Possible solution to KOS, hear me out

[Spikér 136]

I'm afraid this game is going to die quickly because casuals will see no point in playing and the hardcore players, the "bandits" that shoot everything on sight will eventually run out of fresh meat and only hunt each other. And eventually they'll get bored of it and quit too. If all you want is to kill other players you should go play other games more suited for this than this one. 

 

I hear the other side of the story too though. I get the point. It's a simulator game, you should have free will whether you want to play friendly or not. I don't know if this is possible but wouldn't it be just easier to have someone "declare" at the character creation screen whether or not you will play a survivor or a bandit? 

 

Then: 

• If I'm playing a survivor and kill another survivor, my karma (or conscience, or whatever) goes down eventually killing me. (like if I kill 3-4 survivors)
• If I'm playing a survivor and kill a bandit my karma stays the same (or if I have killed a survivor by a mistake, killing a bunch of bandits would slowly, VERY slowly grow my karma back, sort of as redemption)
• If I'm playing a bandit, I don't have karma BUT, whenever a survivor comes within, I dunno 500m radius of me, they'll get a warning, a message that "bandits are roaming the area." This would give survivors a chance to run the hell away and go somewhere else.
• If I'm playing a bandit and enter an area where there are other bandits or survivors, I don't get that same warning. No change there from current game.
• Also, and this is tricky (but necessary), survivors would not be able to loot anyone, other survivors or bandits. They would only be able to find loot or take loot that was given/dropped for them from other survivors (not bandits). This would be to prevent "false" survivors. Ones that choose to play as a survivor yet go on a rampage to kill everyone. (Kill a couple survivors then mitigate karma by killing bandits) [edit] this might not be necessary as the karma system would be enough to discourage killing more than, let's say 4 survivors, however, there would have to be a way to make sure "false" survivors don't go on a rampage killing bandits with a 500m warning advantage. Honestly though, I'm for the original idea. I don't care about looting others, I'm a survivor, I like to find things on my own and share with others if they need my help.

 

The biggest issue in my opinion is that when an encounter happens (when 2 ppl run into each other) there is really not a lot of time for decisions, talking or trying to figure out if the other one is friendly or not. That's why most ppl just kos. This system would eliminate the need to guess. Also, bandits would most likely stay near the coastal, military, airstrip areas. If you're a survivor and want to risk getting better weapons and such and want to go there, you do so at your own risk. [edit] I should edit this, the system wouldn't completely eliminate guessing but it would help

 

A tiny piece of this is somehow already implemented, it just doesn't work since to hear the bandit's heartbeat you really have to get close to him which by that time is too late anyways. I think the range is like 10-20m. That's completely useless.

 

I don't see how it would take away from the game at all. Bandits can still hunt their prey it's just that this way the prey will know it's being hunted. Wouldn't that give bandits a bigger adrenaline rush and sense of accomplishment knowing they got to someone who already knew they were coming?

 

What do you think?

 

So, out of curiosity, how long have you played the DayZ mod for? That has had KoS since it came out and was a vital part of the game. Now here we are, the SA only being JUST released and some scrub is already claiming it is going to die if no one sorts the KoS out? Pfft... dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[Nanoha 37]

I don't want to see stupid systems but I do want to see something that breaks down barriers between cooperation. I must confess I haven't once cooperated with a player in DayZ (mod and standalone) whom I didn't know from outside of the game which I think is quite sad. I generally just leave people alone, fight back if attacked or kill if threatened.

If you think of mmos etc (this game is actually tagged as massive multiplayer on Steam..), then you tend to group up with strangers. Even in Ultima Online (where you could freely kill people and take all their stuff), people grouped up with strangers and so on. Unfortunately in DayZ kill on sight or avoiding other players is the only option, it really is a tragic system.

I want to be able to kill anyone I want but I also want to get along with people, do things that I can't do alone etc. We need reasons for cooperation and we need ways to break down the barriers that prevent people interacting. Rocket appears to want the same which is good. A system that gave you some indication of whether you are at risk or relatively safe would be nice. In real life I can look at people and tell if they look trust worthy or not - this should be reflected in game. Of course, they could look wonderful then stab you in the back but hey, same in real life so that's good.

