Why are people complaining about KOS like it's a feature issue?

[inexorable 26]

In real life there is no such thing as KoS in fact, and rocket said that he wanted to reduce this as much as possible (example: damage system).

You don't go and kill someone just for fun, except if you have a mental disorder, humans beings only kills when they absolutely need to, or when they are extremely angry.

 

I'm not against banditism, you can force someone to give his blood, or to give his stuff, you can kill someone to have his nice M4, because you need it, but you don't kill a fresh spawned player that has absolutely nothing just for fun.

 

Things were a lot different before Cod-kiddies started playing the game.

 

People that plays Dayz just to KoS, that are not even interested in friendly experiences, or realistic bandit experiences just didn't get what DayZ is about and should uninstall

 

PS: for those who says "don't tell me how to play"

 

You are telling everyone how to play by doing KoS, you can't play friendly anymore with most of people because they're afraid that you might kill them, so yeah, you're the ones forcing other to play as you want.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Inexorable

[Bruce of Wayne 81]

Well some killing on sight is encouraged by others killing on sight. Yesterday a guy with a shovel tried to kill me as a walked around, so I killed him with an axe. What did I ever do to him? Then, not giving up I talked to someone else when I was behind him and would have likely been able to kill him and steal his m4. I asked him to point me to the hospital,as I was sick, and it was right across the street. Then, he said that he thought he had something for me(as I was sick). I figured it was a trap, but what if it was true? This guy hadn't shot me when I talked to him, and besides I did not want to die to that rotten fruit. I walked to him and am greeted this time with "Dop al your stuff or I'll shoot you in the face." Of course. So I hit him with an axe and got killed. Goes to show you cannot trust anyone, so you can expect a bit more killing from me.

[Guest]

It's part of DayZ and always will be. I like to sometimes KOS, or sometimes communicate before I kill depending on how I feel. If you want to run around in the woods making bases than there is a game called Minecraft available on Xbox Live Arcade. Just make sure you ask permission from your parents before you subscribe!

 

 

Peace out.

 

 

Says the guy complaining about people complaining

[Xianyu 820]

The learning curve for this game is MUCH higher than call of duty. Extreme survival DEFINITELY includes killing people for any supplies. Your attempt at dismissing the people who wish to play this sandbox game differently and just as legitimately as you just comes across as a tired whine. It's people like you whose tears taste so sweet and encourage people to deathmatch. You have encouraged me to log on and shoot a few bambis and I wasn't even going to play today.

Hey, you kill me for my beans, or my gun? That's cool. That's DayZ.

 

But if you're gunning down new spawns on the coast, or just killing people 'because it's fun', then you're just a KOS CoD kiddie and should probably go play something else.

[inexorable 26]

Says the guy complaining about people complaining

 

The funny part is the "ask permission from your parents before you subscribe!"

 

since players doing KoS are known to be CoD kids that discovered DayZ on Youtube

[psylence 6]

In real life there is no such thing as KoS in fact, and rocket said that he wanted to reduce this as much as possible (example: damage system).

You don't go and kill someone just for fun, except if you have a mental disorder, humans beings only kills when they absolutely need to, or when they are extremely angry.

To all the people who complain that KoS is unrealistic...

 

So if you had a rifle on you, walked into a building with a stranger while there is a zombie apocalypse going on, and there happens to be a distressed person you don't know with a loaded weapon in front of you, you really expect to say "Hey wanna team up?! :)"

 

I'm sorry, but you would not live to tell your tale.  If two armed people encountered each other face to face in a real "apocalypse", they would both be thinking how to eliminate the immediate threat to their wellbeing, and that would be to put the sights on the other guy with the gun and squeeze the trigger.  

Edited December 20, 2013 by Psylence

[eleventhavenue 204]

To all the people who complain that KoS is unrealistic...

 

So if you had a rifle on you, walked into a building with a stranger while there is a zombie apocalypse going on, and there happens to be a distressed person you don't know with a loaded weapon in front of you, you really expect to say "Hey wanna team up?! :)"

 

I'm sorry, but you would not live to tell your tale.  If two armed people encountered each other face to face in a real "apocalypse", they would both be thinking how to eliminate the immediate threat to their wellbeing, and that would be to put the sights on the other guy with the gun and squeeze the trigger.  

