise.

 

total fail system.

 

If you were farming humanity for hero status, you'd get +250 humanity for every bandit kill.  For every hero you killed, you'd go -1000.  If you killed 2 heros in a row, it would be -2000.  So you might be able to do that for a very short time, but you'd rapidly lose your hero status.

 

Lets say you found, and killed your bandit friends 100 times (which would take a long, long, long time).  That would net you 25,000 positive humanity.  Then you decided to go on a hero killing spree.  The first hero kill would cost you -1000 humanity.  The second and subsequent hero kills would cost you -2000 humanity (if it was 2 hero kills in a row).

 

The most heros you could kill before returning to bandit status is 25.  If you were killing heros back to back, you could only kill 13 before you were a bandit again.

 

100 bandit friend kills, to 13-25 hero kills...........not very much fun farming that, just to trick heros.  Takes too much time.

 

Not a perfect system, but 100% better than the Standalone "everyone is a bandit" mode is now.

[komadose 190]

If you were farming humanity for hero status, you'd get +250 humanity for every bandit kill.  For every hero you killed, you'd go -1000.  If you killed 2 heros in a row, it would be -2000.  So you might be able to do that for a very short time, but you'd rapidly lose your hero status.

 

Lets say you found, and killed your bandit friends 100 times (which would take a long, long, long time).  That would net you 25,000 positive humanity.  Then you decided to go on a hero killing spree.  The first hero kill would cost you -1000 humanity.  The second and subsequent hero kills would cost you -2000 humanity (if it was 2 hero kills in a row).

 

The most heros you could kill before returning to bandit status is 25.  If you were killing heros back to back, you could only kill 13 before you were a bandit again.

 

100 bandit friend kills, to 13-25 hero kills...........not very much fun farming that, just to trick heros.  Takes too much time.

 

Not a perfect system, but 100% better than the Standalone "everyone is a bandit" mode is now.

then it should basicly be forced that you could tell a difference between bandits and heroes. otherwise you could not know wether you are shooting a hero or a bandit.

 

if a hero is pointing you with a gun, you should be able to legitly defend yourself without getting minus humanity. how would it be possible for the game to know wether the kill was good or bad?

Edited January 24, 2014 by komadose

[Bubbajones 238]

This isn't a wild west 1950's TV show where the good guys wear white hats and the bandits wear black hats...

 

part of the game is not knowing who you're dealing with and interacting with them to find out.

 

/sarcasm on

 

Maybe rocket could make a third rule-set of the game called "carebear" where bad guys have to twirl their mustaches and and say, "muahahaha!" every 2 minutes.

 

 

/sarcasm off

[synystr 118]

They already do it unintentionally. If you see someone running around in camo with a gas mask and a combat helmet? They are a bandit.

[frosti 2165]

They already do it unintentionally. If you see someone running around in camo with a gas mask and a combat helmet? They are a bandit.

 

And if you see someone running on coast in jeans and t-shirt they are bandit that got killed.

[zhrike 264]

<Sarcasm>

Foolproof bandit identification system in two steps.

Step one: IF: they have arms, legs, a torso, a head, and aren't either dead or a zombie. THEN: Bandit.
Step two: GOTO Step one.

</Sarcasm>

Plenty of people have argued intelligently and considerately already. 

 

The only thing I wonder is: what is stopping you from playing the game you want to play?

If you want to be a hero, be a hero. You're going to get murdered. Regardless of any bandit/hero system, it's going to happen. Just play the game you want to play.
 

[Blaaaaaaag 75]

Well, with the example I gave, the 'hero' bandit wouldn't ever lose his 'hero' status, he's not the one doing the killing, he'd be a faceman of sorts for the rest of his group. The point is, that even if you see someone with a hero skin, you can never know for sure. But whatever, let's throw that example out. Would you care to pick apart the other dozen or so examples of how this could be abused that someone else posted a couple pages back?

 

Or how about how anyone wearing a 'hero' badge is going to be a massive target for the "90%" of people on the server who are only interested in ruining his day? I'm normally friendly, but I dislike your idea so much that if it were ever implemented, I'd go hero hunting, all day every day. Heros are notoriously shit at defending themselves, it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel.