If you come across someone who's murdered 50 people, with a necklace of ears around their neck your gonna think "I should probably avoid this person", your character in game could have vague thoughts about people they look at too like the "I feel hungry" messages.

Hardcore and teamwork/cooperation are not mutually exclusive.

[Ynneead 20]

jan3sobieski, on 30 Dec 2013 - 3:37 PM, said:
 

I'm afraid this game is going to die quickly because casuals will see no point in playing and the hardcore players, the "bandits" that shoot everything on sight will eventually run out of fresh meat and only hunt each other. And eventually they'll get bored of it and quit too. If all you want is to kill other players you should go play other games more suited for this than this one. 

 

-mod had KoS still alive and healthy

 

I hear the other side of the story too though. I get the point. It's a simulator game, you should have free will whether you want to play friendly or not. I don't know if this is possible but wouldn't it be just easier to have someone "declare" at the character creation screen whether or not you will play a survivor or a bandit? 

 

-wouldn't be a problem for me if voip in stand alone went farther than 8m ( i want mod distance :C)

Then: 

• If I'm playing a survivor and kill another survivor, my karma (or conscience, or whatever) goes down eventually killing me. (like if I kill 3-4 survivor

-they had a bandit/hero thing going on in the mod not sure if can happen in the stand alone  considering all the clothing options...... Why would you die for killing someone makes no sense

• If I'm playing a survivor and kill a bandit my karma stays the same (or if I have killed a survivor by a mistake, killing a bunch of bandits would slowly, VERY slowly grow my karma back, sort of as redemption)

-again had bandit/hero thing in mod not sure if implementable here do to clothes.. Also dying for killing someone is just plain stupid

• If I'm playing a bandit, I don't have karma BUT, whenever a survivor comes within, I dunno 500m radius of me, they'll get a warning, a message that "bandits are roaming the area." This would give survivors a chance to run the hell away and go somewhere else.

 -This makes no sense to me at all... are all survives spiderman now and can sense danger?This isn't halo there is no radar

• If I'm playing a bandit and enter an area where there are other bandits or survivors, I don't get that same warning. No change there from current game.

-No option on this. This is how the game should be for everyone

• Also, and this is tricky (but necessary), survivors would not be able to loot anyone, other survivors or bandits. They would only be able to find loot or take loot that was given/dropped for them from other survivors (not bandits). This would be to prevent "false" survivors. Ones that choose to play as a survivor yet go on a rampage to kill everyone. (Kill a couple survivors then mitigate karma by killing bandits) [edit] this might not be necessary as the karma system would be enough to discourage killing more than, let's say 4 survivors, however, there would have to be a way to make sure "false" survivors don't go on a rampage killing bandits with a 500m warning advantage. Honestly though, I'm for the original idea. I don't care about looting others, I'm a survivor, I like to find things on my own and share with others if they need my help.

-This idea is utterly retarded. So your saying that my character doesn't have the intelligence to use his hands on a dead and unresisting body's' to get their pockets/backpack open? Are you forgetting that this is somewhat trying to simulate reality(with exceptions like fall damage and a few other things)

 

The biggest issue in my opinion is that when an encounter happens (when 2 ppl run into each other) there is really not a lot of time for decisions, talking or trying to figure out if the other one is friendly or not. That's why most ppl just kos. This system would eliminate the need to guess. Also, bandits would most likely stay near the coastal, military, airstrip areas. If you're a survivor and want to risk getting better weapons and such and want to go there, you do so at your own risk. [edit] I should edit this, the system wouldn't completely eliminate guessing but it would help

 

-Well how would you feel if if you and a random person where both holding guns to each others heads?

 

A tiny piece of this is somehow already implemented, it just doesn't work since to hear the bandit's heartbeat you really have to get close to him which by that time is too late anyways. I think the range is like 10-20m. That's completely useless.

 

-20m is pretty far must have a really really loud heartbeat

 

I don't see how it would take away from the game at all. Bandits can still hunt their prey it's just that this way the prey will know it's being hunted. Wouldn't that give bandits a bigger adrenaline rush and sense of accomplishment knowing they got to someone who already knew they were coming?

 

-Its a survival simulator not red vs blue

What do you think?

