Is a Hive necessary ?

[symptom 185]

I think it´s ok having a hive, because some like it.

 

I don´t like the idea for myself.

-my equip feels more worth playing on one server

-the history of players on the server is "more real"

-no server hopping

-no desinc players

-no high ping players

-you know your neighbors...

-no night avoid

-no day avoid

 

playing on a hive

-random history/no history (you can´t hold a hill or city)

-my faforite server is empty

-server hopper

-guys with ping over 80

-guys with desinc 10000000

-night avoider

-day avoider

 

It´s ok how it is. Each his own.

 

Not trying to put you on the spot, but I have a few problems with your logic....

 

I don´t like the idea for myself.

-my equip feels more worth playing on one server - Equipment comes and goes. Not like you're going to keep it for months at a time.

-the history of players on the server is "more real" - People will have home servers reguardless of whether it's hive or private. That's why people bookmark servers in the "favorites" tab.

-no server hopping - Who cares right now? It's in alpha. The Dev team might install a log out timer to help prevent this. (and yes, to make it work against Alt+F4)

-no desinc players - WHAT?!?!?!? This one made me laugh. Private hives have Desync.

-no high ping players - Again, I laughed at this. High ping has nothing to do with a server being Hive or Private Hive.

-you know your neighbors..- I know people who play on the few servers I play on. I consider them kinda like my neighbor. Not sure I get what you're saying.

-no night avoid - So you want controlled night and day?? Server hop helps you there bud. Play where the time of day you want is going on.

-no day avoid - See above comment

 

Then you said:

 

playing on a hive

-random history/no history (you can´t hold a hill or city) - You need to think about different positions and stop playing the popluar ones.

-my faforite server is empty - Good, go loot what you can, while you can without being killed.

-server hopper - So? Why is this bad?

-guys with ping over 80 - Has nothing to do with it.

-guys with desinc 10000000 - Has nothing to do with it.

-night avoider - So you want controlled night and day?? Server hop helps you there bud. Play where the time of day you want is going on.

-day avoider - See above comment.

 

No offense, but I don't think you thought this through.

Edited January 14, 2014 by symptom

[djporternz 644]

I was asking myself : "Why is there a Hive ?" ; "What is the Hive for ?" ; "Do we need a Hive to play DayZ ?"

You need persistence of character within the game. Persistence of inventory and status. This is a given. Without it there is no reason to do anything in game.

 

But, IMHO it has more to do with control. We have to connect to their Hive/DB, so we have to follow their rules. Now, when they roll out Private Hive/DB it may be the case that we will have to host that ourselves as well, and I hope we do, but if we still have to rely on them to host the Hive/DB then they still have control.

 

Don't take that to mean that that control is inherently bad, but it is there.

 

With a central hive you can play with your character on every connected server. You have one character, one live, sort of one world and therefore permadeath. That was a signature feature in the beginning of DayZ.

 

It adds the feature of beeing able to transfer your character to many servers.

The associated problems are well known and will be addressed later on hopefully.

Chances are, though, they won't be addressed. The major problems with the hive system are those features that you mention. As long as you are able to spawn at the identical location on whichever server you join and are able to transfer items across servers there will always be an exploit inherently built-in to the system.

 

Private Hives/Private DB and the feature/problem goes away.

[apollovulcan 93]

I really do hope that the development team isn't completely against private hives.  Sure, on the mod, with deathmessages, if you've been playing at a server for a while and have seen the same names on the players list, you can assume those who haven't been killed at least in your play time, are somewhat geared up and somewhere out in the wild.  However, even on a private hive with people logging in while you're playing, they can't go to a different server, move behind you or around you, and then log back in to kill you.  That's ridiculous.

 

Private hives are essential to DayZ IMO, I don't necessarily think that server admins should be able to mod whatever and everything they want about the game, but I do think private hives are tenfold better than a completely public hive.

[Etherious 907]

Rocket, himself has said that there will be private hives later......which is ok (to an extent) but mods...HELL NO.

Edited January 15, 2014 by DJ SGTHornet

[djporternz 644]

Rocket, himself has said that there will be private hives later......which is ok (to an extent) but mods...HELL NO.

Rocket has also said that there will be modding later... which is also ok.

[Atomizer 53]

In my opinion, private hives should only exist for mods, and I am talking about proper mods(not 1000+ vehicles), though, I guess that is still a mod.

