Why are people complaining about KOS like it's a feature issue?

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Actually this is the exact issue behind KOS, the fact that it's actually a simulated survival situation and therefore a contradiction in terms. If the situation were real people would not KOS, but this can never be the way in a complete sandbox FFA PVP game, unless something is done to accomodate alternate playstyles. No one has a problem with KOS per se, but rather its effect at the moment on other playstyles.

 

Alternate playstyles?  Some people KOS, some people don't, some people hoarde loot, some people want to kill as many zombies as they can, some people want to save people with bloodbags, some people want to rob people, some people want to do this or that....

 

So because some people hate KOS players, you want to advocate for some sort of safety net for the people who don't like KOS?

 

The BEST thing about this game is that it's open world.  There are no safe zones, there are no mechanics to allow someone to be safe (except logging off).  That is what makes DayZ so great!  it isn't some stupid arbitrary mechanic that allows someone to attack one type of person but can't attack some other type of person.  Games are best when everyone has equal weight in the world.  Games get ruined when a group (carebears) want safety because they don't like PvP (waaaah!) and do everything they can to get it nerfed or taken from the game.

 

Guess what, the game is about survival, not carebear kumbaya singing.  If you get shot you didn't survive, better luck next time.  And yes, in the real world things would be different... but it's a video game, so people can do WHATEVER they want in the game.

[mercules 1290]

Alternate playstyles?  Some people KOS, some people don't, some people hoarde loot, some people want to kill as many zombies as they can, some people want to save people with bloodbags, some people want to rob people, some people want to do this or that....

 

So because some people hate KOS players, you want to advocate for some sort of safety net for the people who don't like KOS?

 

The BEST thing about this game is that it's open world.  There are no safe zones, there are no mechanics to allow someone to be safe (except logging off).  That is what makes DayZ so great!  it isn't some stupid arbitrary mechanic that allows someone to attack one type of person but can't attack some other type of person.  Games are best when everyone has equal weight in the world.  Games get ruined when a group (carebears) want safety because they don't like PvP (waaaah!) and do everything they can to get it nerfed or taken from the game.

 

Guess what, the game is about survival, not carebear kumbaya singing.  If you get shot you didn't survive, better luck next time.  And yes, in the real world things would be different... but it's a video game, so people can do WHATEVER they want in the game.

 

Shall I again point out that I kill people, I just don't KOS people. 

KOS is

"Oh guy." Shoot

"Player." Shoot

"Newspaw" Shoot... then listen for any whining so you can drink his salty tears

Not, "Hmmmmm... I think I'll follow this guy and see if he has anything I need. Looks like he is alone. Should I even try to rob him? Not a good area and he does have Mosin although he doesn't have it out like he has ammo. I had better not risk it. Okay, there is my shot." Blam. 

[Mao Zedong 48]

Shall I again point out that I kill people, I just don't KOS people. 

KOS is

"Oh guy." Shoot

"Player." Shoot

"Newspaw" Shoot... then listen for any whining so you can drink his salty tears

Not, "Hmmmmm... I think I'll follow this guy and see if he has anything I need. Looks like he is alone. Should I even try to rob him? Not a good area and he does have Mosin although he doesn't have it out like he has ammo. I had better not risk it. Okay, there is my shot." Blam. 

 

So i think we've found the problem. It's NOT killing everyone you see (see how that can be confused with kos) but killing everyone without any thought to it. That only happens at the coast! I think we need to talk all military loot off the coast and make it more desirable to go north. Just my 2 cents. I can go in depth of why people need to go north if needed...

[doctorbadsign 645]

Of course not, but there are ways to discourage it. One way is to make your life actually matter so that people are less likely to risk shooting "for the lolz". Especially if they raise zombies up to the threat level they have talked about. They will never be as dangerous as a player, but make it so drawing their attention isn't easily dealt with and so that your death actually matters other than gear and I think you will see less people just blasting away without thought.

 

This might discourage it yes, but the whole notion of discouraging it is based upon the assumption that it is somehow an illegitimate way to play the game. 

 

People don't like it cause they lose their shit that they spent ages collecting, but killing someone on sight is just as legitimate as teaming up with them and helping them out. Its just that one has a positive impact for the person on the receiving end, and the other has a negative impact. 

