Accuracy comparison: DayZ vs ARMA 2

[The_Man 393]

Even the most poorly maintained mosin with the crappiest most corroded surplus ammo would still shoot at about 2 moa and far more accurate than the mosin in game.

 

Oh, you have experience with such a thing? I have none. I suppose you could be right but...do you have any sources? 

[wigbig 17]

Unrealistic bullet dispersion is definitely not the way to go about balancing the guns.

There should always be swaying of the gun when shooting, made even more pronounced depending on mant factors dictating your health.

For example if you are tired then you may not be able to hold the gun in a certain position indefinitely (depending on its weight), and won't be able to hold your breath as long. Hunger and thirst could also be factors.

If they ever add drugs then caffeine could add a small but noticable shaking effect.

There are surely many ways of balancing the gun accuracy without changing them. They should try to make the guns as true to real life as they can in my opinion.

[libertine 351]

I don't want sniper rifles as accurate as Arma in any way, shape or form. I never liked them, but then started using them for fun about a month ago when i decided to be a bandit for a little while and i found they were so easy to use it took any and all challenge out of using one.

 

My advice is to look at America's Army 1, if thats even possible. They had great accuracy characteristic and a great "feel" to them. The sniper was extremely cool. You shot, the rifle went way up and just stayed there. It felt very authentic and realistic.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Thane

[gibonez 3633]

I don't want sniper rifles as accurate as Arma in any way, shape or form. I never liked them, but then started using them for fun about a month ago when i decided to be a bandit for a little while and i found they were so easy to use it took any and all challenge out of using one.

 

My advice is to look at America's Army 1, if thats even possible. They had great accuracy characteristic and a great "feel" to them. The sniper was extremely cool. You shot, the rifle went way up and just stayed there. It felt very authentic and realistic.

 

 

Accuracy is not the problem with sniper rifles its how stupidly easy they are to adjust for elevation.

 

Would fix the problem.

[BelMarduk 169]

Civilian has nothing to do with it and is an illogical excuse. What happens when someone leaves the military? They become a civilian. Civilians hunt for food and sport. Getting a sight picture with any rifle is pretty basic since they all work off the same principle: match front sight picture with back sight configuration.

 

The back story for our characters has never been established. Until a dev comes out and states, "Your characters are untrained office workers that lived in suburbia and do not know how to use a rifle.", the civilian excuse won't work. If they do state such a thing then we shouldn't know how to replace an engine in a car, fly helicopters, or use most medical gear/medicine adequately without harming ourselves.

 

The dispersion is crap and needs to be adjusted sometime, but its not a priority for now which is fine. Its a known issue. Gews is just giving us concrete evidence proving it. Thanks Gews.

The back story is what you make it...

As someone that has put 10's of thousands of rounds down range. More to the point, trained 10's of hundreds (well maybe 10's of 10's) of people to put rounds down range safely. Without having put 10's of thousands of rounds down range, no one (besides maybe an idiot savant who's talent is weapons), NO ONE is going to be immediately proficient in the handling of any weapon regardless, especially in the zombie apocalypse...

That said, there is no 'perfect' way to have that be an immersive aspect to a video game. DayZ being a game without levels, sandbox survival, our gear is our level. Upgrades to the weapons increasing the accuracy/grouping of that weapon seems to be a very good (albeit imperfect) solution to simulate that.  I agree though, the 'values' need tweaked and balanced.

 

EDIT About your back story. It is, as I said, what ever you make it to be. One thing you are not however, is a special forces weapons expert. You might have been, but you retain no 'muscle memory', just the fundamentals of operation... thats the trade off for me being the industrial electrician but can't get the power plant back up. B)

Edited January 4, 2014 by BelMarduk

[libertine 351]

We may be having a semantical difference, but "accuracy" WAS a problem in Dayz mod as it is made up of many components. I picked off people from large distances while they were sprinting, using some quick basic guesstimation. It felt like the player hit boxes were way too big too. It is possible they could use differing hitboxes for different weapons. Mouse control is over-precise too, I think they should put in some momentum, like when you aim with the Alt key (head view for me), much harder.

[kermo50 31]

In the Arma2 dayz mod weapons were too accurate. I think the pistols and mosin should be left alone, although I TOTALLY agree on the M4A1 it definitely needs to be improved! I don't think it needs to be as accurate as it was in the mod but at the moment it is just way too inaccurate.

[TheRealAzrael 10]

Doesn't change the fact they're very inaccurate. I'm mostly talking about the stock M4, and the two pistols.The Mosin I do not have nearly as much of a problem with. I think it could use a slight increase but like I said, it's not "terrible", it's an old milsurp rifle. Yup, the bipod significantly improves the accuracy. In fact I would say with bipod, it's probably too accurate for an old Mosin. I haven't confirmed stats for the bipod yet but it's a whole other level, closer to the Lapua than the stock Mosin.

