I have an idea for helping with the KOS problem. Rocket should read.

[Chungmugong 5]

In regards to the OP: tl;dr... get better at saying what you wanna say with brevity.

 

This topic is getting a lot of heat on both sides. And you are right about people not wanting to kill others in real life combat situations. That is a documented fact.

 

....but.....

 

If things keep getting added to this game eventually it's gonna get top-heavy and no fun to play. What you are suggesting is a fun killer.

 

Perfection isn't when there is nothing left to add, it is when there is nothing left to strip away.

[Bubbajones 238]

 

The OP is not talking about taking the HARDCORENESS out of the game, but to make it more real, more mature, more like real life.

 

Kids go back to school please, and stop ruining our otherwise fantastic apocalypse simulator!

 

 

you cannot compare a fictitious scenario to real life, period. 

 

history has shown us, repeatedly, when things get really tough; and i mean really really tough - people can do some really shitty things.

 

do not presume to tell me that YOUR morals and values should be the norm. that everyone should behave as you think it should be in a fictitious setting.

 

in the zombie apocalypse, you would be a victim to someones else's reality,

[Madix 2]

Realistic scenario:

1. Set up good loot on an airstrip/exposed area.

2. Wait in a safe location a mile away until a chump tries to loot item.

3. Shoot chump without him ever knowing you were there (with no risk to yourself of course).

4. Let corpse rot there to lure in even more chumps.

5. Repeat and repeat cheap shotting chumps until you kill them all (rage quit) or turn them into even more paranoid assholes that kill on sight.

 

Cost to chumps- Hours of hard work getting what crappy items they have.

Benefits to shooter- A few seconds of satisfaction and possibly some more ammo to kill noobs with.

 

Sociopath= Tormenting people for your own short lived gratification

Edited January 10, 2014 by Madix

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

[Space Milk 195]

you cannot compare a fictitious scenario to real life, period. 

 

history has shown us, repeatedly, when things get really tough; and i mean really really tough - people can do some really shitty things.

 

do not presume to tell me that YOUR morals and values should be the norm. that everyone should behave as you think it should be in a fictitious setting.

 

in the zombie apocalypse, you would be a victim to someones else's reality,

 

Yes, but you would severely be hurt psychologically. PTSD is a example, insanity another.

[Bubbajones 238]

Yes, but you would severely be hurt psychologically. PTSD is a example, insanity another.

 

how do you know?

 

go and visit the blood diamond mines in Africa and count the number of people talking to themselves because they committed brutal crimes

 

go and visit the drug lords in mexico and count the number of people talking to themselves  because they committed brutal crimes

 

go and visits the slums of major U.S. cities and count the number of people talking to themselves because they committed brutal crimes.

 

you can't create hard coded rules to dictate how everyone reacts to something you find wrong.

 

right and wrong is subjective. morality is governed by Law - when law doesn't exist, morality doesn't either.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Bubbajones

[dirtbikr98 5]

This is brilliant. I'm not siding with him simply because I've been KoSed because I haven't been. I just think it would be an incredible addiction to DayZ SA.

[dirtbikr98 5]

Sorry for double posting. I blame my phone!

Edited January 10, 2014 by Dirtbikr98

[Warheart 17]

I KOS BECAUSE I LOVE IT

[martink8190@gmail.com 149]

its funny how people like you try to distort the issue by suggesting it has anything to do with maturity and the age of a player. stop trying to take some kind of moral high ground because your position is weak and your ideas are trash. and honestly are you trolling or just stupid? not a single idea suggested by any of the KoS whiner crowd is even remotely reasonable. every single suggestion wants the devs to completely rebuild game systems or dumb down and restrict existing ones to cater to the way you think the game should be played. the only sensible suggestion has been about improving zombie numbers and ai, which is a general consesus among most of the community that we already know is coming. but there is no "solution" to KoS because it's not a problem, it's a part of the game and how it was designed. it's what you signed up for when you bought this game, and if you think otherwise then this must be your first full loot pvp game, in which case welcome to reality. if you don't like it too bad, it's a playstyle thats inherent to a game of this type. PvP happened in a PvP game. get over it.