 

I do not believe you. You sure seem to be very sure about what you are saying. But I'm sure it's very evident to you that other people have another opinion on what happens when two armed people meet eachother in a zombie apocalypse. After all, if it was completely obvious that everyone would simply shoot each other, I do not think this discussion would exist.

Additionally, I don't understand what this has to do with what I think is the main question we all should try to answer; What is it that actually causes rampant KOS'ing? I think that there for ever will be KOS in DayZ, but I think we need to do something to at the very least get something out of not shooting each other. I think item degradation is a good thing for that, I do believe it reduces the KOS'ing for items, but it doesn't solve the big problem IMO; The Shooting for ´´fun´´, ´´lulz´´, ´´score´´, or ´´UMG U IZ KERBER GO PLE HALO KITEH´´, and I am pretty sure that no real person would kill for that reason, not even lunatics, and so, I think things should be done to discourage (altough softly, not in a hard-limiting way) that kind of behavior.

[inexorable 26]

To all the people who complain that KoS is unrealistic...

 

So if you had a rifle on you, walked into a building with a stranger while there is a zombie apocalypse going on, and there happens to be a distressed person you don't know with a loaded weapon in front of you, you really expect to say "Hey wanna team up?! :)"

 

I'm sorry, but you would not live to tell your tale.  If two armed people encountered each other face to face in a real "apocalypse", they would both be thinking how to eliminate the immediate threat to their wellbeing, and that would be to put the sights on the other guy with the gun and squeeze the trigger.  

 

 

 

I agree with you, I talked about KoS with unarmed player especially

btw, If you're scavenging a building and find a survivor, you might kill him, but let's say you saw a survivor in a building through a window, would you engage a fight and risk to die for most likely nothing, or would you just leave without being seen ?

[kottton 5]

"pointless" KOS is not pointless. There's nothing better than knowing people like Mercules are fresh spawning on the coast and alt-tabbing to spend their entire day posting about it on the forum. 

 

Those kind of tears taste so, so sweet :)

 

Im actually planning on going out of my way to kos the fresh spawn just for this reason.  The ultimate goal is to have 10 threads on page 1 of people QQ'ing that they died and lost their flashlight and battery, and had to wait 30 seconds to spawn again. 

[doctorbadsign 645]

I think there are different kinds of KOS, so people should be clear when they are talking about it.

 

The first kind is self preservation/defence. This is perfectly understandable in my view. You walk into a room and see an armed player before they see you, you have a split second to make the decision and ask yourself 'if I don't shoot now, will (s)he shoot me as soon as (s)he seems me?'. Given that a high percentage of players would shoot you upon seeing you, killing someone on sight in such a scenario is rational and understandable. 

 

The second kind is pretty much for the lolz. This is less understandable to me. But is certainly fed by people's reactions. Any kind of distressed/angry response is giving the killer what they want. Basically nothing can be done to stop people from doing this. The only thing you can change is your response. When someone kills you as an unarmed player you have lost very little, and they have gained very little---there is no real need to go super mega apeshit over it.

 

The first kind of KOS is endemic, but it doesn't have to be. Every single player who doesn't like KOS either goes lone wolf, plays with a few trusted people, or starts to KOS themselves as a reaction. Thus KOS grows and grows. However there are enough people who would be friendly out there, they just don't play that way because of KOS. I know it's meta-gaming and some people don't like that, but friendlies could start groups and communities, we can now add other friendlies on Steam and play with them. Once people who have lost trust in other players start seeing that trust restored by groups of friendlies KOS might start to decline, or at least those who KOS because of KOS will think twice. That's what I think anyway.

[psylence 6]

I agree with you, I talked about KoS with unarmed player especially

btw, If you're scavenging a building and find a survivor, you might kill him, but let's say you saw a survivor in a building through a window, would you engage a fight and risk to die for most likely nothing, or would you just leave without being seen ?

See that's where "KoS" isn't being defined well.

 

When I hear most people complain about "KoS" they're saying "I walked into the fire station and I said I was friendly but he shot me!" if they had their gun out and didn't instantly turn around and put it away they should expect to be killed.  And even if they did go to that extent to be passive, they'll probably get popped for their can opener by most people.

