Why Mouse Acceleration in First Person desperately needs Fixing #2 *Long Post*

[mercules 1290]

It wouldn't work for me, directing you back to my previous post. Am I still just "doing it wrong"?

 

How do you know? 

We have two possibilities. I can physically or mentally accomplish something you are not capable of doing or you are capable of doing it.

 

If it is the former then maybe games with this are not games you want to play. I don't play dance-dance-revolution for the same reason. I don't play slot machines because I can't stand to not have some influence over what is happening and they are ALL random chance there is no strategy so they drive me insane. I take a book when I go to the casino with the in-laws and check in on them or go hit the poker table for a bit. 

 

If it is the later then yes, you are doing it wrong. 

 

Edited January 22, 2014 by Mercules

[minime1000 78]

It is exactly the same principle....you hit a certain speed....you hit a restriction. Weather that restriction slows or caps you is irrelivent....its the same principal. All it will do is remove the punishment for choppy movements.

Glad to see you do not actually know what they mean. Right now the mouse will restrict your movement when you accelerate too fast. 1:1 input will restrict you when you reach a certain speed. The devs can keep 1:1 raw but limit your turn speed like some FPSs do. Keep on saying they are the same.

 

Panic dosent work like that? really.....so a paniced guy swinging his gun round like a maniac will be more effective that someone moving in a controlled manor who can pretty much fire as soon as they see you due to being in control of there weapon.

 

 

Thanks for supporting me because that is exactly right. A panicked guy will move his gun around like a maniac and someone who is calm will move it in a controlled manor. So 1:1 will be more realistic as someone who panics will swing it around like a maniac with no stopping from neg. acceleration and someone who is calm will move it smoothly with no help needed from neg. acceleration.

[27 others 102]

360 in 2.75 secs is wrooooong.....its way faster than that when you know how to use it.....il look for recording software now and try to make a vid.

 

Do that. Record the time you require for a turn. I actually wrote 2.2-2.6 seconds, tho.

 

You can also hold alt when in iron sights and negate mouse accel when you have lined your body up with the target.....lining up your body isnt even that hard (as i will show in a vid).

 

 

 

Didn`t quite understand all of that, but go ahead. Im curious to see the results.

 

The punishment isnt out of place, it screws up your attempt to aim if you do it in an unreasonably fast manor

 

 

Sounds good. But i actually get punished for it moving my mouse reasonably normally.

 

When i move it very smoothly it takes double the time it would in reality.

[Landers 2]

So, you buy a device that compensates for Dayz` shitty mouse movement and then come on here to tell me there is nothing wrong with it? LOL.

I might actually give this a shot, tho, it looks promising. But it shouldnt even be necessary.

 

EDIT: just took a look around on amazon..... well.... how much did you pay for your TrackIR?

 

 +1 on the TrackIR. I've been using it for 2 or 3 years.

 

No i had it turned off. You can see my mouse options menu on multiple tests in the Youtube Video. I just tried to raise the aiming deadzone-bar... it would always set itself back to 0% after quitting the menu.

[27 others 102]

 

Um... Common Ego shooters lock the head movement to the arm movement. DayZ doesn't. Which is unrealistic again?

 

 

You misunderstood. I was talking about the head and arm movement -----> speed  <--- here.

 

 

 

Because it seems to work? I mean if you can find some other way the movement feels natural in the game as is feel free to do so, but if Player X has a problem with a game system that doesn't seem to affect Player Y is it more likely that the game system is the issue or Player X HAS an issue?

 

You probably experience the issue, but you accepted it. I do have an issue with injustified prohibition of the speed and body control i could achieve in real life.

 

 

1. I can whip my head around like crazy in DayZ just like in real life. My body however moves slow, just like in real life. 

2. I don't want a video. What I was trying to explain is I can't tell others why it works for me and not for them because I have no clue how they move, only how I move. I can't explain how to do it right because I have no experience with it going wrong or can't compare our two "styles" and then say, "Oh well it looks like this is happening." He says he is moving smoothly but then again my color blind father-in-law thinks he is wearing a red and yellow shirt not green and yellow. His perception of smooth movment may not be the same so our inability to figure out what is going on is limited by what we can see and experience. 

