Possible solution to KOS, hear me out

[Ynneead 20]

Please look at the overall picture of this.

 

Hardcore players are bored. They've found everything, been everywhere and are now just shooting everything that moves out of boredom. And they WILL eventually get bored completely and leave for another game. 

 

Newcomers buy the game for $30 with the thinking that it's a survival/exploration game. That's what I thought. It turns out it's a deathmatch with survival gimmicks thrown in (water/food/health) but with a beautiful map at least worthy of exploring. Those players are not interested in fighting a deathmatch with others. However, if they're forced to play this deathmatch game (as it is now) they will soon leave too.

 

Do you see my point of view now?

Sooooo he never played the mod yet seems to know every veteran player and their views in the game. makes perfect sense!

Edited December 31, 2013 by Ynneead

[jan3sobieski 32]

i do not support this heart beat thing must have a heart of a dinosaur

 

And yet it's in the game. Put in there by Rocket himself. I wonder why he did that.

[StayAlive (DayZ) 169]

If people die from bandits over and over again, they are doing something wrong. Learn the rules and stay away from bandits. It's easy to survive if you don't run around in a yellow raincoat with a red bag over it!

Edited December 31, 2013 by StayAlive

[Ynneead 20]

And yet it's in the game. Put in there by Rocket himself. I wonder why he did that.

probably because he couldn't put in the bandit outfits anymore. Also I've never even know this loud heartbeat was a thing. probalby because i don't kos. But in reality if i wanted to play a game where i just kill zombies and don't have to worry about players i could play nazi zombies. The many many arcade zombie games on xbox. the last of us, left 4 dead, dead island, the list continues

[jan3sobieski 32]

Sooooo he never played the mod yet seems to know every veteran player and their views in the game. makes perfect sense!

 

Of course I don't know every veteran player and their views. Like I said, it's my point of view and my opinion. I never hid from that. Whenever I could I've watched many streams of DayZ and read through the forums here before I started playing myself. And in my opinion, it's unsustainable. 

[jan3sobieski 32]

probably because he couldn't put in the bandit outfits anymore. Also I've never even know this loud heartbeat was a thing. probalby because i don't kos. But in reality if i wanted to play a game where i just kill zombies and don't have to worry about players i could play nazi zombies. The many many arcade zombie games on xbox. the last of us, left 4 dead, dead island, the list continues

 

By the same chain of thought, if you wanted to play a game where all you do is shoot/kill other players, there are a ton of games out there that let you do this exclusively. So why do that here exclusively? Because those people who do that here is why this is being discussed in the first place!

Edited December 31, 2013 by jan3sobieski

[Ynneead 20]

I help people in game all the time maybe? i never kos probably? Kos IS a part of the game no matter how much you complain about it. If it's a deathmatch to you then your doing it wrong or in a military base.

 

plus if you never die then what would be the point

Edited December 31, 2013 by Ynneead

[jan3sobieski 32]

I help people in game all the time maybe? i never kos probably? Kos IS a part of the game no matter how much you complain about it. If it's a deathmatch to you then your doing it wrong or in a military base.

 

If you help someone once in a while and don't KoS then this wouldn't affect you at all. You're fine and even if you do KoS... sometimes, that's fine too, that's your choice. But what's going on most of the time along the coast is just mayhem. I have yet to meet anyone, ANYONE that didn't want to kill me. That's just ridiculous. Everyone here talking about choices and freedom and you play as you want and so forth. It seems to me that everyone is choosing to kill everyone else. Why? Because they're pretty much forced to. Or they're just really aholes. That's the problem.

[Ynneead 20]

If you help someone once in a while and don't KoS then this wouldn't affect you at all. You're fine and even if you do KoS... sometimes, that's fine too, that's your choice. But what's going on most of the time along the coast is just mayhem. I have yet to meet anyone, ANYONE that didn't want to kill me. That's just ridiculous. Everyone here talking about choices and freedom and you play as you want and so forth. It seems to me that everyone is choosing to kill everyone else. Why? Because they're pretty much forced to. Or they're just really aholes. That's the problem.

uh ya i would be seriously gimped by its effects. I wouldn't be able to loot bodies that are around (Even if a friend fell off a ladder and i want to pick up their important stuff ie saline SERIOUSLY DESTROYING SURVIVAL/COOPERATIVE ASPECTS).  I would have a gay message pop up telling me there's bandits in like every town that i will learn to ignore. God forbid i have to defend myself because i'll fucking die if i shoot someone. Oh and ill feel like a rapist is chasing me hearing his hard breath and his heart breathing from 500m away. And apparently i have to declare how i play 100% of the time the first time i play the game by picking survivor or bandit cutting the game in half makes sense.

