a study of the carebear (ursus cura)

[PhilB 230]

And . . .

 

To be a little controversial and play devil's advocate.

 

I want to make an argument in favor of Lee's act. This isn't to say I believe this but simply to add some more ideas here.

 

I would make a distinction between server rules that are explicit within the original design of DayZ and what I will call "aftermarket" rules. DayZ was designed with pvp as an essential element. Things like not scripting, or not using racial epithets in side chat, are explicit rules that have existed from day one as well. These are rules that will get you banned from every server. No-pvp is an aftermarket rule that is, at least in my opinion, completely contrary to the vision and design of DayZ. And when a server owner attempts to institute rules that are contrary to pure DayZ, they should expect that folks will disregard those rules.

 

In a simple way, if it was proven that LeeHarvey was spewing racism in any server, he would rightly deserve a ban. But he broke a special rule applied only to select servers and he wouldn't rightly deserve a global ban for that. 

 

Imagine if one knew absolutely nothing about DayZ. If I told that person, "no pvp!", that would seem as completely arbitrary as if I told that person, "no hatchets!". The only reason we, as players, even have any feelings towards this is because it contains context for us. But what if LeeHarvey told a story about logging onto my server where I have a rule that says, "No hatchets". And then he relates that he went to some far off barn and picked up a hatchet just to spite me and my server rules. Would any of you really give a shit? I don't think so. The reason why is because he broke an extra rule that I decided to dictate that is expressly contrary to the original design of DayZ. 

Edited November 30, 2013 by PhilB

[wild_man 4442]

what philb say :beans:  :beans:

 

Lee break rule but not universal dayz rule, he break rule what minimum server say

 

I know is small number of server say this because I was kick ban from every no pvP server and is take me 2 nights playing :D

 

there is server with rule no steal  

 

this mean if you find car/tent/dead player you get ban for touch :huh:

 

who is crazy? guy who make stupid rule or guy who break stupid rule?

 

for me is guy who make stupid rule because he create also guy who break stupid rule :thumbsup:  ;)

 

 

I agree, but that's beside the point. Don't forget that DayZ is a mod of ARMA and people who run their private server are free to set their own gameplay rules. The fact that you or me think that said rules are not in the spirit of the offical DayZ mod doesn't really matter. It's not much different from joining an ARMA server and TKing everyone for the lulz.

 

you make fair point rista :)

 

I agree kill on no pvP server is trolling, I do it and I know I do for make point and make mad carebear guys  :D

 

but is not same like TK on arma because dayz don't have no mission for all guys work together

Edited November 30, 2013 by KoS

[PhilB 230]

Thank you KoS for adding clarity and brevity to my point. 

 

Translation-

 

Is hard for me to make point simply

 

Writing is troublesome for me, is America education problem

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

No-pvp is an aftermarket rule that is, at least in my opinion, completely contrary to the vision and design of DayZ. And when a server owner attempts to institute rules that are contrary to pure DayZ, they should expect that folks will disregard those rules.

The original design of DayZ doesn't matter as long as we're talking about an ARMA mod played on a private server. Non-pvp servers existed before DayZ. It still wasn't ok to break the rules because you believed that's not how ARMA should be played. Most popular DayZ servers these days stray so far away from the original concept that most people already do play the game contrary to the vision and design of DayZ anyway.

 

but is not same like TK on arma because dayz don't have no mission for all guys work together

Is this not exactly what they're trying to achieve on those servers though?

[wild_man 4442]

 

 

Is this not exactly what they're trying to achieve on those servers though?

 

 

maybe in some way they doing this :rolleyes:

 

look, Lee is make protest against what he see is stupid rule same like me doing before ;)

 

carebear get gear refund from admin after, they losing maybe 10 minute time only

 

is not same like lee make hack and kill server or something like :o

 

for me I agree him no pvP is stupid rule but I see your point also

 

main thing is Lee don't break no universal Dayz rules, he don't break no forum rules and I enjoy to read his story :thumbsup:  :)

Edited November 30, 2013 by KoS

[zfleming12 395]

I have to admit I chuckled at this a bit.

[PhilB 230]

 

for me I agree him no pvP is stupid rule but I see your point also

 

main thing is Lee don't break no universal Dayz rules, he don't break no forum rules and I enjoy to read his story :thumbsup:  :)

 

My point as well. There was a suggestion to ban LeeHarvey from the forums.

 

As you said, Rista, these are all Arma mods with their own rules. But not rules that constitute the breaking of some Bohemia Interactive holy law. However DayZ as its own mod, does have some rules that are applied almost across the board, such as scripting. Scripting is explicitly not allowed. If LeeHarvey admitted on these forums to scripting, then yes, ban him from the game and yes, maybe ban him from the forums.