 

Server hopping, ghosting and combat logging will all be solved, on the public hive, or at least reduced to the point that it is not an issue.

Private hives are not a solution for this, and yes, as already stated, the devs have already confirmed private hives will happen, and by the sounds of it, quite soon, as well as a separate official "hardcore" public hive, which will be first person only and other things to make DayZ the game it should be.

I am not happy with the "separation"(both private hives and a hardcore/normal hive), but eh, id rather it be separated since third person wont be going away.

As for private hives, people can go off in their own little private "sub-communities" separate from the public hives, enjoy your small communities and the problems that come with it, in an attempt to strap a band aid on a problem that can and will be fixed on the public hive.

[djporternz 644]

Server hopping, ghosting and combat logging will all be solved, on the public hive, or at least reduced to the point that it is not an issue.

I admire your optimism, but it cannot be solved as you think in the Public Hive, and any attempt to do so will perforce have to be in a way that will hinder legitimate players. It will always be an issue.

 

Private hives are not a 'band-aid' as you also contend, and communities are only small in comparison. But to be honest, it's all a moot point. Our small 120+ player community will move to our own servers when we are able. Same as we do for the other ArmA games and the DayZmod presently. Whether you're personally happy with the seperation or not is not a factor in our deliberations.

[yessaul robinovich 42]

what killed the mod was hacking, not private hives

private hives or even bohemia-hosted database of characters linked to individual server are the only way to really balance dayz economy.

otherwise you will forever be unable to have/hold/secure bases/houses/some sense of 'property' in the world, forever be able to gear up on

low-pop servers and then jump onto high population to play deathmatch, etc. 

 

if you think that private hives 'killed the mod', you are full-on retarded.

[symptom 185]

No I think that all of my arguments have been valid and poignant and everything you've said so far was just false information and now you're telling me to 'go play the mod' which is a serious lolzer as Rocket already confirmed private hive support will be added in teh future.I think you're the kind of player who likes the public hive cause you like ghosting and server hopping. You see, it's easy to create strawmen and accuse others of being lamers.

Please tell what I said was false. You seem to think you're the expert, so please inform all of us.

BTW, I don't server hop. I have a home server and play 3 or 4 other when it is down. Don't assume you know my play style, when you've never played with me. You seem to only see the negative in things. Try and for once to look at the positives.

[yessaul robinovich 42]

BTW, I don't server hop. I have a home server and play 3 or 4 other when it is down. Don't assume you know my play style, when you've never played with me. 

 

y'all don't know me! y'all don't know me! what is this, ricky lake?

 

point being, it doesn't matter whether you 'server hop' or not - if its an open server with migration, the other people may or, perhaps most likely, absolutely will.

and this means that your survival on a server where resources are limited is at inherent disadvantage from people who will phase into existence to grab whatever

loot in all the right places (after traveling there on some low-pop server during, say, some ungodly hour in the uk or germany or whatever) leaving you with nothing.

as in, no food. or weapons. or ammo. or fanny. so how you're playing personally doesn't matter whatsoever in favour of a central hive architecture. because as long

as players are able to freely migrate between servers, they will adhere to a model that gives them the most safety while 'gearing up' (by the way, this is the meat

and potatoes of the game.. they're cheating themselves out of..basically what sets dayz apart from anything else) and then join a 40pop server full of clown-mask & TTSKO

long-range scoping guys sitting REALLY STILL in buildings for hours hoping something crosses their path so they can go 'NINININININI FAGGET! GGCLOSE!'

 

now, hey, you're right. i don't know you. i don't know if that is the kind of game you want to play. but if you're arguing for the 'all server migration you want, all the time' approach we have now, you're arguing in favour of all of that.

 

what you appear to be incapable of understanding is that this game is trying really hard to be an actual MMO. and this means shit that might be real difficult to get through

to ya, like economy. yanno? the amount of stuff you stuff into the game world relative to the amount of people likely to be inhabiting a server. how do you balance availability

of resources vs the number of survivors over a period of time. stuff that is important for all sorts of things like creating more complex and varied loot tables, generally increasing 

the depth of the game and actually taking it where its striving to go. (hint: not deathmatch on a really big map after you've spent hours restarting your own 'DONT JOIN ERRRYBODY GETS KICKED' server)... getting past the hurtles this game has on its way to actually being an mmo is insurmountable via open migration.

