Accuracy comparison: DayZ vs ARMA 2

[infiltrator 275]

The dispersion doesn't bother me, especially considering the context with these civilian survivors. The weapons shouldn't be laser accurate.

 

I don't have a problem hitting my targets.

 

So let me get this straight - if you are an untrained civilian, weapons have magical dispersion, as opposed to realistic sway? Is that what you're trying to convey?

[crazykage 1063]

As a person who has shot all of the weapons being discussed on multiple occasions, I will spare everyone my spewing of gun information and simply say "Gews is right". On all points.

 

I'll only add here, that if I pick up a rifle for the first time ever, grab a handful of military surplus ammo, then fire at a target, putting the sight on the same point every time, what I'll get is a decent grouping somewhere other than where I'm aiming.

 

The point? Consistency. Yes, the bullet may not hit where I'm aiming, but it will hit where it is going to hit, acurrately. It isn't going to fire once off to the left, once off to the right, then above or below unless I've somehow grabbed a handful of "random" ammo or my scope is loose. The same gun, regardless of condition, firing the same ammo, regardless of quality, is going to give you consistent shots. You can compensate for this with skill. You can't compensate for random.

 

this, folks, is some real shit.

 

man knows what hes talking about.

[Atheon 31]

Does anyone know if the dispersion is like this because.... the other systems that are meant to be in simply aren't in yet? And these are placeholder systems? 

 

That seems rather likely to me, but I could be wrong. 

[rodolfoxiii 71]

the weapons system is just broken

 

face it

[xRann 126]

the weapons system is just broken

 

face it

It's hard to tell if it is actually broken or functioning like it was intended...I hope that it's brokedick and they address it, at least acknowledge it anyway.

[Atheon 31]

I'm fairly sure since the lead developer was in the armed forces he has some knowledge about weaponry lol. This whole mod started because he had to do survivalist training in his time in the NZ(?) armed forces. 

[Jack Dant 158]

Does anyone know if the dispersion is like this because.... the other systems that are meant to be in simply aren't in yet? And these are placeholder systems? 

 

That seems rather likely to me, but I could be wrong. 

I think so, but... weapon sway is already in when you are tired or have a broken arm. Yet at other times your gun is incredibly stable. And that's the main mechanic they should be using to simulate the civilian survivor vs trained soldier distinction, not random dispersion.

[xRann 126]

I'm fairly sure since the lead developer was in the armed forces he has some knowledge about weaponry lol. This whole mod started because he had to do survivalist training in his time in the NZ(?) armed forces. 

Correct, NZ. And I realize that, I just hope they keep to that instead of giving it the "gamey" feel. Also, like gibonez has said in various threads, incorporating ACE. I haven't had time to toy with the mod, but it's seems very well done and would force those that desire to snipe to really work for it while boosting up the gunplay experience for everyone.

[Celt (DayZ) 30]

So, what's the news? Any changes or rebalances, or is everything still awful?

 

I still haven't heard anything from the devs addressing this issue. I'd love to hear at least something confirming that they've heard our complaints.

[frozenjaws 69]

You pull these radii from ingame files or from testing? Not that I really doubt any of these, just curious.

Anyway, yeah, I'm at a bit of a loss for understanding why the dispersion seems so crap. It 'could' be that most of the weapons we are using are ruined or badly damaged, but we can't tell due to a current bug preventing weapon status from showing up.

Also, is there any word on if we'll be able to repair weapons or attachments in the future?

Well there's the Weapon cleaning kit, which actually does repair weapons already even tho im not sure theres a way to damage the weapons without having them in a bag getting shot. 

And at the moment im quite sure the status of weapon attachments dont actually impact the usefullness of the attachment, not counting scopes or sights ofc, but magpul elements and compensator dont have a lessened effect if they are damaged.. if i am wrong id love more info on the subject and if it wasnt for it being quite late i would have been able to remember the source of this information.

 

Edit* Here's a link to a website describing the effects of attachments on dispersion and soon to have dexterity.. The goal is to have less dispersion and i can only assume you also want high dexterity from the context on this info (mainly by looking at the CQB and Bipod).

http://dayzdb.com/items?type=27-attachment

Edited April 12, 2014 by Frozenjaws

[gibonez 3633]

So, what's the news? Any changes or rebalances, or is everything still awful?

 

I still haven't heard anything from the devs addressing this issue. I'd love to hear at least something confirming that they've heard our complaints.

 

Most people would consider it still awful.

 

For me personally it will always be awful unless they are mirror copies of their real life counterparts.

[teapot156 79]

I think the M4 should be more accurate mechanically but I don't think we should be able to take advantage of that accuracy to the fullest. I've played flashpoint, arma 2, and the dayz mod and aiming was always too easy. The m4 isn't currently the tack driver that it is in real life but it gets the job done on semi auto perfectly fine. The mod system currently is quite weird. A stock shouldn't grant such a large penalty or bonus as its just a piece of plastic.

So in my opinion, aiming should be difficult unless crouched or prone unlike arma 2.

I like the untrained survivor approach.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

for perfectly aimed shot and ranges, the accuracy in arma 2 seems to be pretty realistic.

this is disappointing that dayz makers have failed so badly implementing life-like ballistics when they have most work done for them.

Edited April 12, 2014 by SGT. Kalme

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I personally do not expect ARMA like accuracy as we are not trained soldiers in DayZ.  I think their challenge right now is going to be getting the weapons to replicate average Joe firing them.

[gibonez 3633]

I personally do not expect ARMA like accuracy as we are not trained soldiers in DayZ. I think their challenge right now is going to be getting the weapons to replicate average Joe firing them.