3. You are attempting to compare an actual bug and problem to a FEATURE of the game. Falling off ladders was not purposefully added to the game. While the design for movement might not have been ideal, it was put in for a reason. You don't agree with that reason but that doesn't mean it was a bug. 

 

1. In real life you can move your head and your arms at different speeds simultaneously. Almost every shooter fails to grasp that very concept, and in DayZ you experience way more problems than you would in real life.

 

2. im not a retard. moving the mouse smoothly is not rocket science, like what you want it to be. the maximum i achieved was 2.2s/360° in Dayz. I say again, please record ingame footage of yourself doing a 360° turn in a more realistic time.

 

3. eh if youre talking to him i dont know, but i told you that i SUPPORT the REASON. the implementation is just bad.

Edited January 22, 2014 by 27 others

[Karmaterror 982]

20 mins till vid, max sensativity....360 in less that a second i think (or just over) and an example of what happens if you try to "twitch". Had to use arma2 though because dayz servers are down :(

[27 others 102]

Eh. im talking about the Dayz Standalone here. Since they rebuilt their game, they probably changed the mouse movement aswell.

If they didnt, you could have a fair point.

 

gonna head to bed now

[27 others 102]

wait a second....  "Max sensitivity"?? Maximum ingame mouse sensitivity???

 

max sensativity....360 in less that a second i think (or just over)

 

I covered that in my testing. Skip to 0:38

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWl1fpV8RuM

 

you cant go around in houses with max sensitivity without getting stuck on EVERY doorframe.

Edited January 22, 2014 by 27 others

[dmcheatw 2]

bump because the OP pointed out something fundamental and i learned something today.

 

good news is i think rocket is aware of this dynamic

[Karmaterror 982]

Right here it is, first off sorry for the music....didnt know fraps would record that aswell lol

 

As you can see my first movement is a "twitch" and results in the gun going mad. The next movements are with slow controlled motions over the mouse pad. 

 

 

 

Now my mouse mat is exactly 13.6cm wide (very small i know) and i dont even have to use all of it to achieve this, so small movements for the people with artritus should be ok. 

 

I may have to do another vid but i dont play with max sensitivity, usually about 3/4 but the result is similar. I only moved it to make the vid  because of all the "this only hurts max sensitivity players" posts.

 

Hopefully this clears some things up and shows how responsive the controls can be when you adapt to them. Its not fair to call something broken when it really isnt.

[mercules 1290]

Eh. im talking about the Dayz Standalone here. Since they rebuilt their game, they probably changed the mouse movement aswell.

If they didnt, you could have a fair point.

 

They didn't, it is exactly the same. This could be why I am so "used to it" because I have been using it for over a year now. 

[mercules 1290]

 

 

 

 

You misunderstood. I was talking about the head and arm movement -----> speed  <--- here.

 

 

 

 

 

You probably experience the issue, but you accepted it. I do have an issue with injustified prohibition of the speed and body control i could achieve in real life.

 

 

 

1. In real life you can move your head and your arms at different speeds simultaneously. Almost every shooter fails to grasp that very concept, and in DayZ you experience way more problems than you would in real life.

 

2. im not a retard. moving the mouse smoothly is not rocket science, like what you want it to be. the maximum i achieved was 2.2s/360° in Dayz. I say again, please record ingame footage of yourself doing a 360° turn in a more realistic time.

 

3. eh if youre talking to him i dont know, but i told you that i SUPPORT the REASON. the implementation is just bad.

 

 

1. Almost every shooter... except ARMA, TF, DayZ where you CAN move your head and arms at very different speeds and do so all at the same time. 

2. At work... might have time tonight. Not sure I have my recording software configured for SA yet. I'll see what I can do, no promises though as I have several things I need to accomplish tonight before I can play around on the computer.

3. Maybe the implementation is just bad. You believe so because of your experiences and difficulties while others are not having the same difficulties. It may be, as was suggested, that some of us are just so used to it or it might be we are more "practiced" with it and thus it has become a non-issue for us. 