At 800m with a damaged bipod and pristine scope, legitamately 1/3 shots should hit their target..... at 600m i watch rounds impact fairly far away from zombies..... and hitting a prone player is more luck than skill.....

Now to shoot a 1x1ft target (human head) at 600m should require a great deal of skill..... but since there is no "skill progression" with a weapon, then yes, we should be able to pick up a weapon and use it at the level of a well trained soldier..... to which, 1000m shots with precision rifles aren't in the realm of the impossible.

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

Shooting is not that hard. Marine Corps recruits that have never shot before have been hitting man sized targets from 500 yards with iron sites on shitty M16s under the stress of boot camp since for ever.

 

Now adding in all the other factors, moving, firefight, ZA, different elevations ect makes it much more difficult. I think it is exciting to when there are rounds hitting all around you and you make it out. Also great when you actually get a nice kill shot on some one. I think the M4 should be much more accurate than it is though. The pistols too, depending on range of course. Maybe the buckshot and shotgun will be the ultimate weapon lol.

[TheRealAzrael 10]

well i kinda like this "inaccuracy". In arma you play as, well basically a soldier. In dayz sa your a civilian. Give a m4 or a mosin to a regular joe and i assure you his accuracy wont be the same as a trained individual. So imo leave as is, it makes thing more interesting. If anything make ammo super rare.

On a side note...I am a trained soldier, and I've personally seen other "trained" soldiers that couldn't hit a target at 100m with an m4 witha red dot....... some people just can't shoot...... doesn't matter whether your trained or not. My wife shot skeet more accurately her first time touching a shotgun than after I did after 1,000 shells........

[ProGamerGov 74]

That would be preferable... but also more noticeable to the player (cue complaints about ArmA 3's sway). On the other hand the player can compensate for it, something no one can do with complete randomness.

Arma 3's sway got changed to copy VBS2's sway. Which has more up and down movement and is closer to breathing movements rather than unrealistic random crap.

[ProGamerGov 74]

In the Arma2 dayz mod weapons were too accurate. I think the pistols and mosin should be left alone, although I TOTALLY agree on the M4A1 it definitely needs to be improved! I don't think it needs to be as accurate as it was in the mod but at the moment it is just way too inaccurate.

They should be realistic, not modified for the sake of some stupid balance for PvP players.

[Etherimp 1323]

well i kinda like this "inaccuracy". In arma you play as, well basically a soldier. In dayz sa your a civilian. Give a m4 or a mosin to a regular joe and i assure you his accuracy wont be the same as a trained individual. So imo leave as is, it makes thing more interesting. If anything make ammo super rare.

 

 

Sorry, but I have to call you out on bad argument/logic.

 

 

In ARMA 2, you are a civilian playing as a soldier.

 

In DayZ, you are a civilian playing as a civilian. 

 

In both cases, you are a person playing a game as someone/thing else.. There is no "backstory" for your character when you spawn in.. You do not know if the person who washed up on the shore of Cherno was trained with weapons or not.. Maybe he was a farmer, who shot at packs of wolves to protect his livestock.. Maybe he was a hunter, who has got a perfect Heart Shot on a running Buck at 200m with a Lee Enfield.. Maybe he was ex-military and served in a local conflict.. Maybe he was police or a security officer who was trained in urban combat.

 

See, the only determining factor for WHO your character is is WHO you are, and how you play that character.. I played Counter-Strike and Counter-Strike Source competitively for 7+ years, and all told, I have about 17 years of First Person Shooter experience. Why should my character have artificially horrible aim, even though I do everything right, as a player? 

 

If I know how to lead my shot, why should the game artificially compensate for my skill with some arbitrary random number to make me miss? 

 

That's absolute bullshit and it does not encourage good gameplay. It encourages people to just spray as many bullets as possible at as close of range as possible and hope they hit, rather than encouraging people to learn how the guns work and how to shoot accurately.

 

Furthermore, if the game is supposed to be REALISTIC, then the guns should have REALISTIC dispersion and bullet drop and muzzle velocity.. Which it DOESN'T.

 

You can train a skinny, nerdy, 12 year old boy from the suburbs how to accurately fire an M16 and consistently hit a target at 200 meters. We know this, because it's been done.. And what is that boy, if not a civilian?

 

Hell, when I was 10 years old I was shooting a 50lb compound bow and grouping arrows together in about a 4 inch diameter around the bullseye of a target around 30 yards away. That's more accurate than any of the pistols in the game currently fire, and I WAS TEN YEARS OLD FIRING AN ANTIQUATED WEAPON WHICH IS BY ALL ACCOUNTS LESS ACCURATE THAN A .45 CAL PISTOL.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Etherimp

[kermo50 31]

They should be realistic, not modified for the sake of some stupid balance for PvP players.

