The only solution for DayZ: Simulation.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I'm so glad to see there's some real discussion going on, I was going to give everyone who posted beans but it seems I've reached my quota for positive votes for today, lol.

 

 

This could be ameliorated by having specialists at the start and working in a group - one of you spawn as a medic, one of you spawn as a mechanic. BAM job done without having to find the books. The books could be a way for solo survivors (who probably want to take more than an hour to reach the endgame anyways) to skill up on their own without risking player interaction with strangers

 

 

EDIT: Just had to quickly find the thread http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/158954-the-value-of-a-character/

 

Basically merge the ideas from that one and this one together = win?

 

You know, I actually used to like this idea, a lot. I used to argue for it in the suggestion forums before Standalone came out. Mainly the idea I liked was having a sort of "invisible" skill system which would allow you to improve at tasks by reducing your failure rate, and basically those skills would be degraded a certain percentage every time you die, making your character more valuable and such. But now that I've turned over the idea a few times, it seems a bit unfair. While I agree it's not necessarily "realistic" to give everyone the ability to do surgery, it would stratify players. Players who die a lot would have a hard time gaining skills, and therefore would be artificially locked out of doing certain tasks.

 

Players who put tons of time into their character and play the game 24/7 would have an obvious advantage. While this works alright in other RPG games, where PvP and griefing is controlled, I don't think it would work so well in DayZ. Also, it opens up even more hacking vulnerabilities which the devs would have to address. What happens when hackers figure out how to "level" their character to full ability while legitimate players are stuck dying and trying to get better? What if you aren't able to level your character before you just get shot at Balota, and therefore you lose more skill, and such? It's not necessarily a bad idea, but I think it's just the wrong way to go about things in DayZ. I mean, this is supposed to be your story. Spawning people with a random class isn't fair, because they didn't choose those skills. If you let them choose skills, then chances are more people are going to choose one class over the others as it starts to provide a more well rounded advantage. I think the only effective way to do it is to simply make everything equally challenging for everyone.

 

One of the important features of the tool based simulation that I've shown here is that to do any specific task, you're going to need lots of specialized tools. For example, if you want to be a medic, then you're going to have to carry around medical supplies, bandages, painkillers, epipens, surgical tools like scalpels, forceps, suturing kits, that sort of thing. If you want to be a mechanic, you're going to have to carry around lots of tools like wrench, screwdriver, welding kit, vehicle parts, fuel cans, ect. If you want to build things, you need tools, building supplies, lots of rope and crafting items. On top of all that gear, you're going to need a weapon, food, water, and basic survival kit for your character to stay alive through it all. This compromise of gear will naturally encourage people into group roles I think. While it's still possible to play as a lone wolf, it's going to severely limit you in your range of what you can do. As Rocket said, your gear is like your level. So by requiring players to carry all this stuff around, and also by making heavy objects hard to move and cumbersome, and perhaps even forcing cooperation for certain tasks (like surgery, or building large constructions like walls, or lugging around lots of vehicle parts) people will naturally start to interact in a more neutral way. All the while, the PvP aspect still remains, which creates an atmosphere of tension and mistrust, between your group and outsiders, between people within your group, ect. That's why I've given up the idea of specifically assigned "classes" or "roles." After all, this is your story. You should be able to shape yourself while you are in this environment.

Edited January 1, 2014 by SalamanderAnder

[jackal40k@cfu.net 98]

As he said. I thought he was getting ahead of himself but he makes a good point. We need to stop stating the obvious so much in multiple threads. These major glitches will be taken care of through the bug tracker I believe. 

 

On top of that we have seen a lot of ideas that wouldn't really make DayZ unique but rather turn DayZ into more like other games or previous mods. 

 

The point of this thread is to inspire people to come up with where we want to see DayZ down the line. I'm not seeing much of that now because everyone is so focused on why the Alpha "sucks". I think we can leave it up to bug tracking and a few threads to take care of that. We as a community should be focused on the future of the game. 