 

In a real-life scenario in which law and order has broken down and everyone had to struggle to survive you probably would get people who would kill someone to take their stuff, and some psychos who would kill because they enjoy it and for no other reason. You'd also probably get psychotic/unstable people who lost their minds and decide that they want to chase you down the road with a wrench shouting wildly and making strange noises because there is nothing left to live for.

 

 

What exactly is it that people find so wrong with KOS? Other than being annoyed about losing their gear? I just view it as part of the world in game, people get crazy and desperate and want to kill you, so you need to be careful. I don't like it, but it doesn't spoil it for me.

Edited December 20, 2013 by DoctorBadSign

[mercules 1290]

This might discourage it yes, but the whole notion of discouraging it is based upon the assumption that it is somehow an illegitimate way to play the game. 

 

People don't like it cause they lose their shit that they spent ages collecting, but killing someone on sight is just as legitimate as teaming up with them and helping them out. Its just that one has a positive impact for the person on the receiving end, and the other has a negative impact. 

 

In a real-life scenario in which law and order has broken down and everyone had to struggle to survive you probably would get people who would kill someone to take their stuff. You'd also probably get psychotic/unstable people who lost their minds and decide that they want to chase you down the road with a wrench shouting wildly and making strange noises because there is nothing left to live for. 

 

What exactly is it that people find so wrong with KOS? Other than being annoyed about losing their gear? I just view it as part of the world in game, people get crazy and desperate and want to kill you, so you need to be careful. I don't like it, but it doesn't spoil it for me.

 

ARGH! :) I have nothing wrong with killing people. Look up, to the post before yours. I am NOT talking about eliminating killing. I am talking about eliminating mindless blast everything killing. In the Mod I have literally watched people die to zombies(which are really easy to deal with in the mod) because they decided they had to shoot that guy who didn't even have a backpack yet. It was the dumbest move they could make but they had that Kill On sight mentality going and just shot because... well... player... that's what you do? Right? Shoot other players no matter what?

I have NO issue with dying or killing. I do want things that discourage people from killing needlessly because in RL it would actually be a rather bad idea to do so constantly. Yeah.. I want a zombie appocolypse simulation not "CoD oh and there are some zombies or something..." We will see what happens when dean cranks up the zombies and puts in the new AI parts.

[kottton 5]

"Newspaw" Shoot... then listen for any whining so you can drink his salty tears

 

 

most rewarding part of the game right there

[doctorbadsign 645]

ARGH! :) I have nothing wrong with killing people. Look up, to the post before yours. I am NOT talking about eliminating killing. I am talking about eliminating mindless blast everything killing. In the Mod I have literally watched people die to zombies(which are really easy to deal with in the mod) because they decided they had to shoot that guy who didn't even have a backpack yet. It was the dumbest move they could make but they had that Kill On sight mentality going and just shot because... well... player... that's what you do? Right? Shoot other players no matter what?

I have NO issue with dying or killing. I do want things that discourage people from killing needlessly because in RL it would actually be a rather bad idea to do so constantly. Yeah.. I want a zombie appocolypse simulation not "CoD oh and there are some zombies or something..." We will see what happens when dean cranks up the zombies and puts in the new AI parts.

 

Apologies if I misconstrued you.

 

I think we are pretty much on the same page.

 

I think harder zombies would be awesome, but it would be difficult to balance because you need to account for the player who has nothing and has just spawned in. I'm excited to see what they do with them though  

[Mao Zedong 48]

ARGH! :) I have nothing wrong with killing people. Look up, to the post before yours. I am NOT talking about eliminating killing. I am talking about eliminating mindless blast everything killing. In the Mod I have literally watched people die to zombies(which are really easy to deal with in the mod) because they decided they had to shoot that guy who didn't even have a backpack yet. It was the dumbest move they could make but they had that Kill On sight mentality going and just shot because... well... player... that's what you do? Right? Shoot other players no matter what?

I have NO issue with dying or killing. I do want things that discourage people from killing needlessly because in RL it would actually be a rather bad idea to do so constantly. Yeah.. I want a zombie appocolypse simulation not "CoD oh and there are some zombies or something..." We will see what happens when dean cranks up the zombies and puts in the new AI parts.