 

And the people who complain about being killed "trying to get off the shore". I have probably 250+ hours in the mod, and I think 20 in the SA, I've never been killed on the shore unless it was a hacker.  People expect to run down the street and run on top of hills and skyline themselves and expect to not get sniped, that's just silly.  Fortunately there WILL be consequences to just opening up on every person you see through a window just for fun when more zombies are added.  But like I said, personally I don't just get randomly shot at very much unless I'm in a VERY obvious place.  People want realism, why not treat how you move through villages and forests realistically?  If you really think running down the road standing up in a zombie apocalypse would be right course of action, then you'll probably die!  That's how simple the rules are in this game.

[ritual 1]

I've never been randomly shot on the coast. If I spawn in and see another fresh spawn, I'll usually try to beat him to death with my fists though. I'd rather not have him going after the same loot as me, especially on the coast which is usually picked clean

[Homiak 21]

Extreme survival?  what against?  zombies that cant catch you? Hunger? Thirst?

 

All these are easy to survive against..  Facts are without other players as a threat in Dayz the game would have died ages ago.

 

If you need a Pve experience zombie game theres many out there without pvp and kos.

 

Why does it feel that every game i like, Carebears come along and turn it into a lovefest/lets all kiss and make up clusterfuck mankini game?

 

Leave Dayz as it is, and how Rocket intended in the beginning.

 

The real reason some dont like the kos mentality is because they suck at surviving against anything other than dumb computer oponents or scripted easy to manage scenarios.

 

A real man can survive against zombies, hunger, disease, thirst  AND KOS PLAYERS!

 

 

Not so fast right there.

 

1) I beleive zombies should be able to catch you and food should much harder to find - now it's too easy.

2) Other players always will be a threat.

3) I don't need PvE experience, but let's face it - DayZ sucks as a deathmatch game.

4) Don't know... I usually kill other people if they pose a threat to me or if I need to kill them. No hugs from me.

5) IIRC Rocket don't like DayZ turning into deathmatch and, therefore, he even comes with gear damage mechanics and other. What a surprise!

6) Not me  - I can die to hackers but very rare to other players. I usually try to make "clean" kills if I have to.

7) That's what I do. KoS players usually die a lot. I am surviving, KoS mentality players are usually lie rotting.

[slarticus 0]

I'm just gonna post what I said in the too many vets thread as it applies here too.

 

 I think the main issue is the shoot on sight mentality that nearly all vets have. They have played the mod and its spin offs and that is all they are about shoot first before they shoot you.  

 

But in this version it should be more about surviving and testing the game which is nigh on impossible when as soon as some people get a gun they think the point then is to shoot anything that they see. This includes fresh spawns that have no weapons at all, anyone they meet that they think could be a threat, or just anything that moves as that is the mentality of most players. I think the steps Rocket has taken to prevent the shoot first loot after doesn't go far enough to discourage this sort of behavior. Most people who are shooting have all the gear they need so care nothing for damaging any loot they may get of a player.  This was obvious from watching people play the mod as it got to the point where very few even bothered to loot corpses just shot and moved on.  

 

A humanity system does not seem the way forward without significant penalties for the bandits types as they wear their banditry as a badge of pride.  Mods like Overwatch and Breaking point turned what is supposed to be a survival horror game into a new variation of cod/bf where pvp is the main if not only focus.  That said there is no point to survival in this game other than to gear up and kill other players and herein lies the fundamental issue with the concept of survival horror on a multi-player platform. It does not work as it is intended. There is no other end game but to shoot people and therefore becomes a game of survive the players not the zombies.

 

As a zombie survival game I think this game is limited, however it has much potential as a multi-player pvp game with a zombie flavouring. I know the number of zombies is turned down at the moment for testing and load performance but unless they add hundreds more for each town I don't think it will make that much difference.  The zombies need to be much more of a threat than the players to make it a multi-player survival game where it makes sense to team up with people to defend yourselves from the hoards. That is the game I would like to play...