 

Oh the irony of you calling someone stupid troll. Apparently your lack of reading comprehension is special, so let me explain in more detail;

 

I expressed, that from my experience it appears that the younger players are likely to seek the killing or otherwise enjoy griefing in game. Not calling anyone cheater but in popular games like COD, which even the elderly play in not small numbers, you would hardly find them cheating. I suggest to look up what taking the high ground means again.

 

As of your reference to my position being weak and my ideas being trash, you probably mean some imaginary internet position but that aside, I never said my ideas were the best from them all but at least I have tried, whereas seeing as you contributed to this forums with staggering 10 ( 9 actually, if I count the one I am now replying to ) posts, would you mind and enlighten me in which way you feel valuable in these forums?

I think I am starting to understand what you meant by teh internet position now. 

 

Back to KoS - I never said I want to eliminate KoS and I never said KoS is the only thing to do ingame either. The issue I have is that it's nearly guaranteed to get killed on sight which is not the way, or better yet, my way, of playing the game. What I am saying is that if zombies were to be removed, what really makes dayz so different from arma or how is it different from any other PVP oriented game?

 

I hear you, yes the zombies are there but they are just minor annoyance. All I want is more in depth from dayz as I can already get my fix in project reality PvP yet actually enjoy some teamwork on top of it.

[nereus77 59]

how do you know?

 

go and visit the blood diamond mines of South Africa and count the number of people talking to themselves because they committed brutal crimes

 

...

South Africa doesn't have blood diamond mines. South Africa has a legitimate mining industry, one of the biggest in the world. (Source: I am South African) You're thinking of West Africa.

 

Regardless, Kill on Sight is an attitude of some DayZ players. Don't like being killed? Then don't be seen....

[Rissou 42]

 

Alright so I am really getting annoyed with KOS. For a game that tries to make an "authentic" zombie survival simulator this game really fails to effectively deal with KOS.

 

First is real life people actually have a hard time killing other people unless they are acting under strong emotional duress or they are naturally wired to not be empathic (psychopathic or aspd individuals). People who are not mentally equipped to be killers suffer from a variety of problems when they take another persons life. The military and the police both spend millions of dollars to provide ongoing training to their members so they can instill a shoot first, think about consequences later reaction. They also spend millions on counselling to try and deal with the after math of their members having to shoot at other people. 

 

Unless DAYZ is trying to be a game about people with antisocial personality disorder surviving the zombie apocalypse there needs to be some mechanic that deals with KOS. I propose that the developers introduce a stress mechanic. If you kill another person you gain stress. Stress depletes with time and can be stopped temporarily by having antidepressants or stimulants.

 

As your stress level goes up it would take longer periods of time to go decrease and it would have a couple of debilitating effects on the character. First stress shouldn't immediately bother your character. It should go up rapidly but the effects should take a few minutes or more to begin to set in. 

 

At low levels it should cause your hands to shake so your aiming is messed up and you still lose food and water from containers when you use them. This would be the stress level of someone who has killed one or two people recently.

 

At moderate levels it should make you more prone to getting infections and diseases. This is accurate to real life as stress has been proven to make your immune system decrease it's effectiveness. The hand shaking should become more pronounced. Your character should need food and water more frequently as their appetite increases due to stress. This is the stress level of someone who has killed 3 to 5 people recently.     

 

At high levels it should make you bleed out faster as the stress increases your blood pressure. Infections should be even easier to acquire and harder to get rid of. And the hand shaking should become very severe. If you want more realism you should have characters at this level of stress sometimes fail to shoot their weapon when the mouse button is clicked.This is the stress level of someone who has killed more than 5 people recently.

