Medical System poll

[Westoluth 4]

This is just a quick poll to check what people's thoughts are on the current medical system and Saline. I didn't see much to do with the medical system in the Confirmed Upcoming futures in DayZ, So this was a way tos see what the community thought. Personally I would like to see a hardcore medical system and I think saline should be temporary.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Westoluth

[deewd22 32]

Saline bags should only heal the half. 2500 blood instead of 5000.

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

Some medical ideas - treating others (http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/161874-medical-system-for-dayz-part-2-emergency-care-for-other-players/) and treating your own wounds (http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/161763-medical-system-for-dayz-part-1---self-treatment-of-wounds/).

Edited January 13, 2014 by Roshi

[libertine 351]

Have a hard enough time finding saline as it is, not to mention someone "safe" to give it to me.

 

You can get back to full health in just about 10 minutes if you're "healthy". That i would consider nerfing a little.

[Lorax 99]

I'm not in the medical field, but shouldn't saline only give you hydration? Saline isn't blood, therefore it can't give you blood. It can make you completely hydrated so you can heal on your own...therefore saline shouldn't give you any blood. The only thing that can give you blood is....wait for it....blood. Novel concept, huh. I'm tired and going to sleep, I'm a little cranky.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Lorax

[samzala 74]

The full benefit from intravenous treatment needs to be from a combination; saline bags for hydration and salt, blood bags for replacing any lost blood immediately. There should be no blood regained from saline bags at all.

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

I dont know how much blood can be replaced by saline irl before it becomes dangerous, but whatever value it is, the game should be the same. so lets say for example you can only have one fifth of your total blood replaced by saline before its dangerous, then a saline bag in game should only give 1000 blood, and if you take 2 you get side effects. Take any more and you should get increased side effects and an chance to die.  saline bags should make your health tick away, curable by getting blood transfusions. 5 blood bags should be insta death. Buff blood bags to 2000/2500 blood and maybe take out a bandage out of the med box, and replace it with a blood testing kit. Alternatively, create a med bag with different stuff inside, including a blood test kit.

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

I'm not in the medical field, but shouldn't saline only give you hydration? Saline isn't blood, therefore it can't give you blood. It can make you completely hydrated so you can heal on your own...therefore saline shouldn't give you any blood. The only thing that can give you blood is....wait for it....blood. Novel concept, huh. I'm tired and going to sleep, I'm a little cranky.

Sorry for double post, using a rather clumzy mobile device. 

It also raises blood pressure.

 

[AP_Norris 1018]

I wouldn't mind normal old bloodbags being better.

Honestly if a full bloodbag replaces less blood than some saline something is wrong.

Edited January 13, 2014 by AP_Norris

[djporternz 644]

I'm not in the medical field, but shouldn't saline only give you hydration? Saline isn't blood, therefore it can't give you blood. It can make you completely hydrated so you can heal on your own...therefore saline shouldn't give you any blood. The only thing that can give you blood is....wait for it....blood. Novel concept, huh. I'm tired and going to sleep, I'm a little cranky.

You want to hydrate someone you have them drink something, usually water with electrolytes added, in measured quantities so as not to overload their system.

 

Saline is purely about blood pressure and viscosity. You give it to dehydrated patients to fend off the secondary effects of the dehydration, but it isn't going to effect anything other than thier blood. It's a large hammer, but sometimes that's what is needed. Once the patient is out of immediate danger you can worry about anything else.

 

The fact is, you can dilute blood down a fair way and not lose any of it's functionality.

[Greaves 131]

I think a permanent blood type for every player would be good. This would make blood bags more relevant, which will be needed if (i hope when) Saline will be nerfed. Sure, you can be stuck with a not so usefull one, but thats what happens in real life. I say Saline bags should give you the ''Healthy'' state for about 30 minutes, so you can regen blood faster.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Greaves

[n.mettala@gmail.com 5]

Somekind treatment menu would be great... Where you can remove bullets, stitch your wounds, etc.

 

MGS: Snake Eater has nice system, other games with that kind system dosen't come to mind right now.

Edited January 13, 2014 by ryuuou

[Westoluth 4]

You want to hydrate someone you have them drink something, usually water with electrolytes added, in measured quantities so as not to overload their system.

 

Saline is purely about blood pressure and viscosity. You give it to dehydrated patients to fend off the secondary effects of the dehydration, but it isn't going to effect anything other than thier blood. It's a large hammer, but sometimes that's what is needed. Once the patient is out of immediate danger you can worry about anything else.