So replicate that by sway, sight misalignment, weapon resting and realistic elevation adjustments?

Or just keep the magical cone of fire and magic pieces of accuracy plastic mechanics?

[Ghostflux 100]

I personally do not expect ARMA like accuracy as we are not trained soldiers in DayZ.  I think their challenge right now is going to be getting the weapons to replicate average Joe firing them.

 

Random deviation doesn't make any sense even if an average Joe was shooting a weapon. Especially if the random deviation is many times higher than what an untrained individual would experience. Also, it's a static value, while in real life you would be able to practice and get better.

 

The M4 right now kicks like a mule, try a 3 round burst fire at about 20 meters, and it'll kick about 1 meter up, still atleast 3/4th a meter even if you try to compensate for the recoil by pulling your mouse down. That's hardly representative of real life. It's so far off that I would have preferred ARMA 2 values to be used.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Ghostflux

[ZomboWTF 527]

there should definitely be andom dispersion in the game, and it should be more than in arma 2

 

the gameplay changes through limiting the range people can shoot at, making it way more probable people will ty to fight in another way than just shooting everyone in a 600 meter radius while being completely safe themselves

 

don't get me wrong, of course you can fire accurately with an m4 or m16 or even AKM on 300 meters, if the gun is set up right, even as an amateur, but it would not be the best gameplay-wise if people could just snipe from hill to hill on chernarus

 

giving people too powerfull weapons results in a less survivaly gameplay experience, imgaine you could fix a tank in dayz standalone, or get an apache to work...

 

EDIT: a very f*cking cool thing to add would be if every weapon would be slightly mis-aligned with its sight from picking it up (safe for the shotguns of course) shooting slightly too far to any direction

 

you could compensate that with skill, and a guy just picking up a gun would be in a disadvantage against someone running around with it for days, and maybe they even could add that you can adjust your gun with scrwwdrivers or something else (weapon repair kits anyone?)

Edited April 12, 2014 by Zombo

[eleventhavenue 204]

there should definitely be andom dispersion in the game, and it should be more than in arma 2

 

the gameplay changes through limiting the range people can shoot at, making it way more probable people will ty to fight in another way than just shooting everyone in a 600 meter radius while being completely safe themselves

 

don't get me wrong, of course you can fire accurately with an m4 or m16 or even AKM on 300 meters, if the gun is set up right, even as an amateur, but it would not be the best gameplay-wise if people could just snipe from hill to hill on chernarus

 

giving people too powerfull weapons results in a less survivaly gameplay experience, imgaine you could fix a tank in dayz standalone, or get an apache to work...

 

Then make aiming hard.

Problem solved.

There is no need for magic crazy-dispersion because ´´U ar no train solder´´ and it's even more stupid when magical bipods removes these penatlies.

I can't see how, in any way, this solution solves any problem at all. Besides, if you have a magical compensator and a magical bipod on your Mosina, you can still snipe with perfect accuracy. Make aiming hard, instead. Like, you know, in real life.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

I personally do not expect ARMA like accuracy as we are not trained soldiers in DayZ.  I think their challenge right now is going to be getting the weapons to replicate average Joe firing them.

 

But I am trained to shoot a rifle. So how is this possible I can't shoot a ducking rifle?

[xalienax 621]

But I am trained to shoot a rifle. So how is this possible I can't shoot a ducking rifle?

This is why i like the amra 2 and specifically ACE way of doing things. Those willing to take the time to learn how it works IRL will have an advantage- those with better "aim" will hit more often- They should NOT be introducing random gamey mechanics like random dispersion. imho this is simply rockets pathetic and disgusting attempt to add value to this crappy attachments. Mcgyverd' weapons make nice fiction pieces, but i came here for a hardcore simulation environment not arcadey collect all the attachments BS.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

I came here to sit in a forest and eat my beans.

 

But I like my forest and beans very realistic. And currently they are not very realistic.

 

Metaphorically speaking.

[Celt (DayZ) 30]

Well, apparently with the AKM that has been added in experimental, adding a folding stock increases accuracy to a great degree, while with the wood stock you can't hit shit at long range.

 

 

I had really hoped this shit would stop, but apparently we're just going to have to get used to ridiculous RPGish weaponry and attachments.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Celt

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Well, apparently with the AKM that has been added in experimental, adding a folding stock increases accuracy to a great degree, while with the wood stock you can't hit shit at long range.

 

 

I had really hoped this shit would stop, but apparently we're just going to have to get used to ridiculous RPGish weaponry and attachments.

Alpha, alpha, alpha.  Jesus people.  Most of this shit is placeholders and will get fixed later.

[Katana67 2907]

Yeah, it's just silly and arbitrary. Needs to stop ASAP.

 

Would like to hear something from the developers on whether it's "working as intended" or whether they intend on changing it. Because right now, most of the insinuation behind it being indicative of a "direction" is just hearsay.

[agentneo 337]

does anyone know if they have fixed the dust clouds so you can see the bullet impacts again??

 

I dont actually find the weapons as bad as shown in these diagrams..my m4 and Mosin shots always seem right on the top even at 200/300m...haven;t really noticed this massive dispersion range or i would be missing zombies often,, i pretty much always hit the zombies first shot and i've shot a lot of them...

 

Also i dont like all this we are untrained noob civilians and not military talk. from just playing games for many years, paintballing, BB guns and rifles, and other basic team games we can handle and shoot a gun fairly accurately.. And thats coming from someone in the UK with no access to fire arms...

Edited May 22, 2014 by AgentNe0