 

But he posted a bandit story within the bandit campfire section of the forums. I don't agree with his actions. I wouldn't go into a server to break their rules. I think he made a dick move, but not an illegal one.

 

He broke a rule without circumventing the core code. If for instance, this non-pvp server in question had changed its code so that bullets fired from a gun had zero effect on other players and he scripted a cheat to break that code, then we might have another discussion. But I'm assuming this is a non-whitelist server that relies on the good intentions of all players, so they assume the responsibility of policing their server pop.

 

Yes, he broke a private Arma mod server rule. That is between him and that server. If he wants to share his "bandit-minded ethos" in the bandit section of the forums, more power to him. 

[Element47 2481]

 

Yes, he broke a private Arma mod server rule. That is between him and that server. If he wants to share his "bandit-minded ethos" in the bandit section of the forums, more power to him. 

 

 

seriously, no looting tents, gear refund if shot as server rules? such a server shouldnt be advertised as DayZ on the server list. But it was, so Its not "some random Arma II PvE mod" we are talking about. But as you said, its between him and the server, and imho not the main subject of this thread.

 

it cannot be denied that his stories are enjoyed by bandits and carebears alike. from what i see, he really adds value to the forums with his stories. This is the very essence of the bandit campfire, stories of ruthless, vile conduct, making carebears gasp in shock and horror and gritty killers nodding in approval.

 

 

full disclosure: author is fulltime carebear medic playing main hive, who doesnt shoot people even at NWAF.

Edited December 1, 2013 by e47

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting a ban or anything like that. He most likely got banned by the server admin and that's all that he deserved. Nothing less nothing more. I actually do like some of Lee's stories but for me there's a difference between a dick move that will make some people rage and others laugh, and this kind of behavior which is plain childishness.

[leftcrusade 33]

I agree, but that's beside the point. Don't forget that DayZ is a mod of ARMA and people who run their private server are free to set their own gameplay rules. The fact that you or me think that said rules are not in the spirit of the offical DayZ mod doesn't really matter. It's not much different from joining an ARMA server and TKing everyone for the lulz.

 

Thats just not the same. Arma 2 is made as a military simulator in which you have to kill your enemy. Not your team. As I said, Arma 2 is made to be like that.

What Lee did is not much different than when joining a server in which the admins say you may only crouch and not run and after that you killed somebody, hatchet only, you have to teabag the body. And Lee would run instead of crouch. Thats would be comparable with the carebear server.

The point I'm making is that your comparison is not good. 

Private servers with retarded admins who make retarded rules, is just not comparable with Arma 2 where you are tk'ing.

 

If you wan't to play carebear dayz, don't expect people to follow your silly rules. Go play My Little Pony multiplayer where you can brush each others hair. Thats more for you.

 

Conclusion: Lee didn't do a bad thing, he just showed that carebears they shouldn't be expecting to play in peace in their my little pony like server. And killing in a carebear server is NOT the same as tk'ing in a (not modded) Arma 2 server.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Gigantic Ballsack

[OrLoK 16186]

Hello there

 

Hmmmmm.

 

Rules.

 

Interesting.

 

I think of a forum or server as an analogy to a bar/pub.

 

Each has their individual rules (written and unwritten) and if one wishes to play/drink/post etc at those places then one has to obey those rules regardless of their "stupidity" in one's or one's peers eyes.

 

For eg if I drink in a pub which tolerates, say for example, prostitution, then although that pub's behaviour might go against my personal ethics, Im not going to complain to the landlord about it, Im just going to find a nicer pub.

 

Or if I like other aspects of the pub that I dont want to give up then I must tolerate that which I dont like and see if I can cope.

 

Its not always an easy balance and things are not always clear cut and black and white.

 

When it comes to forums, there is a belief somehow that freedom of speech exists.

 

This is not correct.

 

It may seem unfair but on forums like this we are incredibly lax with what we allow, but there are certain subjects which are not tolerated for one reason or another, even though it may seem unfair, especially if deemed unjust. There is method in our madness though and if one has an issue feel free to PM a blue or green mod.

 

As to how DAYZ is played, if its on a private server then the rules are up to the individual Server Admin.

 

It has nothing to do with "us" or the "Mod" or "how it should be played"

 

It's their rules. Abide by them or leave.

 

There's enough out there to cater for most.

 

Rules may seem silly or unfair, but on the whole there#s always a reason for them being in place. If one wants to change the rules there are sensible ways to achieve this. It just takes a bit of thought.

 

Rgds

 

LoK