 

-Terrible terrible ideas posted your entire post with comments so you can\t use that all too convenient YOU DIDN'T READ IT ALL! This isn't a team oriented game. It IS a survival simulator. How you choose to survive is up to the players be it sneaking around towns scouting it out or killing other players for their loot

 

-only one i kinda want back is the bandit/hero thing but i have no idea how they would implement it

 

-Also the hipocracy! You say it should be real and taping knives to bats should be in but isn't but yet you adamantly support an invisible omnipotent force that kills you if you kill someone. All my wut right here!

 

-My comments in bold with -

Edited December 31, 2013 by Ynneead

[jan3sobieski 32]

 

/edit

also those warning messages..."bandits are roaming the area" how damn arcade do you want this game to be?!

want "there is a sniper watching you" or "there is a guy with an axe around the corner" too??

 

No, I don't. Just one message that will give me a better idea whether the approaching player might possibly be friendly to engage in conversation instead of both of us shooting each other on sight.

[Ynneead 20]

You calling this a gamble is a bit off. I wouldn't call it that anymore if more than 90% of players kos. You can study them from a distance all you want, your judgement in 90% of the cases is "I should kill him before he kills me first." Don't even bother telling me this is not the case.

 

not sure if uneducated or just stupid. 90%is STILL a gamble

[chris_heyward 47]

The 500m warning would not work. The majority of KOS people are hiding in a bush with a sniper doing some awesome 1500m shots

[Ynneead 20]

Let me guess, you didn't even read my whole post. Doesn't matter.

 

Why don't we just put this whole KoS thing up for a vote within this forum community and see where we end up. Judging by the responses in this thread, the vote would be in favor of leaving things the way they are so no harm done, right?

 

[Edit] Oh, look! Here's one! http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/160525-how-to-authentically-strike-the-right-balance-of-pvp-in-dayz-sa/

I like how you post a poll that doesn't support even your idea by a long shot. Although i do support the harsher environment ie more zombies. possibly different types of zombies(not really sure). Base building requires multiple people but not sure if rocket will put in epoch stuff. Also vehicles maintenance will require multiple people (as items degrade now so will tires and engines by theory).

[jan3sobieski 32]

not sure if uneducated or just stupid. 90%is STILL a gamble

 

Please be careful with words, no one here is offending you so why are you? What I meant by this is that most people when hearing the word "gamble" think more along the lines of a 50/50 chance at success. A 1 in 10 chance of success is not much of a gamble, it's a pretty sure way to lose, Unless you're very, very lucky. You used this word in a sentence implying that it's a fair gamble. It's not.

[broguenz 333]

The 500m warning would not work. The majority of KOS people are hiding in a bush with a sniper doing some awesome 1500m shots

 

 

Doubt it. Less than 200m would be closer to a fact.

 

bandit alarm is just sirry

[hard2say 27]

DayZ is not for Carebears and these "suggestions" suck fat monkey nut.

[quobble 175]

No, I don't. Just one message that will give me a better idea whether the approaching player might possibly be friendly to engage in conversation instead of both of us shooting each other on sight.

what if the victim moves, and the bandit is camping? the message would give away position and location.

 

TRASH

[jan3sobieski 32]

Base building requires multiple people but not sure if rocket will put in epoch stuff. Also vehicles maintenance will require multiple people (as items degrade now so will tires and engines by theory).

 

All good ideas that will require cooperation between players. And THAT will require a rethinking of the KoS strategy that everyone is employing right now. That's my point. All of you guys saying "oh, everything is fine the way it is." "Leave it alone. It's perfect now." BS. It's not. This poll is proving this to you.

[Ynneead 20]

Please be careful with words, no one here is offending you so why are you? What I meant by this is that most people when hearing the word "gamble" think more along the lines of a 50/50 chance at success. A 1 in 10 chance of success is not much of a gamble, it's a pretty sure way to lose, Unless you're very, very lucky. You used this word in a sentence implying that it's a fair gamble. It's not.

v. gam·bled, gam·bling, gam·bles

v.intr.

1.

a. To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.

b. To play a game of chance for stakes.

2. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.

3. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.

v.tr.

1. To put up as a stake in gambling; wager.

2. To expose to hazard; risk: gambled their lives in a dangerous rescue mission.

n.