 

no one has said that 'private hives' need to store their character information on the servers themselves. if your concern is administrators and their abuse of power, or diluting the essence of what dayz is about via modifications to the basic premise of the game, i agree with you - they can very well be stored with bohemia proper. maybe there are even some migration options they can eventually offer. but that needs to be an exception to the rule, not the default way to play done every single time you log in. that can't be reconciled with the ideas dean is trying to tackle. and i'm sure he recognises that well enough.

 

its about time you try to.

Edited January 15, 2014 by yessaul robinovich

[broguenz 333]

Official/ vanilla private hives alongside the public hive would be all good.

[on3c3nt 185]

Another hysterical reactionary post. I don't know why I even bother.

Permadeath as in every other single roguelike game out there does not mean 'you are only allowed to have one character ever', the only scenario in which what you described might actually happen is if you've bothered to login to 50 different servers and gear up on each of those servers, otherwise it's not likely that you'll have '50 different characters all geared up scattered across the world so that permadeath lose all relevance', just nonsense I can't believe you thought it's an actual issue worth posting about. Permadeath is just as relevant given that once a character dies you (potentially) lose all of the gear/progress you've had on this character.

Private hives are generally a good thing, if you don't want to play on a server with 100 helicopter and 1000+ vehicles just don't. Simple as that.

 

For some people permadeath is relevant, why does everybody think his/her opinion is the only one? Even in SA no in the last 4 weeks i had to join a HUNDRED servers, because most of the servers i had played before were simply full. I don't want to start at least one new character each day and i'm sure you wouldn't either. If the population of dayz keeps up like this, private servers will be almost full the whole time and you have to either wait for a player to leave or visit another server to start up all from the beginning.

 

Plus it's is a whole different feeling if you know you could loose everything at once instead of just logging to another public server where you have your camp with 45 helicopters, a tank, and a quadrillion weapons.

 

If they allow modding like it was in the mod, there will soon be no other alternative than playing on a 100+ helicopter etc server, because if you have played the mod for a long time you know that they will be everywhere. There will be a few "vanilla" servers but they won't give shelter for everyone who doesn't want that crap

Edited January 15, 2014 by generelleasy

[ImageCtrl 719]

Not trying to put you on the spot, but I have a few problems with your logic....

I'm not surprised, it's because we have different gameplay experience.

 

I don´t like the idea for myself.

-my equip feels more worth playing on one server - Equipment comes and goes. Not like you're going to keep it for months at a time.

Many of my characters in the mod lived for months.

-the history of players on the server is "more real" - People will have home servers reguardless of whether it's hive or private. That's why people bookmark servers in the "favorites" tab.

-you know your neighbors..- I know people who play on the few servers I play on. I consider them kinda like my neighbor. Not sure I get what you're saying.

Both of these points mean the same. If you play on a private server a long time, you known the player. It's hard to explain someone who has never played on private servers. You learn more and more about the players. (player combination x always makes a chopper run, player y has his base still in that area, player z is almost always in cherno etc, a new player on the server will travel Balota. On a hive there is no history, the history is meaningless.

-no server hopping - Who cares right now? It's in alpha. The Dev team might install a log out timer to help prevent this. (and yes, to make it work against Alt+F4)

server hoppers mean ... unnamed player without server history. Items without server history. Player with items they had never achieved on this private server.

-no desinc players - WHAT?!?!?!? This one made me laugh. Private hives have Desync.

-no high ping players - Again, I laughed at this. High ping has nothing to do with a server being Hive or Private Hive.

high ping = desinc    In Germany and Netherlands and most of the GB servers you get kicked from the server. (reason high ping)

In the hive I can join all US server with a 700 Ping. The game get laggy for all players.

-no night avoid - So you want controlled night and day?? Server hop helps you there bud. Play where the time of day you want is going on.

-no day avoid

I don´t want control night and day. I want have the benefits of them. Nighttime only 10 players on? Because some avoid the night? I get the benefit that only 10 players are online. It has also something to do with serverhistory.

I have no nightvision and avoid the night? Other players have the benefit.

It´s hard to explain to someone who never played on a private server.

It´s like comparing the first round on a CS server (hive/random/no history) with the thirty round on a CS server (private/expecting/history).

You get a feeling for the players.

Edited January 16, 2014 by NoCheats