Addon Author's Rights

[kichilron 8550]

I don't even know what vilas wants here anymore. Many people have stated that he's not going to get any actual support for what he has done.

 

And even though I understand his actions from a human point of view - that he wants to finally get money out of something he has been working on and that he saw his opportunity - it is just something that you used to do for fun. But now that you've sold yourself to something that is not particularly liked among the people of this forum you can't expect to get any help on here anymore.

 

And that doesn't have to do with the fact that we don't like particular people (as I have never spoken to them personally), but with the fact that you don't even get what you're saying. You're saying that you don't want anyone to use your material and going on about how this community is fucked, because everyone uses everything without asking for permission and that Origins are the only good people in this game. But like it was pointed out to you multiple times already - they're not. They were the ones starting the game using code without permission and then trying to monetize it. And trying to sell them as the good people to us doesn't make me like nor support you particularly.

 

If you want to go on ranting about that on this forums, so be it. But you're obviously not going to get big support in this community with the way you're handling things.

[r4z0r49 4761]

I'm still not sure why this is still carrying on here in the dayz forums we don't use anything from you. Contact the devs for the mods using your stuff.

[badluckburt 974]

And even though I understand his actions from a human point of view - that he wants to finally get money out of something he has been working on and that he saw his opportunity - it is just something that you used to do for fun. But now that you've sold yourself to something that is not particularly liked among the people of this forum you can't expect to get any help on here anymore.

 

And that doesn't have to do with the fact that we don't like particular people (as I have never spoken to them personally), but with the fact that you don't even get what you're saying. You're saying that you don't want anyone to use your material and going on about how this community is fucked, because everyone uses everything without asking for permission and that Origins are the only good people in this game. But like it was pointed out to you multiple times already - they're not. They were the ones starting the game using code without permission and then trying to monetize it. And trying to sell them as the good people to us doesn't make me like nor support you particularly.

 

If you want to go on ranting about that on this forums, so be it. But you're obviously not going to get big support in this community with the way you're handling things.

 

You do not understand what Vilas wants unless I misunderstood him myself. He does not necessarily want to make money but if you're making money (through donations) by using his mods, he would like a share of that. He has also stated that if you use his mods without accepting donations, he doesn't have a problem with that and would let you continue to do so.

 

I wonder how the whole discussion would've gone if he hadn't mentioned Origins, it seems to be sort of a buzzword to get some people here riled up and logic seems to fly out the window.

 

Razor has a point though, he should contact the mod creators and sort it out with them as there's nothing people here can do.

[vilas@o2.pl 13]

 

 He does not necessarily want to make money but if you're making money (through donations) by using his mods, he would like a share of that. He has also stated that if you use his mods without accepting donations, he doesn't have a problem with that and would let you continue to do so.

correct in probably native English + permission needed BEFORE (and i will not give it to mods that already collected money in past like Epoch for example plus servers keepers who charge players for costs much bigger than server in Arma2)

Edited October 26, 2013 by vilas

[Inception. 9443]

 wonder how the whole discussion would've gone if he hadn't mentioned Origins, it seems to be sort of a buzzword to get some people here riled up and logic seems to fly out the window.

 

Not necessarily. Origins are essentially doing the exact thing that vilas dislikes, using another's code without permission nor giving any credit.

[kichilron 8550]

My problems with how Origins handles their servers and legal actions aside - this isn't the right community-forum to do this and that's what I was pointing at.

I feel like a broken record now. The guys he's making money with took the DayZ-Code and sold it as their product and now he complains on here and this is why I don't like that:

 

Why would he bother coming on here, where the forums are evolving around actual rather than any other mod of the mod. Especially, as R4Z0R has pointed out, this isn't the place people use vilas' stuff.

Edited October 26, 2013 by kichilron

[vilas@o2.pl 13]

Dayz Epoch and 20 other mods are not using this code ? 

[kichilron 8550]

Let me help you with something, so you don't have to get yourself in trouble on this forum any further.

 

 http://dayzepoch.com/

 

 

This ain't Epoch, yo!

[r4z0r49 4761]

They are not here this is the forum for the official DayZ and we do not use your addon's. Contact the devs for each mod using your stuff.

Not that i don't agree but you moaning at the wrong ppl go to each dev for the mods you have an issue with. We can not do anything
 

We dont mind the discussion and all that but to get any action you need to bring it to the devs running the mods in question.