 

Antidepressants should temporarily make the hand shaking go away but have no actual effect on the stress level. You could even include other drugs which would alleviate the hand shaking even better like muscle relaxants, opiates (another use for morphine), or other narcotics. Antidepressants and other drugs should be very rare. 

 

If more realism is wanted a character should have a 1 in 25 chance of being immune to stress to simulate the natural occurrence of antisocial disorders among people. A character shouldn't know they are antisocial until they kill someone and don't have any reaction to it. 

 

This system won't stop KOS but should discourage it. Players who wish to go on murderous rampages or kill every other player they meet would be able to hunt for drugs that would suppress the symptoms they experience. Or they could just go out into the woods away from other players for a while and let the symptoms fade over time as the stress level goes down.

 

The symptoms should have an onset time of about 10 minutes. This would allow players who are being shot at to respond without having to worry to much. Then if they retreat or hide for a bit the symptoms should fade. It should take about 15 minutes for a single kills worth of stress to fade. 

 

For more realism you could simply add in the ability to have a stroke or heart attack from stress. The stroke or heart attack would have a small chance to kill you but normally would just cause you to lose a large chunk of blood. Or you could add in auditory hallucinations like weapons being loaded and footsteps nearby to simulate the paranoia a person would begin to feel under such combat related stress. 

 

Anyways thats my idea for dealing with the KOS mentality.

 

As the game currently stands I feel that it becomes a bit to much of a game and less of an experience because the fact is that killing others has no effect on you unlike real life. If the game is about normal survivors then they should not be able to just become murder machines without suffering some kind of debilitating mental damage. Most of the KOS I have witnessed has been the kind of behavior that would flag a person as being mentally unstable in real life. 

 

Thanks for your time,

rzach

 

Nope

[crazykage 1063]

"The military and the police both spend millions of dollars to provide ongoing training to their members so they can instill a shoot first, think about consequences later reaction."

 

I stopped reading your post right about 3 or 4 words after the conclusion of that sentence op. I LITTERALLY did a double take and had to reread that sentence to make sure it said what I thought it did.

 

Its just about the DUMBEST thing I have EVER heard someone say about the military/law enforcement. Clearly spoken out of pure RAW IGNORANCE. You could have called military members idiots for blindly serving the wishes of a corrupt government, and I would have said "That is an opinion. And whats more, I can actually RESPECT it. Clearly, he has learned things, formed an opinion, and made a stance."

 

But no. Your comment is obviously made in ignorance. And had it not been, I would be very offended, on behalf of my fellow service members in my own countries' military, and the honorable warriors of other militaries as well, AND for law enforcement officers everywhere. THEM especially. Nobody puts their asses on the line more often than police officers, who have some of the strictest ROE to be seen anywhere.

 

So, because you are clearly IGNORANT, I am not offended.

 

I would suggest THINKING in the future, before letting words fly forth willy nilly from your suck hole.

 

-with respect, CPL Thomas A. Morse, USMC. Hon. Discharged.

[dannynickelov 126]

Compare this to TWD. There you also have people who are killing on sight, you think people will be friendly to everyone in a real apocalypse? I don't think so.

[No Classes PLEASE 5]

Oh the irony of you calling someone stupid troll. Apparently your lack of reading comprehension is special, so let me explain in more detail;

 

I expressed, that from my experience it appears that the younger players are likely to seek the killing or otherwise enjoy griefing in game. Not calling anyone cheater but in popular games like COD, which even the elderly play in not small numbers, you would hardly find them cheating. I suggest to look up what taking the high ground means again.

 

As of your reference to my position being weak and my ideas being trash, you probably mean some imaginary internet position but that aside, I never said my ideas were the best from them all but at least I have tried, whereas seeing as you contributed to this forums with staggering 10 ( 9 actually, if I count the one I am now replying to ) posts, would you mind and enlighten me in which way you feel valuable in these forums?

I think I am starting to understand what you meant by teh internet position now. 