 

Imagine meeting a player who says 'hey over here take this gun and food, now help us protect this building from the next wave of zombies'  Ensue massive shoot out with zombie hoard just about surviving after running out of ammo and finishing the last few off with axes, bats, chainsaws, shovels.  'Phew now we need to find some more ammo and food before we meet the next hoard'

 

I will however add to this that pvp is the most fun point of multi=player games and this game needs it but not at the cost of the ethos of surviving against a zombie infection. I don't want a PVE experince I want DayZ as it is but with a real zombie threat. I haven't been scared of zombies since i first played the mod back when it was first released. Shouldn't the zombies be what I am scared of not every player i meet?  Yes be scared of other groups of armed players but not shoot on sight anyone you come across.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Slart

[EagleyezZ 0]

Killing others is a big part of the game and shouldn't be removed. I am a bandit since it came out. Without bandits this game would be boring and wouldn't have a challenge. 

[Perrywinkle 6]

I don't have a problem with KoS. The environment needs to become more deadly and it will happen less. If characters are server locked and a community is built, it will happen less. 

 

It will always be a part of DayZ though... It's what makes the game so great. 

[slarticus 0]

but that is my point the challenge of the game should be surviving against the zombies by teaming up. Not surviving against other players.  Maybe there should be a bigger penalty for killing unarmed players then to prevent people just shooting on sight. Maybe there should be more of an incentive to team up with people. Maybe increase the amount of loot spawned depending on number of people around an area, encourages teaming up.  Maybe increase number of zombies spawned depending on group size in area. Encourages group play to increase challenge of the game.

 

Imagine two groups of players meeting each other in a town, lots of loot spawns but then a huge zombie hoards spawns and every player is suddenly busy shooting zombies not each other. The hoard is finished and a tense moment of time after with the two groups working out who is who and whether or not to start shooting.The two groups have a choice start shooting each other for an epic pvp fight or move on to the next town as one group, or go their separate ways saying good luck to each other. That sounds like a much more fun gaming experience to me than the current I'd rather play alone so I can get more kill and only worry about myself.

[Weedz 1105]

but that is my point the challenge of the game should be surviving against the zombies by teaming up. Not surviving against other players. 

You are completely wrong. Zombies are mindless shambling decomposing humans. Why would regular humans with functioning brains and weapons be less challenging? Even in single player zombie games the zombies are easy and you slaughter them by the hundreds and all the "boss" battles are against humans.

 

My favorite line from the Walking Dead 5 part game "It's not the zombies you need worry about; it's the bandits."

Edited December 20, 2013 by Weedz

[Jamz 253]

You are completely wrong. Zombies are mindless shambling decomposing humans. Why would regular humans with functioning brains and weapons be less challenging? Even in single player zombie games the zombies are easy and you slaughter them by the hundreds and all the "boss" battles are against humans.

 

 

 

You should check out Dawn Of The Dead (George Romero, 1978)

[Weedz 1105]

You should check out Dawn Of The Dead (George Romero, 1978)

I've seen it many times. There is tons of KoSing and bandits in it ... like the entire beginning of the movie ... like in every zombie movie, game, book, show, comic, or graphic novel.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Weedz

[Jamz 253]

I've seen it many times. There is tons of KoSing and bandits in it ... like the entire beginning of the movie ... like in every zombie movie, game, book, show, comic, or graphic novel.

 

And of course at the end of the film, it's inevitably the zombies which are the biggest threat, as always.

 

There is no kill on sight either, the bandits raid the mall because they want it for themselves, not so they can kill any humans inside for fun. All the killing in that film has reason behind it.

[kottton 5]

I think what I have gathered from all of this is instead of killing a fresh spawn on sight, I should talk to him or her and help them find supplies in the city.  Eventually we will come across some sort of weapon for them to defend themselves, and thats when you need to put a few slugs in their back.  That way they have wasted even more time than if I just shot them when they spawned in. Another plus would be me helping myself to all of the food and water they found for me.   

[Weedz 1105]

And of course at the end of the film, it's inevitably the zombies which are the biggest threat, as always.

 

There is no kill on sight either, the bandits raid the mall because they want it for themselves, not so they can kill any humans inside for fun. All the killing in that film has reason behind it.

I think you're the one who should watch the movie. There is one scene were a cop is just shooting the shit out of everything that moves including unarmed civilians. He is in fact just going door to door in an apartment kicking in the doors and shooting everyone inside and then gets killed by the other cops. The zombies only get into the mall ... BECAUSE of the looters.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Weedz