 

We need more of this! The community needs to come to some sort of an agreement of what we think will make DayZ awesome with a long lifespan. We carry the fire! (The Road reference) 

 

Happy New Year everyone! May DayZ get more and more awesome with each update. Good luck to both the developers and our community. Let us start this new year right. High posters and veterans of this game need to work together to make this community solid! :) I hope I can be part of it. 

 

It's just too much. He talks about going in depth with piloting aircraft for instance. ARMA is a "general simulation". If I wanted to spend 10 to 30 minutes going through the startup procedure of an F-16 I would go play a "specialized simulation".

[gibonez 3633]

Agreed everything in the game should be as close to real life as possible.

 

Everything from the shooting ballistics, medic system even the sniping system needs to be as close to real life as possible. Only possible way to balance the game out real life will balance it.

[blacklabel79 949]

if you develop brain cancer, zombies stop to attack you.

 

from what i read in OP, its exactly what i whould expect as a basic frame for survival.

Edited January 1, 2014 by {Core}BlackLabel

[Roshi (DayZ) 396]

About the surgery. In real life, surgeons have a handbook in the room at all times. Surgery does take skill, but it is also an ABC check list kind of thing. Most surgeons think they are above using the handbook, and that's how you end up with a scalpel in your gut.

I've only done a few weeks of scrubbing in to surgery, but the bosses have never stopped to consult a manual.

[FroztyReaper 46]

EPIC POST!

 

I would love for that. Everything you wrote!

 

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY BEANS ;)

 

Dont listen to people thinking about "ugh no clipping zombs" that is in the program to be fixed people. This here is a really good vision and dream of what dayz can be!

This is how its done!

[mtclipz 31]

Appreciate the detailed ideas and you have put alot of thought into this.  However I think making the "Player Health" type things alot more realistic and complicated may make things too convoluted.  I appreciate the immersion it provides but it will get to a point where if you are damaged to a certain point you might as well just die and respawn in a fresh body because of how easy it is to gear up. 

[Isaaq 72]

Misunderstood what you were saying.

 

Think I fully support you now though.

 

The only thing I would say would be that everything should be watered down from real life... Sure, it's cool to have a game where everything is realistic, but after a certain point, it get's ridiculous. I think that players should need actual skill and basic knowledge on stuff their doing to well... Do it. But you shouldn't have to be an expert on car repairs to actually repair a car in game.

 

So, I agree - learn stuff to do stuff in game. But not to the extent that it just gets ridiculous at.

 

EDIT - Also, there should be a way to recover from anything other than death. I know that it's not very realistic in many, many circumstances, but it's a massive pain to just sit there, knowing you're going to die and there's nothing you can do about it. It's that balance between realism and playability.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Isaaq

[soulesseye 35]

thats all great and all op BUT...

it will all be ignored and people will continue to  pvp and kill fresh spawns at cherno/balota....it all sounds great but it will change nothing cause nothing you said is is really adding any more depth outside of

"hey more toys to pvp with"

 

pvp is not the solution its the problem...real measures need to be taken dayz in its current form even in the mod and rockets vision for it is very narrow minded and solely based around pvp and nothing else...the game simply cannot live as a giant death match with findable toys..AND IF its going to be left at that rocket might as well just remove the zombies and rename it ARMA-MMO.

 

all idea's are null and useless unless they add something real to do that does not involve pvp or force you too pvp...

as much as rocket wants to say sandbox...its not a sandbox..minecraft is a sandbox...dayz is just open world pvp and anyone dumb enough to think otherwise is fooling themselves...but the one thing it is not is a sandbox(thats just rockets cop-out for supporting a giant deathmatch with no depth).this game to be a sandbox lacks any sandbox mechanics there simply is not a single thing in dayz or the mod that makes it worthy of being called a sandbox..