 

...so please tell me again how it wouldn't effect me?

Edited December 31, 2013 by Ynneead

[Ynneead 20]

Seriously the gimping power of your post is so bad id rather just be a bandit and help people because as i said god forbid I'm defending myself and a magic ray of light comes down and smites me if i'm a survivor. I could loot peoples body's' fine when they die (not just when i kill them there's A LOT of ways to die in dayz). and i wouldn't have the heart beat thing as i usually don't kos. win/win/win/win

[jan3sobieski 32]

uh ya i would be seriously gimped by its effects. I wouldn't be able to loot bodies that are around (Even if a friend fell off a ladder and i want to pick up their important stuff ie saline SERIOUSLY DESTROYING SURVIVAL/COOPERATIVE ASPECTS).  I would have a gay message pop up telling me there's bandits in like every town that i will learn to ignore. God forbid i have to defend myself because i'll fucking die if i shoot someone. Oh and ill feel like a rapist is chasing me hearing his hard breath and his heart breathing from 500m away. And apparently i have to declare how i play 100% of the time the first time i play the game by picking survivor or bandit cutting the game in half makes sense.

 

...so please tell me again how it wouldn't effect me?

 

Forget the looting part. I said it was up for debate, Personally for me it wouldn't matter but I see your point that you should be able to loot someone like your buddy if he dies or something. But like i said, forget the looting part, How else would this affect you?

 

"a gay message pop up telling me there's bandits in like every town that i will learn to ignore." - First of all, watch your language, noone here is offending you. Second of all, you said it yourself, you'd ignore the message anyways. If it helps someone and doesn't help you, since you'd ignore it anyways, how exactly does this affect you? Because you'd get, as you say, a "gay message?"

 

Look at it this way. You're in Kamenka. No one around. Suddenly you see someone running towards you in the distance. You have no warning message (which would have gone off a while before you even noticed he was coming). The chances that someone doesn't KoS are a lot higher now. I'm not saying it identifies the guy as a survivor, he may still KoS or stab you after a 5 minute chat, but it just gives you this better than 1/10 odds that they're actually friendly, Same would go for them. They would see you as friendly also.

Edited December 31, 2013 by jan3sobieski

[Ynneead 20]

because i'm pretty sure every town will have at least one bandit in it. But its painfully obvious it's not up for debate so I'll leave you to it

[jan3sobieski 32]

because i'm pretty sure every town will have at least one bandit in it. But its painfully obvious it's not up for debate so I'll leave you to it

 

Actually I'm done. Just tired of the back and forth. If the general consensus is that everything is fine and dandy, so be it.

[Wolfguarde 108]

yeah, and that's why the game is going to die, it's the same shit as the mod, hell, there's even less stuff in the game than in the mod. And the mod's being around for 1 year, how much do you think dayz will last keeping the exact same mod's concept? The vanilla mod is already dying by itself.

 

Actually, the game will (eventually, likely after enjoying a few years of fame and revenue) die due to people like yourself who hate the game, and buy into it simply to complain about why.

A lot of the people buying into the alpha, I imagine, are veteran players who want to see what the game looks like with its own engine and a bit of polish. We understand that the finished product is a long way off. At the very least, save your outrage until the game's a bit closer to launch - and you have something legitimate to complain about.

 

The 500m warning would not work. The majority of KOS people are hiding in a bush with a sniper doing some awesome 1500m shots

Longest I've tried was 1km on a moving vehicle... it did not end well.

That being said, my aim is terrible even at 30-50m, so not really all that surprising.

[MystoganXIX 78]

If this game starts punishing people for killing others, I'm uninstalling it.

I bought it because I liked the idea of this game. Do whatever you can to survive.