 

Back to KoS - I never said I want to eliminate KoS and I never said KoS is the only thing to do ingame either. The issue I have is that it's nearly guaranteed to get killed on sight which is not the way, or better yet, my way, of playing the game. What I am saying is that if zombies were to be removed, what really makes dayz so different from arma or how is it different from any other PVP oriented game?

 

I hear you, yes the zombies are there but they are just minor annoyance. All I want is more in depth from dayz as I can already get my fix in project reality PvP yet actually enjoy some teamwork on top of it.

 

oh my god you are clueless. and yet another person criticizing somebody's reading comprehension when their own is fucking terrible.

 

the "imaginery internet position" that i was referring to was that of the people you seem to agree with who think the game should be redesigned to punish killing players through a game mechanic, which goes completely against what this game is all about. and your example of people cheating in CoD...? er, uh, wut? what are you even talking about? what does that even have anything to do with whats being discussed in this thread or your original post? you said that the "mature" players are the ones giving "sensible" solutions to the KoS "problem", which is just plain not true as all the ideas are extremely bad. maybe if you stopped fixating so much on stereotyping people's ages based on their playstyles you'd realize that. nobody's talking about cheating, or CoD, except morons like you that constantly bring it up as if its relevent and that in doing so it somehow puts you above other people who may or may not have even played it. i don't play CoD, but it sucks as far as i'm concerned and it has nothing to do with DayZ other than they both have guns and a first person view. you're all over the place and you barely make any sense, and i promise you it has nothing to do with my reading comprehension.

 

keep attacking people over literary semantics, post count and making accusations and assumptions about peoples age on an internet forum since you obviously have nothing real to say.

Edited January 11, 2014 by No Classes PLEASE

[assassinofkings151 38]

 

Alright so I am really getting annoyed with KOS. For a game that tries to make an "authentic" zombie survival simulator this game really fails to effectively deal with KOS.

 

First is real life people actually have a hard time killing other people unless they are acting under strong emotional duress or they are naturally wired to not be empathic (psychopathic or aspd individuals). People who are not mentally equipped to be killers suffer from a variety of problems when they take another persons life. The military and the police both spend millions of dollars to provide ongoing training to their members so they can instill a shoot first, think about consequences later reaction. They also spend millions on counselling to try and deal with the after math of their members having to shoot at other people. 

 

Unless DAYZ is trying to be a game about people with antisocial personality disorder surviving the zombie apocalypse there needs to be some mechanic that deals with KOS. I propose that the developers introduce a stress mechanic. If you kill another person you gain stress. Stress depletes with time and can be stopped temporarily by having antidepressants or stimulants.

 

As your stress level goes up it would take longer periods of time to go decrease and it would have a couple of debilitating effects on the character. First stress shouldn't immediately bother your character. It should go up rapidly but the effects should take a few minutes or more to begin to set in. 

 

At low levels it should cause your hands to shake so your aiming is messed up and you still lose food and water from containers when you use them. This would be the stress level of someone who has killed one or two people recently.

 

At moderate levels it should make you more prone to getting infections and diseases. This is accurate to real life as stress has been proven to make your immune system decrease it's effectiveness. The hand shaking should become more pronounced. Your character should need food and water more frequently as their appetite increases due to stress. This is the stress level of someone who has killed 3 to 5 people recently.     

 

At high levels it should make you bleed out faster as the stress increases your blood pressure. Infections should be even easier to acquire and harder to get rid of. And the hand shaking should become very severe. If you want more realism you should have characters at this level of stress sometimes fail to shoot their weapon when the mouse button is clicked.This is the stress level of someone who has killed more than 5 people recently.

 

Antidepressants should temporarily make the hand shaking go away but have no actual effect on the stress level. You could even include other drugs which would alleviate the hand shaking even better like muscle relaxants, opiates (another use for morphine), or other narcotics. Antidepressants and other drugs should be very rare. 