 

 

I think you solved the problem right there.. Killing mindlessly gets them killed by other players or zombies... so if they want to do that, let them, they will end up killing themselves. Because people like to link this game to real life, yes, there are crazy people who would do just that. I don't see how it's a problem though. Just let it be and play how you choose.

[mercules 1290]

I think you solved the problem right there.. Killing mindlessly gets them killed by other players or zombies... so if they want to do that, let them, they will end up killing themselves. Because people like to link this game to real life, yes, there are crazy people who would do just that. I don't see how it's a problem though. Just let it be and play how you choose.

 

Yes, but right now it doesn't and in the Mod it typically doesn't(you have to be very special to get yourself killed like that, but some people are). So my hope is that we will add in systems that weed out various levels of, well... "stupid". :) Then once people pause and think, "should I or shouldn't I?" then you have what DayZ was long ago and is on some private servers where you maybe don't trust people, but you occasionally interact with them. Believe those interactions make the times when they don't work out that much more interesting. 

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Shall I again point out that I kill people, I just don't KOS people. 

KOS is

"Oh guy." Shoot

"Player." Shoot

"Newspaw" Shoot... then listen for any whining so you can drink his salty tears

Not, "Hmmmmm... I think I'll follow this guy and see if he has anything I need. Looks like he is alone. Should I even try to rob him? Not a good area and he does have Mosin although he doesn't have it out like he has ammo. I had better not risk it. Okay, there is my shot." Blam. 

 

I fail to see any difference in shooting the person when you have the chance versus tailing them for X-amount of time and then shooting them.  If I see someone, and I know I have the advantage, i'll shoot them when the moment presents itself.  Whether that's the instance I see them or 20 minutes later after tailing them makes no difference.

 

Shooting someone is shooting someone in this game.  It makes no difference if you think it was "KOS" or some other arbitrary reason you want to add to the mix to complicate your way of thinking on this.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Tek

[Mao Zedong 48]

Yes, but right now it doesn't and in the Mod it typically doesn't(you have to be very special to get yourself killed like that, but some people are). So my hope is that we will add in systems that weed out various levels of, well... "stupid". :) Then once people pause and think, "should I or shouldn't I?" then you have what DayZ was long ago and is on some private servers where you maybe don't trust people, but you occasionally interact with them. Believe those interactions make the times when they don't work out that much more interesting. 

 

The zombies are going to increase, and there are rumors of hoardes, so I think it's too early to say the problem of no risk when shooting won't be addressed. 

[mercules 1290]

I fail to see any difference in shooting the person when you have the chance versus tailing them for X-amount of time and then shooting them.  If I see someone, and I know I have the advantage, i'll shoot them when the moment presents itself.  Whether that's the instance I see them or 20 minutes later after tailing them makes no difference.

 

Shooting someone is shooting someone in this game.  It makes no difference if you think it was "KOS" or some other arbitrary reason you want to add to the mix to complicate your way of thinking on this.

 

It's not. See my post about the moron who got swarmed and died in the Mod. His attitude was not speculative, it was, "Player! SHOOT IT! QUICK SHOOT IT!" and there are many running around just like that. It becomes infectious and pretty soon even someone who is against it finds himself almost pulling the trigger just because it is another player. I pulled myself back from the brink because I had no clue if he was the only guy in the area. I just spotted him and went to scope and nearly pulled the trigger. 

See, the KOS mentality leads to people chasing others through a whole town trying to hit them with an axe... which is futile since they will never catch a person with nothing in their hands while running with an Axe, it just wont' happen, but they "gotta kill that guy". 

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

It's not. See my post about the moron who got swarmed and died in the Mod. His attitude was not speculative, it was, "Player! SHOOT IT! QUICK SHOOT IT!" and there are many running around just like that. It becomes infectious and pretty soon even someone who is against it finds himself almost pulling the trigger just because it is another player. I pulled myself back from the brink because I had no clue if he was the only guy in the area. I just spotted him and went to scope and nearly pulled the trigger. 