 

The fact is, you can dilute blood down a fair way and not lose any of it's functionality.

 

Pretty much what I was thinking, It is a temporary way of keeping a patient alive until you have more time to use a more permanent procedure.

[Westoluth 4]

Some medical ideas - treating others (http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/161874-medical-system-for-dayz-part-2-emergency-care-for-other-players/) and treating your own wounds (http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/161763-medical-system-for-dayz-part-1---self-treatment-of-wounds/).

 

Great Ideas, I love them! I personally hope that the medical system becomes so in depth that having a full time medic is warrented.  ^_^  

[Karmaterror 982]

Keep blood bags at 1000, nerf saline to 500 :D

 

Dayz.....harsh environment lol

 

 

Have a hard enough time finding saline as it is, not to mention someone "safe" to give it to me.

 

You can get back to full health in just about 10 minutes if you're "healthy". That i would consider nerfing a little.

 

Couldn't agree more, that healing process should take a hell of a lot longer.

 

But now I'm curious, with the health vs blood thing. Could I, hypothetically, be on full "health" with no saturation. But be 1 hit from death due to low "blood". 

[Bohannan (DayZ) 235]

Wow this thread is full google MD's.  Let me explain in reality what we use these items for since i use them on patients daily.

 

Normal saline is an isotonic fluid that is used for 1. Fluid volume replacement from fluid loss 2. a means to infuse other medications such as IV drugs 3.  it is the only fluid used in conjunction when hanging blood on a patient.  There are many many other types of fluid, normal saline is the most common and will not cause fluid shifts between the intravasculature and intracellular areas.  It can somewhat correct mild hypotension but anything else beyond fluid volume depletion other therapies are needed.  For example I can give saline to a person that is post operative with 2L of lost blood.  Chances are we are going to get a Hemoglobin and Hematocrit level to determine how many points we dropped.  If the person drops a significant amount from baseline, we will infuse packed red blood cells, not whole blood.  If component therapy is available it is preferred.  The only place I know that dumps whole blood in readily is the military.  The saline will help the situation but not fix it. 

 

Saline does not restore blood, blood restores blood.  Red blood cells are made in the long bones of your body. 

 

I could go on for DAYZ about this subject and anyone wanting to know more can just ask.  I tried to make it as lehmans terms as possible.

 

Source: Registered Nurse with 6+ years in acute care.

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

<snip> normal saline is the most common and will not cause fluid shifts between the intravasculature and intracellular areas <snip> 

I agree with what you wrote - I just think this bit needs a little clarification in the context of saline as volume replacement.

 

Normal saline is a isotonic crystalloid fluid (as opposed to colloid) so there is nothing to hold it in the intravascular compartment (due to lack of large molecules generating oncotic pressure) so it will spread out between the circulation and tissues (i.e. throughout the extracellular space), although during rehydration it won't cause rapid cellular fluid shifts as you say (unless renal function is poor e.g. severe dehydration with acute tubular necrosis).

 

The reason I point this out is that saline doesn't tend to stick in the circulation but can be used for rapid replacement (best for vomiting; dextrosaline tends to be better for other forms of fluid loss e.g. severe diarrhoea), although maintenance should be with fluids such as Plasmalyte) that lead to less tissue oedema.

 

As you say, with severe blood loss suspended RBCs are the best option (if red cell count getting below 70 or so); however, in the context  of the situations you'd find in DayZ, blood products would be hard to come by (they need to be refrigerated) so they aren't really an option. Inotropes/vasopressors can come into play to manage severe hypotension (usually in an intensive care environment), but if you have no other option (e.g. no access to properly reconstituted blood products) don't you just 'whack in whatever fluid you can get your hands on' to restore circulating volume and deal with the consequences later? In severe hypotension, giving the heart something to pump against is the first priority as I understand it (whether through vasoconstriction or restoring volume).

 

Anyways, this topic of saline vs blood, and how plausible the current system is, has come up a few times.

 

I appreciate that I'm preaching to the choir a bit (ok a lot) here. It is nice to have input from a qualified and experienced health professional though. You should put in your two cents more often.

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

PS I'd appreciate it if you vetted my ideas on the medical system a few posts above...

PPS I prefer Google Docs to Google MDs.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Roshi