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

I've been using your addons since OFP vilas. I respect your work and I totally agree no one's work should be used without permission. That being said, you siding with Origins and trying to make them out to be the only good guys, when in fact they're one of the worst offenders of the very thing you have a problem with, makes you very hypocritical. Like others have said, this is official DayZ Mod forum and the official DayZ does not use your addons.

[smallhil 26]

IMO this worth being discussed on these forums even when nothing can't be actualy be resolved here. Does BIS have anything to say in this? Afterall DayZ is a modded version of ArmA 2, like for example Ace or i44. What does the EULA of Arma say about this? I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to make mods/addons for commercial reasons.

An whole other can of worms is accepting donations to cover server costs, what if you actualy would make a profit from that, is that allowe? What about charging money to play on a server? If these things are acceptable then modders whose content is used should also bennefit from it.

Sorry, these kind of discusions raise more questions with me than ansers or opions.

[r4z0r49 4761]

Discussion is fine long as the op knows we cant do anything about it. He will need to contact the devs of each mod to open a discussion about this to them for any action to get done.

[NonovUrbizniz (DayZ) 137]

I haven't had time to read all the posts as yet.... 


One thing I think that everyone should keep in mind...


1. Vilas is not a native english speaker, and as such at time mis communicates his point, or drive. Also at times can mis-interpret what is going on.. He and I talk a lot on Skype and I think some of this on both ends is mis communication.

2. Vilas is not origins, nor does he prohibit use of his assets at their instruction. 

3. Sahrani was/has/will be given access to many of Vilas' addons and even source in some cases. He is a LOT more open and giving than I think anyone bothered to find out here...

4. The anger and vitriol towards Origins is totally out of place in this conversation and irrelevant to whether or not Vilas wants to share or if he should be respected or not...


You don't get to pick and chose who's rights you defend. Even if it meant dropping months of work we've done on source Vilas assets, if he wanted to pull his permission I would respect that.... and I would do so even if it was an obvious attack instructed by Origins or whatever other boogey many we're all blaming for our DayZ Rage lately...

Frankly 2 of the projects that I had in the works will be shelved due to this situation even though Vilas has assured me there is no need to worry about the permissions... it is an act of solidarity not fear.

The degree to which he was willing to share with our group due to our respect of the long standing and clear arma modding rules makes it more than clear to me that he is in no way under the thumb of, or in the pocket of Origins...

Vilas is a standup guy, a terrifically talented modeller, and someone who's been freely giving to countless mods of Arma for a decade and has never asked for anything in return... 

[NonovUrbizniz (DayZ) 137]

I read all the replies in here, short a few, they seem much more level headed and realistic.


Honestly all I'd like to see is a sticky in the forums somewhere about these simple rules.

I also think the problem is fall out from the lack of communication about modding in the early days of DayZ modding... I think it's fair to say that the initial batch of mods were far from approved, but at a certain point Rocket gave up on the idea of protecting his code from external use.

However his failure to communicate on the subject has resulted in a lot of people using their own personal interpretation of his wishes as the new rules regarding modding.

The long and short of it is the rules for Arma modding are already clear, and that's what applies to all other DayZ mods... Permission for use of the DayZ code is now handled by the community dev team : https://github.com/DayZMod/DayZ/wiki/License-and-permission-to-use

 

The long and short of it, is, This place is the closest thing to an "official" forum, so IMO the lack of clarity regarding Arma Modding rules, and at least SOME enforcement of those rules on these forums is desperately lacking.

SmashT's thread on mods should have a note about it so players know, and honestly if there are legit complaints received from addon author's like Vilas, the promotion of those mods on the official forums should be prohibited...

Something tells me Reddit, and OpenDayZ.net would back that up as well... ONLY direct complaints from source authors with evidence.. not just shit stirring complaints from jealous other modders or disgruntled players.

I know for a fact that Dotjosh would be willing to pull mods that are using disputed content, and Sickboy would no doubt follow suit... that would leave "rogue mods" only their own websites to promote them... 

Which gives you a happy healthy environment for Vilas and other source authors to feel like they have the support of those in the know at least.

[Spikér 136]

well on the EPOCH change log 

 

Epoch changes: [REMOVED] Modern Civilian vehicles pack http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=17447 removed due to permission issues.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Spikér

[NonovUrbizniz (DayZ) 137]

I would have similarly positive words about the EPOCH guys, they are stand up guys and do lots of amazing work. When this was raised as an issue I know they immediately said they would drop use of the addons...