See, the KOS mentality leads to people chasing others through a whole town trying to hit them with an axe... which is futile since they will never catch a person with nothing in their hands while running with an Axe, it just wont' happen, but they "gotta kill that guy". 

 

And that's how those players want to play.  It's there time, it's their $30 dollars they spent on this game, it's their choice to do as they see fit.  Nothing you say do should "force" them to play other than HOW they want to.  Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

 

This is getting repetitive.  People will play HOW they want to play.  You are not the god to tell them how they should play.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Because in that actual situation it would blatantly stupid to wander around blasting people with guns for the lolz?

 

Okay. When we're in the actual situation, I'll let you know and you and I can band together and till the fields for planting seeds and build pens for breeding livestock, because that's what I would be doing in the "actual situation." I sure as dogshit wouldn't be wandering around ruined cities and blundering through wilderness in search of old beans and rotten fruit.

 

Until the actual apocalypse rolls around, though, I'm going to spend my evenings locking, loading and blasting the stupid, ugly faces off every random survivor I come across because that's about the most fun money can buy.

 

Deal?

 

Deal.

[MakeThemListen 51]

 i only kill like 60% of the people I see

 

 

KoS Panther - 60% of the time it works every time

[Jamz 253]

Alternate playstyles?  Some people KOS, some people don't, some people hoarde loot, some people want to kill as many zombies as they can, some people want to save people with bloodbags, some people want to rob people, some people want to do this or that....

 

So because some people hate KOS players, you want to advocate for some sort of safety net for the people who don't like KOS?

 

The BEST thing about this game is that it's open world.  There are no safe zones, there are no mechanics to allow someone to be safe (except logging off).  That is what makes DayZ so great!  it isn't some stupid arbitrary mechanic that allows someone to attack one type of person but can't attack some other type of person.  Games are best when everyone has equal weight in the world.  Games get ruined when a group (carebears) want safety because they don't like PvP (waaaah!) and do everything they can to get it nerfed or taken from the game.

 

Guess what, the game is about survival, not carebear kumbaya singing.  If you get shot you didn't survive, better luck next time.  And yes, in the real world things would be different... but it's a video game, so people can do WHATEVER they want in the game.

 

Well, the fact is that the KOS playstyle is a little unique. It self perpetuates and spreads from player to player willingly or unwillingly. It's the only playstyle that requires another player to be involved and forces them to address it. This is why it needs to be considered differently to any other.

 

No one wants a mechanic build into the game to tell you who you can or can't shoot or how you can interact with other players, but some of us are interested in finding a reason to not KOS, a benefit to holding fire, just for a while sometimes. Something that doesn't negatively affect the KOS playstyle either - nobody wants to temper your psychotic tendancies, so you don't have to worry about that, it's not the way of DayZ :)

 

I don't think anyone would play DayZ if they didn't like PvP, but there is a little more to the game than that. You just have to dig deeper.

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

Scenario: 

 

I with my friend, both of us have pretty decent gear, we see a guy with his back towards up, I have a clear shot. He is armed.

 

Give me one valid reason not to pull that trigger. 

[kragz 156]

"pointless" KOS is not pointless. There's nothing better than knowing people like Mercules are fresh spawning on the coast and alt-tabbing to spend their entire day posting about it on the forum. 

 

Those kind of tears taste so, so sweet :)

[Weedz 1105]

Wow, such anger.

Let's see... yes, learning curve is higher and that is ok.

Survival does not include killing because a) dead body can't do any job for you b) can't became your friend and watch your back c) requires some unneeded risk and expenditure of ammunition d) can draw unneeded attention e) lots of other factors .

Rest of the post is unrelated and is a poor attempt to provoke me. Have fun, whine less.

Yes adding more people who you don't know to your group who you now have to share supplies with so everyone dies faster is a great idea in a survival situation. Much better than killing some random carebear who thinks everyone is supposed to skipping around holding hands teaching zombies about friendship so you can take his loot and use it to survive another day.

I think you were looking for the hello kitty island adventures forums and got here by mistake.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Weedz

[Jaygoon 240]

The issue is that other people in real life would have something beyond the crap on their back to bring to the mix of a group. In the game your character value is for the most part your gear. So for most lone wolves all another player tends to be false under two categories: Threat or Loot. Since both categories work well with putting a bullet into that other players head that is what they do. That is a system issue. 