 

this game is simply gonna end up warz repacked with a different UI if steps are not taken to curb the nothing but pvp play style...this game needs more depth and cars and planes etc are not gonna add that...what needs to be done is....take dayz epoch mod,state of decay,project zomboid and dayz standalone and mix them all together and you have a great game with plenty of depth structured pvp with goals and objectives reasons to not shoot on site reaons to build communitys etc etc.....now thats a zombie survival game...

 

lets hope arma-mmo lives a short life and dayz turns into something real and not just another open world deathmatch cop-out with zombies added for nothing but lulz and a selling point to go hey look zombies its not just pvp its survival...which is a god damn lie

 

also for the op everything you talk about great and all but those add game mechanics not game depth

Edited January 2, 2014 by soulesseye

[St. Jimmy 1631]

I have a suggestion how to make the game world feel way bigger. Very hardcore stamina/fatigue system so you prefer walking around. Chernarus could feel twice as much bigger than now.

[AlexLM 31]

Remember that ARMA2 Chernarus only takes place in South Zagoria region, which is only about a quarter of the size of Chernarus in total. Imo the game world should really stay within Chernarus but imagine the excitement of hitting up Novigrad because your friend's taken one to the head and Novigrad general hospital is the only facility with a neurosurgery department where you can get the tools to decompress his brain.

 

[Gerandar 212]

This game is not a simulator stop trying to make it into one.

[-Gews- 7443]

This game is not a simulator

 

Most certainly not...

 

stop trying to make it into one.

Why?

[OrBye 0]

Guys absolutely perfect ideas. But do you think that everyone will be having fun to do these all? It is a game. It must be fun. And in this much confusion I don't think most of the people will have fun. Even still in this way people are crying. Some things (in my opinion) must stay simplified.

Edited January 2, 2014 by OrBye

[phoboss 224]

Like a lot of your ideas, although I believe some are taking it a little to far. You just usually die way to quickly and then the 3 hours you put into fixing a car where all for nothing.

Complexity, yes please, but don't take it to far, this is still a game after all. And not everyone will think it's fun that they have to study a manual for 10 hours in order to learn how to fly a helo. If you want that, play take on helicopter.

But in general you have my beans good sir.

One thing I see as problematic is the base building and the possible destruction of said bases.

If the complexity is going to be anything like you propose, building a base, even a small one, will be gigantic undertaking. And I don't mind that at all, but if I put 20, maybe 30 hours into building a little house or an underground structure of some sort, I don't want it destroyed by a horde of zombies or some ass hole griefer (which this game has thousands of), while I'm at work or maybe on vacation (this was a huge annoyance in origins, having to login every 7 days to safe your house).

In real life I (or someone else) would be there or in the vicinity to defend it. But I can't defend my base 24/7 in a game.

Edited January 2, 2014 by phoboss

[blurhitz 244]

Most constructive post I've ever read in this forums. You're a genius! Thank you a lot for making me want to read all of your amazing ideas. It's a wall of text but I'm glad I read it all.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Why?

 

Because simulations require immense amounts of development time and effort to work, and that's why most simulation games focus on a single specific activity, like driving a truck or performing surgery.

 

In order for DayZ to be a simulation, it would need to be a military combat simulator, a vehicle building and maintenance simulator, a building construction simulator, a medicine and surgery simulator, a hunting simulator, a cooking simulator, etc., etc.

 

Yes, it would be cool. It would also take approximately eight years to leave Alpha and probably spend another 2-3 in Beta.

 

It's important to balance realism with playability. Yes, it's weird that we were able to carry car parts and fuel cans around in our inventory in the mod, and that kind of breaks immersion a little bit, but so what? It's also pretty weird that everyone knows how to perform blood testing and transfusions, bandages fix gunshot wounds, we can run essentially infinitely with 50kg of gear bouncing off our backs, items appear on the ground that have absolutely no business being there, we reincarnate infinitely, no matter how many zombies we kill there's always more, etc. etc.

 

A true simulation would essentially be an unplayable mess and take forever to make, so we have to compromise a little bit. Dean has already said he's not trying to make a simulation so we really shouldn't argue about it.