One thing to keep in mind as stated either here or in the Vilas thread is, that there is/was/still remains so much confusion in DayZ modding scene due to the lack of a clear message regarding author's rights on this site, or by Dean Hall himself (although that's not really his role as an employee of BIS).

Many truly believe that since DayZ gets used (initially w/o the consent of Dean Hall) so rampantly that any other author should STFU and let everyone use their stuff too... or that DayZ/BI don't address the use of it because they think it should be free/open....

There are clear simple rules, and no method or desire on anyone's part to create a police or enforcement agency... only to raise awareness in the community as to what is and is NOT considered acceptable.

[Spikér 136]

well i think people using common sense and decency would be enough tbh. But i mentioned those in another thread.

 

Now ive got to go deal with the tears from a friend that's lost his towtruck on Epoch.. LOL

[prominentalex 76]

I can understand if Vilas was getting mad because people were selling the mod as a product... but that fact is, it is free and it's the players choice to donate, there is no standard fee.

[vilas@o2.pl 13]

 but that fact is, it is free and it's the players choice to donate, there is no standard fee.

 

but donated can be AUTHOR who made addon, not other person, 

Epoch mod cannot be donated for ... addons i made or server keeper cannot be donated from people playing my addons (i mean that some individuals put addons on server and want money from players for playing addons which are not made by them) 

just like i cannot be donated for what Invasion1944 mod did or CWR2 mod or CSLA mod cannot be donated for what Invasion44 mod did etc. 

donation is for AUTHOR not for "mod" which takes my addon and pack it into installer without even dear to share ,

if player want donate - he can only donate author, not redistributor of addon

 

so once again is see that dayz community members do not see difference between author of addon (models, textures, configs) and user who just repack and zip other addons (as majority of dayz mods do with even OFP addons and authors of OFP addons who left community in 2006 do not know that now their buildings are packed and used in Arma2 and someone collect donations), 

 

there is no big difference between "selling"  other men's addon and donation from other men's addon - in both cases author do not get his share

 

if Epoch or other mods do their own models (they have modelers, texture makers) they can collect donations - simple 

if someone made model, textures - it is his luck to get donation

if model is made by other person, textures are made by other person - it means he cannot collect donations (but it happens in dayz modding scene where all dayz mods collect money and only few of them have modeler or texture artist in team) 

 

for example RobbertHammer or Christian1987 cannot be donated for weapons packs because he uses Counterstrike authors models (models, textures are made by Counterstrik modders and RobbertHammer just imported models to Arma) - example of author and non-author donations issues 

if for example RobbertHammer or Christian1987 would be collecting donations i would write email report to original authors from Counterstrike who would gone mad etc. 

for exaple Marsellie77 used my cars and APC and weapons to make his RACS/SLA/German mods and he cannot collect donations using my models etc. etc. 

RACS mod for example contain my tanks, my vehicles, my weapons - situation is similar

 

so it is not issue IS someone collecting donations or not, but IF he made stuff (models, textures) himself, in fact majority of dayz mods do not have single modeler, single texture artist but have hundreds of weapons, vehicles and collect donations - this is issue and problem,

 

selling addons also happens on worldzombie.ru Russians were selling Martin's Taviana, to download Taviana you had to pay 250 Russian Rubels (their money) to download Taviana for Russian dayz modification 

 

so the main issue is whose content is in comparision to donations profiteer , in Arma2 modding scene there is no such problem because almost noone collect donations , in dayz "modding" afaik all mods have "donate" button, all servers have "donate" button, from 2004 to end of 2012 i didn't get even cent for hundreds of models i made for OFP, Arma1, Arma2, dozen of mods, when dayz entered scene first what those "modders" done was to start Paypal and pack our addons (Martin island was one of first addons from Arma which was monetized by third parties, my weapons pack were second probably and later i was seeing my cars or my weapons on Youtube as "other mods content" with "donation" button) , in Arma when someone want to use addon in his mod (not player but modder) first he asks and he doesnt collect money using your models, 

 

in Arma it is very rare and Arma /OFP community has 10 years, dayz comunity has 1 year and during this year made more problems to addonmakers than Arma/OFP community would do in 100 years

 

when OFP /Arma comunity moder is asked to remove content he has answer "okay", when RKLS Rock (author of jet planes) asked one dayz guy not to steal cotnet he get answer "Fuck you you cocky cunt that maybe most of the addon makers but there are thousands more of us hackers than guys that just make stuff!' < such things not happned in OFP/Arma since 2002 , 

so RKLS ROCK answered "Maybe so, but if we dont make stuff for public release you wont have anything to hack."