[minime1000 78]

Right here it is, first off sorry for the music....didnt know fraps would record that aswell lol

 

As you can see my first movement is a "twitch" and results in the gun going mad. The next movements are with slow controlled motions over the mouse pad. 

 

 

 

Now my mouse mat is exactly 13.6cm wide (very small i know) and i dont even have to use all of it to achieve this, so small movements for the people with artritus should be ok. 

 

I may have to do another vid but i dont play with max sensitivity, usually about 3/4 but the result is similar. I only moved it to make the vid  because of all the "this only hurts max sensitivity players" posts.

 

Hopefully this clears some things up and shows how responsive the controls can be when you adapt to them. Its not fair to call something broken when it really isnt.

All it shows is you can do 360 when turning smoothly. Mostly everyone can do that.

What is unrealistic is the fact that you cannot do small quick movements (or twitch as you say) which you can in real life. Just like your video shows, when you accelerate too fast even for a little bit it messes up and that is something completely unreal. That will never happen in real life be it at the range when quickly switching targets or when playing paintball. When I move about I do not turn and look smoothly and methodically because some magical negative acceleration might kick in suddenly.

If anything, simulating panic would mean positive mouse acceleration but that too would be unrealistic. A game has no way of knowing between somebody panicking and when somebody just wants to move and change directions quickly even for a split second.

And again, the devs themselves agree as it was changed for ARMA3.

 

The complaint isn't it nobody can do it and it takes some serious skill. It doesn't  and anyone can do that. The complaint is it is completely unrealistic.

Edited January 22, 2014 by myshl0ng

[27 others 102]

im actually surprised. the speed at which you move in arma 2 seems very smooth and realistic. almost twice as fast as the maximum i achieved in dayz. tomorrow im gonna try to find out why your movement differs from mine, and try to prove that i objectively really move my mouse gently and smoothly. got a rough idea on how to do that without filming my hands. now im really gonna go to sleep tho, 10pm here in germany.

[Karmaterror 982]

All it shows is you can do 360 when turning smoothly. Mostly everyone can do that.

What is unrealistic is the fact that you cannot do small quick movements (or twitch as you say) which you can in real life. Just like your video shows, when you accelerate too fast even for a little bit it messes up and that is something completely unreal. That will never happen in real life be it at the range when quickly switching targets or when playing paintball. When I move about I do not turn and look smoothly and methodically because some magical negative acceleration might kick in suddenly.

If anything, simulating panic would mean positive mouse acceleration but that too would be unrealistic. A game has no way of knowing between somebody panicking and when somebody just wants to move and change directions quickly even for a split second.

And again, the devs themselves agree as it was changed for ARMA3.

 

The complaint isn't it nobody can do it and it takes some serious skill. It doesn't  and anyone can do that. The complaint is it is completely unrealistic.

 

IRL a twitch movement will be inaccurate, thats what it simulates very well. That speed was completely realistic and if you can do it, i fail to see what the problem is....now you are just arguing for twitch shooting :)

 

EDIT when you twitch round at paintballing you are only moving your head to sight targets.....arma simulates this also by having no accel in free look.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Karmaterror

[minime1000 78]

IRL a twitch movement will be inaccurate, thats what it simulates very well. That speed was completely realistic and if you can do it, i fail to see what the problem is....now you are just arguing for twitch shooting :)

I do not know if you have some sort of bone disease but when you switch between targets be it painball or with a real rifle at a range I do not slow down or wobble about like I am made of jelly. Neither does anyone else. Maybe you have bad coordination in real life, I don't know.

EDIT when you twitch round at paintballing you are only moving your head to sight targets.....arma simulates this also by having no accel in free look.

 

Again you are proving my point

 

"Twitching round" at paintballing sighting targets in real life= using both my head and my hands holding the weapon at the same time

Freelook in Arma/DayZ= only the head

 

They are the exact opposites so no, Arma doesn't simulate it.