[-Gews- 7443]

Because simulations require immense amounts of development time and effort to work, and that's why most simulation games focus on a single specific activity, like driving a truck or performing surgery.

 

In order for DayZ to be a simulation, it would need to be a military combat simulator, a vehicle building and maintenance simulator, a building construction simulator, a medicine and surgery simulator, a hunting simulator, a cooking simulator, etc., etc.

 

Yes, it would be cool. It would also take approximately eight years to leave Alpha and probably spend another 2-3 in Beta.

 

It's important to balance realism with playability. Yes, it's weird that we were able to carry car parts and fuel cans around in our inventory in the mod, and that kind of breaks immersion a little bit, but so what? It's also pretty weird that everyone knows how to perform blood testing and transfusions, bandages fix gunshot wounds, we can run essentially infinitely with 50kg of gear bouncing off our backs, items appear on the ground that have absolutely no business being there, we reincarnate infinitely, no matter how many zombies we kill there's always more, etc. etc.

 

A true simulation would essentially be an unplayable mess and take forever to make, so we have to compromise a little bit. Dean has already said he's not trying to make a simulation so we really shouldn't argue about it.

Yes, a true simulation of all thing is not feasible, and perhaps not enjoyable. However simulation of certain things would be very easy to do, if they wanted to.

As well, things from the mod, like carrying car engines, were never necessary. Instead they could have simply switched it to smaller engine parts, instead of needing an entire new engine - absolutely no difference to the gameplay, but it satisfies the people asking why their character can carry hundreds of pounds of metal.

I don't want to see DayZ abandon realism and go to some kind of arcade-style gameplay. Example, defibrillators... I don't know what these do yet, but I hope they don't magically repair a major gunshot wound to the chest. Etc.

[floj 393]

I think the trouble with having levelling purely inventory based is that pvp clans etc have an unfair advantage - this will be exacerbated once storage options are added.

 

On spawning all you have to do is hook up with your squad and get re-equipped and you've gone from level 0 to level 100 in 30 minutes just like the people who currently server hop at airfields. Some form of skill progression based upon learning and repetition of actions solves this.

[WarAndRuin 19]

This thread is very resourceful, it's nice to see the community putting the effort in.

[babybasher 50]

TLDR

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

TLDR

 

Then why did you respond?

[The Mad Titan 29]

I like these ideas

[Karl87 17]

As a real life mechanic, I love this idea. I would love to see you have to actually diagnose the fault and not just have it say spark plugs "condition bad" I would also like to see you have to know where the components where on the engine and have to go through some steps to replace the part that have some bearing on real life. Making someone like me feel more important to the survival of others, and perhaps creating a comunity aspect where it would be benificial for people to have an in game trade (mechanic, pilot, medic, farmer, etc.)

[Steel Rat (DayZ) 35]

For those claiming that this game isn't a simulator, I just have to say you're wrong.

 

This is a "Sprinting through trees, lying about being friendly, find a way to kill yourself when you don't spawn in a place you like, pants stealing, can opener scavenger hunt, tuna eating, finding sticks in cars for splints and not off the nearest tree even though we're all lumberjacks, ladder challenge, server hopping, well water drinking, zombie dodging (when you actually see them), murder" simulator.

 

I'm just surprised this game is still in Alpha, it does all these things very well!

 

/sarcasm off

 

Ok, seriously though, great ideas... (mostly). I fir one would like this game to be very heavily simulator based. There are 10 bazzilion FPS deathmatch games out there for those that just want to virtually kill people. Those of us that want a more immersive experience always get shafted so that Little Joey 12 year old can log in and instantly kill the first thing his warped little mind finds.

 

In my opinion the way to stop 90% of the KoS madness is to make the game so complex they give up within 20 minutes or have to make a serious investment of time and resources to be effective at it. Let the people with IQs above the average yearly rainfall in Death Valley have a game to finally call their own.

 

All in all though, I'm having a blast watching all the people cry about things in a game that has been clearly advertised as being in Alpha. Just be glad you have the option to play.... whatever this is.