 

It is a simulator game, so do you think a person who was trying to survive in real life after a zombie apocalypse would really start going insane after killing another person? In most cases, no. Its simply the instinct of self preservation. This person may try to kill me or this person may take nearby supplies that I need to live, so they must die in order for me to continue on. (There are no established laws or civilizations here, so no need to worry about "jail" and etc)

 

As far as written history will go back to, humans have killed eachother over trivial things. Now if we're killing eachother for survival, I'm sure the people who have survived for a significant amount of time in an apocalypse will kill anything that is a threat to them without hesitation and emotional distress. (Insanity)

 

Insanity may be a good feature that can be caused by sickness or eating items that a rational human being would not consume.

Edited January 1, 2014 by MystoganXIX

[alsmir 255]

Those are all terrible ideas.

 

Personally I can't wait till all the casuals and carebears finally leave DayZ and the forums so we can finally enjoy the game without idiots complaining every 5 s.

 

Next time you decide to buy the game, make some research (in case of DayZ play the mod) to find out how the game works instead of just buying it and asking for it to be changed right away. Guess what? DayZ isn't for casuals, deal with it.

[Spikér 136]

Please look at the overall picture of this.

 

Hardcore players are bored. They've found everything, been everywhere and are now just shooting everything that moves out of boredom. And they WILL eventually get bored completely and leave for another game. 

 

Newcomers buy the game for $30 with the thinking that it's a survival/exploration game. That's what I thought. It turns out it's a deathmatch with survival gimmicks thrown in (water/food/health) but with a beautiful map at least worthy of exploring. Those players are not interested in fighting a deathmatch with others. However, if they're forced to play this deathmatch game (as it is now) they will soon leave too.

 

Do you see my point of view now?

 

Hardcore players are bored? Wow, thanks for telling me how i feel about this game as i must have been confused, as i thought i loved the SA and STILL play the mod!

 

Quick tip, DO NO SPEAK FOR PLAYERS WHICH YOU NO NOTHING ABOUT!

 

Like you said, this is the problem.

New player buys the game with no fucking clue about it, then decided that he is in a better place to suggest MAJOR game play changes than the people who HAVE played it for a long time.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Spikér

[Bakercompany86 347]

*snip*

 

 

*sigh*

 

I've got three words for this karma system idea.

 

no.

 

No.

 

NO!

[kazeen 15]

I do not think KOS is the issue. I think the problem is that people think being a bandit means you shoot everything you see.

 

To me being a bandit means i go with my group of other bandits and if we see people that have some gear we secure and rob them.

If they comply we take what we want and send them on their way. If they do not comply then we kill them. 

 

It is up to the people playing to decide how they want to play it though. The game gives you Free Will. 

[Cinnabuns 45]

But it's NOT a choice anymore, Roughly 90% or more of encounters are kos. How is this a choice?

 

Har.  Not a choice?  How is it not a choice?  The term is K (kill) O (on) S (sight).  Your choice is... don't be seen in the first place?

 

Something else you keep repeating that I dont' understand.  Can you clarify this statement you keep repeating, please.

 

"Besides, if they're so hardcore why are they so afraid of a 500m warning? Something like this is ALREADY IN THE GAME,"

 

Something like a 500m warning is already in the game?  What is that?  If so I must have missed it.  Nor would I ever want it.

 

You know how to determine if there is someone around you in game?  Don't blindly run around wishing the game would tell you things that you're not competent at.  Check your zones, watch your six, be situationally aware.  If you're not currently which it appears is the case, then over time you will become accomplished at it.  You'll improve and you'll understand why many of things that you've suggested in your original post are non-issues and fairly immature and silly.

 

When you meet someone out in the world, do you know them?  Do you know anything about them?  No, you don't.  You can choose to engage in converstation with them or not.  They could be a wolf in sheeps clothing and frequently are.  There is trepidation in you when you engage them and rightly there should be.

 

If things are known prior to engaging with someone, this totally cripples a large aspect of the immersive, emergent gameplay that is DayZ.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Cinnabuns

[doctorbadsign 645]

 

 

• If I'm playing a survivor and kill another survivor, my karma (or conscience, or whatever) goes down eventually killing me. (like if I kill 3-4 survivors)

 

No. How does this have any basis in reality? Dying because you have killed someone? Fuck that. How does it distinguish between self defence/aggression anyway?

 

 

 

• If I'm playing a bandit, I don't have karma BUT, whenever a survivor comes within, I dunno 500m radius of me, they'll get a warning, a message that "bandits are roaming the area." This would give survivors a chance to run the hell away and go somewhere else.