Edited November 5, 2013 by vilas

[Spikér 136]

all servers have "donate" button

 

That's a bold statement to make considering that you are welcome to join my server at ANYTIME you like and you will see we do not and will not accept donations. Believe  it or not, i do know what you are referring to in some sense as we have a VERY good scriptwriter who makes lots of unique scripts for our server that are now wide spread yet he almost never gets any credits for writing them.

 

But while you are right in some sense, by tarring the whole DayZ community with the same brush, you are also making yourself very wrong. I mean, all you do is mention Epoh and WorldZombie.Ru. 

 

The last point also has me confused. He asked ONE person to remove his mods and was told to F off, that means that every DayZ player is like that? Well ive replied to you quite a few times now, and have been nothing but respectful. I could also judge mod makers as whiny bitches too if i was to use your brush but thankfully im a bit more mature than that and as such, they will continue to have my respect.

[PK Richie 507]

You're whoring at the wrong forum, how many times do you need told ? Go see the Epoch guys ... oh wait they stopped using your model :p

Guess you're out of luck then seeing how nobody is using your models anymore, try putting your soul on craigslist if you're still desperate for money.

[kichilron 8550]

Hmmm. Interesting.

 

You keep talking about the entire community getting money out of their projects using other peoples content. What I find interesting about this is that you are actually the one using the word "Donations" all the time. The moneyflow going on in between members of this community is mostly to keep servers and websites running. I highly doubt that anyone will get thousands and thousands of moneys out of the donations or have anything left to use for themselves.

 

In reality they're not providing a service you would pay for and get money for it. They get donations to have their (test-) servers, Teamspeaks and websites running and don't get anything for their personal use out of the donations.

 

The only ones I have heard of actually making proper money and not living off of donations to have their servers running are the peeps from Origins. But it appears you have sold your soul to them already - so why are you bothering us?

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I am running tons of servers and I manage the TMW-Servers on my own and they are still running, because people donate towards them. I personally have never gotten anything out of it. If you want to prove a point you can send me money, vilas. I need it anyway.

Edited November 5, 2013 by kichilron

[theszerdi 50]

Why is it so hard to understand the difference between donations to keep a server running and charging money to play on a server?

 

My server's are completely free and public. We don't charge people money to play on them. We do not give in-game items or perks for money.

 

We DO accept donations to help pay for the servers and keep them running free and public. To date the server costs versus the donations received put me hundreds of dollars into the red.

 

I realize many servers do give "donator perks" that amount to microtransactions purchasing in-game items. If the money received is only used to keep the server running this doesn't bother me, however, it is a problem if that money is going into someone's pocket. Unfortunately it is near impossible to prove and bring the law to bear against such things.

 

Edit to add:

 

In the case of full mods like Epoch, Aftermath, Origins, etc I agree that permission needs to be sought for any others' content used. As for donations received by such mods and compensation to the creators of said others' content that would have to be worked out on an individual basis between modders and creators. In which case the creator can always pull their work from the mod if no agreement can be reached. Just as Vilas did with Epoch.

Edited November 5, 2013 by TheSzerdi

[vilas@o2.pl 13]

Epoch looking at their page donations get  over thousand dollars (over 1000 $) on content without asking about use it before, and noone in arma community calls addonmakers "whores" like you do here 

Edited November 5, 2013 by vilas

[Spikér 136]

Epoch looking at their page donations get  over thousand dollars (over 1000 $) on content without asking about use it before, and noone in arma community calls addonmakers "whores" like you do here 

 

 

yet again vilas, taring the masses with 1 brush. 

 

here is a hint

 

 

 

EPOCH HAVE REMOVED YOUR MOD'S. STOP WHINING ON THE DAYZ FORUMS NOW PLEASE!

 

 

 

 

This has gone far enough. You have made your point. Now your only coming on here to INSULT the DayZ community as a whole. You have no respect yourself for others yet seem to expect respect from others because of mods you have made? Yeah....

 

Once again, EPOCH has STOPPED using your mods, so you can now leave this forums in peace!