 

If more realism is wanted a character should have a 1 in 25 chance of being immune to stress to simulate the natural occurrence of antisocial disorders among people. A character shouldn't know they are antisocial until they kill someone and don't have any reaction to it. 

 

This system won't stop KOS but should discourage it. Players who wish to go on murderous rampages or kill every other player they meet would be able to hunt for drugs that would suppress the symptoms they experience. Or they could just go out into the woods away from other players for a while and let the symptoms fade over time as the stress level goes down.

 

The symptoms should have an onset time of about 10 minutes. This would allow players who are being shot at to respond without having to worry to much. Then if they retreat or hide for a bit the symptoms should fade. It should take about 15 minutes for a single kills worth of stress to fade. 

 

For more realism you could simply add in the ability to have a stroke or heart attack from stress. The stroke or heart attack would have a small chance to kill you but normally would just cause you to lose a large chunk of blood. Or you could add in auditory hallucinations like weapons being loaded and footsteps nearby to simulate the paranoia a person would begin to feel under such combat related stress. 

 

Anyways thats my idea for dealing with the KOS mentality.

 

As the game currently stands I feel that it becomes a bit to much of a game and less of an experience because the fact is that killing others has no effect on you unlike real life. If the game is about normal survivors then they should not be able to just become murder machines without suffering some kind of debilitating mental damage. Most of the KOS I have witnessed has been the kind of behavior that would flag a person as being mentally unstable in real life. 

 

Thanks for your time,

rzach

 

 

 

I don't like the idea of stress or sanity defects on characters for killing other players at all.

 

It wont be implemented purely for the reasons that PvP is such a core aspect of this game and any tampering with it will just upset a large proportion of the community. As PvE elements get added there should be a slight decrease in KoS "mentality" if that's what you wanna call it. At the end of the day though (and im not gonna go on a rant here) if you have a problem with KoS its because your a victim of it, and you can only be a victim of it if you yourself don't take precautions. I wont batter you with statements of the hardcore nature of Day Z, but you have to understand the sandbox nature of the game and the freedom other players have to do what they want within this world and one of those possibilities is there paranoia and with that their ability to shoot on sight. 

 

Being able to shoot at another person on a video-game will never have negative affects on the instigator, even though this is DayZ. Its a survival game, and sometimes surviving means having to cut loose ends or not take any chances with trusting people, my suggestion would be to avoid confrontation or communicate from a distance to other players. Dont moan about KoS if your the type of player to try do the whole "lets be friends!" act because more than likely you'll be shot straight in the face (im not insinuating you are this type of player though).

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Miles

[Bizzyb 9]

The only real problem is too many people try to understand the "realism". Stop, zombies are adorable and fun, but are not real. Also while cheetos crumbs fly from your shirt as you type how you dare imagine you understand hunger and what the human mind is capable of. 

 

I was going to say that and be like most people who didn't read your post and replied anyway. Then I read it and concurred completely. I had  similar suggestion when this game was a mod. Basically it was "stress makes you need more food/water". This was to combat the ENDLESS camping weirdos WILL INEVITABLY DO in this game. I mean no offense or racism, its just a global game and there is absolutely no limit to what some people, from odd countries, will do in games like this. Ive seen people spend weeks just laying down somewhere, others in spots it was impossible to stop them (without helios), spawn camping, loot cycling, military base camping.. You name it. 

 

Now before someone jumps on his high horse to call me a fag, I only play this game for the PvP interactions. Im just a little bit older, so I know in a game like this they are only rewarding when you cultivate them... Like not killing new players, letting them get established and then assaulting them.

Therefore I think stress is a must have addition to this game, without it or something similar this game will NEVER see its full potential. I promise you this, with 11 years PAID experience in the industry to speak on. 

 

Letting odd gamers from all over the globe "dictate" player boundaries will never ever ever work. If hacking stays as prevalent as it was too, then its already over before this game even launches.