 

So you're basically saying the game should hold the hands of people who are shit at it? Again, fuck that. If you're good at the game you'll know whether bandits are roaming the area or not. If you don't then you shouldn't get any help with the situation, you should fight or die like a man.

 

There doesn't need to be a karma system of any kind. But frankly your suggestion is ridiculous.

[Cinnabuns 45]

Look at it this way. You're in Kamenka. No one around. Suddenly you see someone running towards you in the distance. You have no warning message (which would have gone off a while before you even noticed he was coming). The chances that someone doesn't KoS are a lot higher now. I'm not saying it identifies the guy as a survivor, he may still KoS or stab you after a 5 minute chat, but it just gives you this better than 1/10 odds that they're actually friendly, Same would go for them. They would see you as friendly also.

 

This is fairly naive.  Play the game a while and you will learn distinctive behaviors of people that KOS.

 

If you "suddenly see someone running towards you", lets think about that.  Would you as a survivor do this?  I'm going to say NO.  I certainly would not.  Running up to someone out of the blue without communicating from a distance what their intentions are is fool hardy beginner/KOS behavior and you're just asking to get shot.

 

If they're running up armed, you can run if you don't have a gun, you can tell them to stop or you'll shoot if you do have a gun, you can run and  pull out your melee and then try and lose them between buildings and get behind them, or you can just sprint for 5min and desync your client and crash out (unfortunate alpha behavior currently).

 

Make a list of the things you would do, as a survivor, to approach different situations.

Make a list of the things you would do, as a bandit, to approach different situations.

 

This alone will give you a massive advantage and help you better identify threats and friendlies.  It isn't foolproof in-game nor in real life.  It will help though.

[FrosTT 4]

I like the idea of the selection of bandit or survivor. I dont like the restrictions of the survivor however. You should be able to loot freely. The best suggestion to me was the warning of nearby bandits. The range should be decreased to about 300 meters or so. Great idea.

[doctorbadsign 645]

I like the idea of the selection of bandit or survivor. I dont like the restrictions of the survivor however. You should be able to loot freely. The best suggestion to me was the warning of nearby bandits. The range should be decreased to about 300 meters or so. Great idea.

 

Really? How is that a great idea?

 

I don't understand. If you're in the harsh world of the apocalypse, do you have some magical sixth sense that goes 'watch out dude there is bad guys around'? No you don't. What you have to do is get to a safe vantage point and observe for as long as it takes to ascertain whether someone is in the area. If you can't bring yourself to do this in the game, you deserve to die, over and over again until you learn.

 

DayZ is not, nor should it ever be a game that holds a players hand. You just need to get better at it.

 

Jeez...

[Furtherado 100]

Pretty much a terrible idea, and this is coming from a friendly player who shoots as a last resort (unfortunately "last resorts" are very often the only kind of resort in the game). I don`t want my encounters to feel safe, if i have a gun, i`ll use that leverage by saying to the person that if they do not comply to what i say i will shoot. You have to be strict and not seem like some naive guy whos just asking for it. Generally, as you play more, and decide you wanna try to team up with a random, you can sometimes tell if someone is going to backstab you or not.

 

As a general rule however, never team up with a random if you value your life, and also if you have anger issues, some of the traps the "pro" bandit set up include gaining your trust over several hours. 

 

Indicators that can show if its worthwhile to team up are: how much are they talking to you? what are they talking to you about? in which manner are they speaking (do they seem tense, relaxed)?  do they frequently ask you to do things that will expose you? do they seem impatient to get somewhere? do they say "wait" alot? (possibly trying to get a friend over to shoot you over TS.)  Hard to explain, but it can save you from the more amateur killers or just general trolls who think you are stupid. 

 

 

Generally if you are able to strike up a friendly conversation, then theres less of a chance theyll kill you, there are alot of exceptions though, again. I dont reccomend befriending a random under any circumstances if you have high-end gear. 

 

Go and join a clan if you want more reliable teammate, or ask someone from RL to join you.. 

 

By making this aspect of the game too "arcadey" it wouldnt be the great game it is, where you constantly have to think and take life and death choices at a moments notice. If you want to play MMOs where teamwork is integral there are several. 

Edited January 1, 2014 by Furtherado