1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.

2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

 

nothing about being fair

Edited December 31, 2013 by Ynneead

[jan3sobieski 32]

DayZ is not for Carebears and these "suggestions" suck fat monkey nut.

 

Thank you for a detailed explanation of your opinion

[jan3sobieski 32]

 

v. gam·bled, gam·bling, gam·bles

v.intr.

1.

a. To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.

b. To play a game of chance for stakes.

2. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.

3. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.

v.tr.

1. To put up as a stake in gambling; wager.

2. To expose to hazard; risk: gambled their lives in a dangerous rescue mission.

n.

1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.

2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

 

 

Wow! You can copy and paste from google! Good job, gold star!

 

You're grabbing at straws here.

[jan3sobieski 32]

what if the victim moves, and the bandit is camping? the message would give away position and location.

 

TRASH

 

How exactly would it give away the position? It's an AREA of 500m, Not 500m in front of you. Did you even read what I wrote?

[Ynneead 20]

All good ideas that will require cooperation between players. And THAT will require a rethinking of the KoS strategy that everyone is employing right now. That's my point. All of you guys saying "oh, everything is fine the way it is." "Leave it alone. It's perfect now." BS. It's not. This poll is proving this to you.

I don't think you've ever played the mod by that statement...... People saying leave it the way it is usually don't mean: keep it alpha. pretty sure they mean keep it on the path relative of the mod which does include vehicles and base building (but the mod did not have item degradation as far as i know  without being shot so they will probably need to have upkeep

[chris_heyward 47]

Doubt it. Less than 200m would be closer to a fact.

 

bandit alarm is just sirry

With a VSS yes, but I have been shot multiple times from silly distances with a CheyTac and KSVK

[Ynneead 20]

How exactly would it give away the position? It's an AREA of 500m, Not 500m in front of you. Did you even read what I wrote?

Because most people aren't spiderman and have super human sense that can detect danger from 500m (a little under half a mile) away. Again not halo no radars/detectors

Edited December 31, 2013 by Ynneead

[Ynneead 20]

With a VSS yes, but I have been shot multiple times from silly distances with a CheyTac and KSVK

oh god this!

[Ynneead 20]

Wow! You can copy and paste from google! Good job, gold star!

 

You're grabbing at straws here.

again nothing about being fair. nothing about 50/50.

 

 

...Also do defend my statement even more people play blackjack all the time. The chances of winning with one deck without house rules is even less than 1/13. Substantially  less then your 90% kos chance

Edited December 31, 2013 by Ynneead

[DropBearChick 1217]

 

Also rocket has explained many times before he is doing nothing to take away the freedom for players to kill whoever they want.

Nothing eh? We'll not affecting freedom but he is discouraging it by doing the raise lower gun, hands up, wave, handcuff and so on to try to encourage bandits to be honourable and hold people up instead of taking the easy way out and kosing

 

[jan3sobieski 32]

So, out of curiosity, how long have you played the DayZ mod for? That has had KoS since it came out and was a vital part of the game. Now here we are, the SA only being JUST released and some scrub is already claiming it is going to die if no one sorts the KoS out? Pfft... dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

Please look at the overall picture of this.

 

Hardcore players are bored. They've found everything, been everywhere and are now just shooting everything that moves out of boredom. And they WILL eventually get bored completely and leave for another game. 

 

Newcomers buy the game for $30 with the thinking that it's a survival/exploration game. That's what I thought. It turns out it's a deathmatch with survival gimmicks thrown in (water/food/health) but with a beautiful map at least worthy of exploring. Those players are not interested in fighting a deathmatch with others. However, if they're forced to play this deathmatch game (as it is now) they will soon leave too.

 

Do you see my point of view now?

[jan3sobieski 32]

Because most people aren't spiderman and have super human sense that can detect danger from 500m (a little under half a mile) away. Again not halo no radars/detectors

 

Most people aren't spiderman either but can somehow hear erratic heartbeat of a bandit when they're close to them.

[Ynneead 20]

Most people aren't spiderman either but can somehow hear erratic heartbeat of a bandit when they're close to them.

i do not support this heart beat thing must have a heart of a dinosaur