[Solopopo 330]

It sounds to me like your requesting head bob for guns, in that your character's movement is being influenced by something out of your control. Everyone despises head bob; they will hate gun bob a lot more.  You've managed to express your idea in detail; beans for a well constructed post, but unfortunately it would not pan out. It's an ambitious idea, but most people would just be aggravated by it, and I can see it being really buggy, and more of a pain than it's worth. I am not currently bothered by how quickly players can turn around (I don't think anyone is really). If you have the drop on somebody, they are going to die regardless. It would be cool for the game to be that realistic, but I have my doubts about how something like this would be received. 

Edited January 22, 2014 by Solopopo

[minime1000 78]

Head bob? what? Where did you get that from my post lol

That doesn't even make sense.

Edited January 23, 2014 by myshl0ng

[Flagella 69]

Red orchestra 2 did it right I think

[Solopopo 330]

Head bob? what? Where did you get that from my post lol

That doesn't even make sense.

Head bob tries to simulate what would actually happen to your head as you run/turn. Your screen bobs around while moving to accomplish this.You are talking about applying a similar mechanic, with the same intention, to arms. You are suggesting that arms should not keep up with your eyes, they should lag behind a bit. I don't like the idea of my gun lagging behind my vision all the time. It would just feel like the game was constantly lagging. I prefer my weapon to be aimed straight at the center of my screen at all times. If it was a feature that could be turned off like head bob, and it probably would be, everyone would play with it off. It's a cool idea, but it's a slippery road to go down. It could be amazing, but there's also a good chance it could also be an absolute disaster in terms of how it's received. FPS players are extremely picky about this sort of thing. Though, at the same time, DayZ is more than just an FPS, so it does seem that something like this would be cool, but that's what they thought about head bob, and that's the point I'm trying to make.  

Edited January 23, 2014 by Solopopo

[Flagella 69]

I don't think people seem to realize that a gun doesn't way 50 kgs, it wouldn't slow your arm movement dramatically to the point where your arms are struggling to keep up with your sight.

If you're walking with your gun up its most likely that your eyes will follow where your gun is going. If you were ads this would be even more so. I'm gonna guess that most people here would've been paint balling or at least gone laser skirmishing and even though these weapons are lighter then an average firearm, we may look around (like when we've pressed alt or go into free look) but our arms don't lag behind our sight.

I don't particularly mind mouse acceleration but I think the simple solution to this problem would be to simply have an on and off option. No point making it more complicated then it needs to be.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Flagella

[minime1000 78]

Head bob tries to simulate what would actually happen to your head as you run/turn. Your screen bobs around while moving to accomplish this.You are talking about applying a similar mechanic, with the same intention, to arms. You are suggesting that arms should not keep up with your eyes, they should lag behind a bit. I don't like the idea of my gun lagging behind my vision all the time. It would just feel like the game was constantly lagging

What? where did I say I want hands lagging behind eyes lol. You need to re-read what I have written.

I and others want 1:1 raw input with max speed limit, that is all.

 

I do not even like headbobbing in games. I always turn it to 0.

[tt_reaven 10]

Ok, i haven't read every post of the topic, but as far as iam concerned the mouse acceleration is also caused by the bad performance of DayZ.

When the fps drops while turning, there is some kind of smoothing effect, which causes the mouse acceleration. I have noticed the same problem in other shooter games which had bad performances.

So as soon as the performance isnt stable ingame the mouse acceleration will still be in this game.

Correct me if iam worng.

 

Cheers

Edited January 23, 2014 by tt_reaven

[Captain_Future 0]

Negative mouse acceleration is the most annoying thing about this game. Fortunately, It is said to be a bug and not a "feature" so it will be fixed.

[Captain_Future 0]

Ok, i haven't read every post of the topic, but as far as iam concerned the mouse acceleration is also caused by the bad performance of DayZ.

When the fps drops while turning, there is some kind of smoothing effect, which causes the mouse acceleration. I have noticed the same problem in other shooter games which had bad performances.

So as soon as the performance isnt stable ingame the mouse acceleration will still be in this game.

Correct me if iam worng.

 

Cheers

 

 

You are wrong. This has clearly nothing to do with game performance. It is the same when I have low and high FPS.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Captain_Future