 

Yes that's right "they should be realistic", exactly why the m4 needs improving.

[franzuu 211]

made a thread about how to fix some of it while still keeping things balanced and not too easy.

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/157752-proposed-changes-to-weapon-handling-debuffs-accuracy-tradeoffs-etc/#entry1580659

[oxide (DayZ) 2]

The spread definitely needs improvement, there's just too much of a luck element involved at the moment even at medium ranges. You shouldn't have to prone with a bipod to hit someone 300m away.

Edited January 4, 2014 by oxide

[vaelorth 8]

I think this should be based on purely skill; by that I mean get statistics from the mosin and Lee-Enfield, and then use those. Fact is the mosin and Lee-Enfield were both extremely accurate guns, famous for being used in the second World War. Not trying to give a history lesson, but if this is being realistic, the game should be realistic about the accuracy as well in my opinion.

[tommes 331]

well i kinda like this "inaccuracy". In arma you play as, well basically a soldier. In dayz sa your a civilian. Give a m4 or a mosin to a regular joe and i assure you his accuracy wont be the same as a trained individual. So imo leave as is, it makes thing more interesting. If anything make ammo super rare.

This is the standard argument but who knows how many good shoot are out there? I'm a civilian now. I was in the military once and am a decent shot. Many people are members of shooters guilds here around. Though they only shoot air pressure guns they have what it takes to be a good enough shot.

 

Then DayZ should not be a role playing game with skillpoints and leveling and whatnot. To assume people are inaccurate because the lack of training und somehow calculate that in is some form of this and I would really hate that.

[bummel313 12]

Accuracy is not the problem with sniper rifles its how stupidly easy they are to adjust for elevation.

 

Would fix the problem.

 

As an ACE veteran you got all my beans, good sir. Thats the way to go. Wanna see all the "i am a badass sniper bandit now cuz I found an AS50" type of guys ragequit because they cant do the math....

[wgaf 251]

People should be forced to zero any sights or optics they attach to their rifle.

Optics should spawn with a random zero, forcing the player to zero it once attached to a rifle.

And we should be forced to make adjustments in quarter MOA or whatever.

Probably not doable with the arma engine, but who knows?

Edited January 4, 2014 by HCHellCaptain

[weedmasta 784]

I dunno, in my experience, as long as I compensate for the left heading of the bullet (which is most likely just a bug) I hit exactly where I meant to every time with the mosin. I find it hard to believe that the dispersion is that high on a mosin at 500 meters. That would mean that statistically you should miss at least* 50% of your shots and that is not what I have seen in practice.

Edited January 4, 2014 by weedmasta

[Etherimp 1323]

People should be forced to zero any sights or optics they attach to their rifle.

Optics should spawn with a random zero, forcing the player to zero it once attached to a rifle.

And we should be forced to make adjustments in quarter MOA or whatever.

Probably not doable with the arma engine, but who knows?

 

 

No thanks.

[oxide (DayZ) 2]

As an ACE veteran you got all my beans, good sir. Thats the way to go. Wanna see all the "i am a badass sniper bandit now cuz I found an AS50" type of guys ragequit because they cant do the math....

Sounds like someone has been outplayed by bandits too many times :(

Edited January 4, 2014 by oxide

[Lancer 2-2 14]

Can't poor accuracy be chalked up to poorly maintained weapons, crappy ammo among other things? 

 

But not all ammo is crap, the other day I was able to stock 3 (coupled mags) full of 60 rounds each (one loaded) with a spare mag with 30 rounds in all pristine ammo for my M4A1 sporting all pristine parts except a "worn" silencer... then the ladder killed me...

 

Point being the figures given are default figures from the files so unless we can find 50+ different files and sets of figures each for different weapons configurations and ammo qualities and the fact we cannot see our overall weapon quality right now I cannot see this being the cause.

 

And putting it down to us being an untrained civilian is silly unless they give us a progression system of some kind so the more you fire a weapon then your skill goes up and the inaccuracy should go down... until you die and start over.

[Frostbyte_ 44]

Well then.

 

1. Guns are awful with stock attachments.

2. Better attachments improve performance significantly.

3. Guns themselves don´t seem to have stats atm.

4. Rocket has talked about more attachments/gun maintenance/character "skills"

 

 

To me it seems this is all just paving a way to a more complicated system. System where finding a as-50 doesn´t mean you become demigod sniper (let´s face it, aiming with mouse isn´t hard). System where after finding the gun, you need to maintain it, find replacement parts, find better parts, propably do some diy "enhancements", keep your character in good condition and find a proper firing position.

 

And personaly i like where it´s heading towards.

Now i´m not saying that stock guns should stay as they are, because they are a wee bit too inaccurate even for my liking, but if/when they do introduce more things that affect accuracy the ease of finding those should really be the factor that determines the stock accuracy.