[waffen-79 32]

no, not even on the private servers or modified branch of the main game, for the simple reason that you guys are ok with the method of forcing "skins"  according to "humanity" NOPE no more adjustments to the core that limit customization, in fact, we need more player, model customizations

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

Well, with the example I gave, the 'hero' bandit wouldn't ever lose his 'hero' status, he's not the one doing the killing, he'd be a faceman of sorts for the rest of his group. The point is, that even if you see someone with a hero skin, you can never know for sure. But whatever, let's throw that example out. Would you care to pick apart the other dozen or so examples of how this could be abused that someone else posted a couple pages back?

 

Or how about how anyone wearing a 'hero' badge is going to be a massive target for the "90%" of people on the server who are only interested in ruining his day? I'm normally friendly, but I dislike your idea so much that if it were ever implemented, I'd go hero hunting, all day every day. Heros are notoriously shit at defending themselves, it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

If you saw his friends, you'd see the bandit status on them.  If you blindly follow a hero around, yes you might get ambushed.  But that would get very boring for whoever had to be the "front man".  He'd never be able to shoot the heros he was tricking.  I personally wouldn't follow another hero around, I have my own group of heros to run with.

 

I'm fine with getting hunted.  Same thing would go for bandits.  I'd at least know to differentiate between the two.  You act like we're scared of your dumb asses.  We're not.  We'd just like to NOT have to shoot some people who are friendly to others.  So we don't have to waste ammo on friendly players, and we can use it all on the KOSers.

 

Right now everyone moving is a bandit.  

Fresh spawn = bandit

Clown mask = bandit

Military clothes = bandit

AFK hiding in a house = bandit

 

The system might get a little exploited, but is better than 90% of the server KOSing on sight.

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

no, not even on the private servers or modified branch of the main game, for the simple reason that you guys are ok with the method of forcing "skins"  according to "humanity" NOPE no more adjustments to the core that limit customization, in fact, we need more player, model customizations

 

So you get to say how I run my server that I pay for.

 

Got it, glad you're not in charge of development.

[komadose 190]

If you saw his friends, you'd see the bandit status on them.  If you blindly follow a hero around, yes you might get ambushed.  But that would get very boring for whoever had to be the "front man".  He'd never be able to shoot the heros he was tricking.  I personally wouldn't follow another hero around, I have my own group of heros to run with.

 

I'm fine with getting hunted.  Same thing would go for bandits.  I'd at least know to differentiate between the two.  You act like we're scared of your dumb asses.  We're not.  We'd just like to NOT have to shoot some people who are friendly to others.  So we don't have to waste ammo on friendly players, and we can use it all on the KOSers.

 

Right now everyone moving is a bandit.  

Fresh spawn = bandit

Clown mask = bandit

Military clothes = bandit

AFK hiding in a house = bandit

 

The system might get a little exploited, but is better than 90% of the server KOSing on sight.

i would get hero status so i could troll people. they think they don't need to be afraid of me and then BAM!

[dsi24 227]

I can only assume that people who actually want this bullshit have not played the mod version of the game, it was an utterly broken system that only served to encourage KoS.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Dsi1

[Bubbajones 238]

I can only assume that people who actually want this bullshit have not played the mod version of the game, it was an utterly broken system that only served to encourage KoS.

 

yeah. i remember people grinding on zombies and bloodbaging friends to get their hero points up enough to go kill people for a while. 

 

they would use hero skin to trick people.

 

totally useless mechanic...

[frosti 2165]

I can only assume that people who actually want this bullshit have not played the mod version of the game, it was an utterly broken system that only served to encourage KoS.

 

 

yeah. i remember people grinding on zombies and bloodbaging friends to get their hero points up enough to go kill people for a while. 

 

they would use hero skin to trick people.

 

totally useless mechanic...

 

Humanity system in mod was broken and exploitable and it was mentioned and covered in this thread.

[dsi24 227]

Humanity system in mod was broken and exploitable and it was mentioned and covered in this thread.

Any system that assigns you cosmetics based on your action will be exploited by players just to get those cosmetics. You cannot assign something meaningful through an algorithm like that, besides the fact that a player elected (or was forced) to go through the steps in the algorithm, perhaps for the prize at the end that you mistakenly think is a dissuasion tool.

 

Now this on the other hand allows players to assign their own standings similar to Eve. It lets humans be humans.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Dsi1