In real life during something like this you might want to NOT run around shooting everyone you see because all those other people might have valuable skills and you can't tell what they are with a quick glance what what they are wearing and carrying. That guy might be a Dr. or First Responder and could end up saving your life if you fall ill or get hurt. That guy might be a mechanic and can get a car running from spare parts. Heck,  pencil pusher accountant might be able to look at some records in an office and tell you where a supply of food might be cached from the receipts.

The other thing that pushes it is death not meaning anything. You die, you respawn, you gear up. You don't care about the avatar since there is nothing about it that it took effort to get. In some cases you were lucky, in others it was a small time investment,  and in yet others you farmed loot server hopping so who cares you can do it again. People who don't care about that life just charge in and do it all over. For them that becomes the game. Not how long can I stay alive, but how quickly can I be able to kill someone else. It's a reversal of the idea behind the game. 

It's fine to always have that threat but I have already been killed with literally nothing but the starter gear you drop with which means I was killed to no advantage to the person killing me. THAT is KoS not, "Oh... he has a gun and doesn't realize we are here. We could ambush him when he comes out of that house and then have a gun as well as Axes."

 

 

You sir, have been watching too much The Walking Dead...  A programme so realistic everyone loves everyone else and the shotguns have unlimited ammo and no recoil lol  ;)

 

[Weedz 1105]

You sir, have been watching too much The Walking Dead... A programme so realistic everyone loves everyone else and the shotguns have unlimited ammo and no recoil lol ;)

It's funny though because walking dead just like every single piece of zombie fiction ever had bandits who KoS people. Lots of them in fact Edited December 20, 2013 by Weedz

[Jaygoon 240]

KoS is a part of call-of-duty-deathmacth gameplay and is brought to DayZ by cod-kiddies. Extreme survival situation is not about running around gunning everyone. Not trying to offend but that's true.

 

Extreme survival?  what against?  zombies that cant catch you? Hunger? Thirst?

 

All these are easy to survive against..  Facts are without other players as a threat in Dayz the game would have died ages ago.

 

If you need a Pve experience zombie game theres many out there without pvp and kos.

 

Why does it feel that every game i like, Carebears come along and turn it into a lovefest/lets all kiss and make up clusterfuck mankini game?

 

Leave Dayz as it is, and how Rocket intended in the beginning.

 

The real reason some dont like the kos mentality is because they suck at surviving against anything other than dumb computer oponents or scripted easy to manage scenarios.

 

A real man can survive against zombies, hunger, disease, thirst  AND KOS PLAYERS!

[Jaygoon 240]

It's funny though because walking dead just like every single piece of zombie fiction ever had bandits who KoS people. Lots of them in fact

 

lmao, really, not alot of them in walking dead.

I stopped watching it when it became a sitcom.

[Jaygoon 240]

Shall I again point out that I kill people, I just don't KOS people. 

KOS is

"Oh guy." Shoot

"Player." Shoot

"Newspaw" Shoot... then listen for any whining so you can drink his salty tears

Not, "Hmmmmm... I think I'll follow this guy and see if he has anything I need. Looks like he is alone. Should I even try to rob him? Not a good area and he does have Mosin although he doesn't have it out like he has ammo. I had better not risk it. Okay, there is my shot." Blam. 

 

Ya typical KOS forum complainer scenario.

 

Spawns in, runs into a city in the daylight, down the middle of the road, in full view, without a care in the world and...

Bang.. hes shot dead.

Logs on forums and "waaaa waaaaaa kos suckssssss, nerf nerf nerf it"

 

Learn to play and kos wont be such a problem. Learn to survive against other players, not just the dumb computer game opponents.

[Sabitsuita 4]

I had amazing experience yesterday. I was checking cherno med and i met some guy there, of course i used VOIP to tell him to drop his weapons and he did but he never did tell me that he had friends all around the building so i had no choice than to kill this guy and take his bullets. I managed to kill 4 of them solo and the last one got me but it was epic!

Edited December 20, 2013 by Sabitsuita