 

They need to get to work, add in a 'stress' system, and work to make this a great game. 

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I mean no offense or racism, its just a global game and there is absolutely no limit to what some people, from odd countries, will do in games like this.

 

What in the living holy Hell does the country they're from have to do with it? What an odd thing to say. People just have different tastes and spend their time in different ways. I don't see how their country of origin is at all relevant.

 

It's not racist, exactly, but certainly does come across as a bit xenophobic.

 

Now before someone jumps on his high horse to call me a fag,

 

What the what? Why would anyone do that?

 

I'm so confused.

Edited January 10, 2014 by ZedsDeadBaby

[DaveAzoicer (DayZ) 135]

What in the living holy Hell does the country they're from have to do with it? What an odd thing to say. People just have different tastes and spend their time in different ways. I don't see how their country of origin is at all relevant.

 

It's not racist, exactly, but certainly does come across as a bit xenophobic.

 

 

What the what? Why would anyone do that?

 

I'm so confused.

 

Have you missed a huge amount of posts where people just throw insults at people who dont or do KoS?

It's saddening.

 

On-Topic: I do like the thought off a stress-system, makes people THINK before murdering someone.

Edited January 10, 2014 by DaveAzoicer

[Window Licker 504]

TL:DR for most of this, back to the lovely argument about killing causing mental instability I see.

 

Things that where over looked;

 

1: This is an alpha and as such is the bare bones of the game and even those bones are incomplete.

 

2: Killing other players is done for- fun, fear, elimination of competition for limited resources or to prevent further threats (an unarmed person might scream friendly now, put a gun in his hand and their tune might change)

 

3: There is a severe lack of endgame but the devs aren't gonna start working on that until they iron all the bugs and glitches out (If you build a house on a cracked foundation it will fall over)

 

so OP thank you for contributing your thoughts, feeling and... ha ha ha ha no I couldn't do it with a straight face, this topic has been beaten like a Russel Crows assistant, just go post in any number of other thread's on the same subject.

[HazZarD87 166]

TL:DR for most of this, back to the lovely argument about killing causing mental instability I see.

 

Things that where over looked;

 

1: This is an alpha and as such is the bare bones of the game and even those bones are incomplete.

 

2: Killing other players is done for- fun, fear, elimination of competition for limited resources or to prevent further threats (an unarmed person might scream friendly now, put a gun in his hand and their tune might change)

 

3: There is a severe lack of endgame but the devs aren't gonna start working on that until they iron all the bugs and glitches out (If you build a house on a cracked foundation it will fall over)

 

so OP thank you for contributing your thoughts, feeling and... ha ha ha ha no I couldn't do it with a straight face, this topic has been beaten like a Russel Crows assistant, just go post in any number of other thread's on the same subject.

And on that bombshell the "don't KOS me!!" crowd can scurry back to their carebear pens.

[janol 65]

This was quite good and well argued post by OP, so I don't agree with all the hate (really, I thought this game was mostly liked by bit more mature folk than many of the commentators seem to be). Sure the idea has been around plenty of times, but this one stands out for having been well thought through.

 

KoS or not, well-implemented stress mechanics would be interesting and realistic on their own right. "Infected", darkness and hunger could likewise contribute to stress level. Such a mechanic would by no means be implemented only to punish bandits - if done properly it would make the game more difficult for all players. Besides, stress has deep physiological sides, so it's not just something felt subjectively in a passing manner and shrugged off.

 

NB most people have de facto emerged from wars severely traumatized. So the unfortunate frequency of such occurreces - or citing their tragic death-count - is of little use as a evidence here. Because you have to kill to survive doesn't mean that it has no effect.

[doomdesire86 16]

It's not a "problem". I hate it when people refer to KoS as a "problem" like it needs to be removed and fixed.

[raynor009 204]

No. Rocket should not read.

[Guest]

I think this will solve the kos problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM3ZEbYGGXk