Gender Inequality?

[OrLoK 16182]

Swift editing Elf. Im glad you changed that, Keep it on topic.

 

L

[mercules 1290]

I think it's important that you read the OP, you will see that Applejaxc does not want this to be a game feature.

 

Otherwise, he is correct about the differences in male and female physiology. Males naturally have higher muscle and bone density, and narrower hips which makes us more efficient runners. Nobody's saying women aren't capable of being athletic or strong regardless of those differences. But men are both physically and psychologically more well suited towards violent lifestyles.

 

And actually, it's our hands which make us incredibly capable. The hands came first. The intelligence followed. Without hands, ancient men would never have been able to fashion specialized tools. Without tools, we would not have been able to drastically increase and vary our diet, which ultimately spurred the development of more higher functioning cognitive abilities. Without those tools, without that diet, without hands, we would have never been able to produce written languages like Sanskrit, which eventually developed into phonetic alphabets, which easily allowed the transfer of ideas and so on and so forth. Without hands, you would have never been able to type that message in the first place.

 

If humans had hooves we would be just as "dumb" as cows.

 

Oh I agree with you on fine manipulators allowing for our intelligence, that is a very likely cause and result, but there is some debate as dolphins are very intelligent animals but have no fine manipulators. 

Now, traditionally men fight because in fighting you usually lose people even when victorious. Now 3 men and 10 women can create a 30 babies in a short amount of time with a bit of genetic diversity while 10 men and 3 women will take a lot longer to get the same 30 babies. So our social structure has influenced the gender roles in a large way. Same thing with hunting and gathering. Hunting is more dangerous than gathering so you send the more EXPENDABLE yet capable members of the society or a bonded pair out to hunt. Add into that the mother could provide milk for the very young while a father could not and you have that reinforced at least for the first year or two. 

 

 

Yes, some physical differences make men better at physical confrontation but I wouldn't say psychologically that our physical differences have, I would say that socially we have developed most males psychological make-up in more physically aggressive directions.

[Cormyr 39]

I totally disagree. Actually I couldn't disagree more.

 

Sure, a level up system like in Skyrim or similar would be ridicilous and immersion breaking. But a system that allows you to progress, to learn things and to improve your skill by surviving in the world should be a given. I don't even think there is a discussion needed, because a survival game without the most elementary survival aspect is to me no survival game.

That is:

Training your skill. In DayZ right now you are a super hero. You know everything, you are capable of doing everything and there is no chance for you to fail. You know how to aim perfectly, you know how to repair a car, a helicopter, you are even more skilled than a surgeon, you are the perfect human. And if you die, there is another perfect human, exactly as you, that will just replace you.

I mean how is this even possible? How can a normal avarage citizen be able to do all these things from day one? This is just ridicilous.

If you are no mechanic you are not able to repair a car just like that. If you are no surgeon you are not able to treat a wound perfectly within seconds. If you aren't a trained military sniper you won't be able to use a sniper without any problems.

Many of these things are skills you will equire while you survive. Hell, that is what survival is all about! To adapt, to learn how to survive.

 

You tell me DayZ is about my story. But why would I possibly want to be a super hero? You take away so much of my story if you just do this. I want to create my character while surviving. My character, my story is about surviving, about developing myself. It is not about finding a DMR and shooting zombies or people. It is about my first handcrafted fire, about the first time I successfully repaired a car engine. It is about me getting better.

 

And now let us just look at it from a gameplay perspective. At the moment DayZ is nothing about my character, it is purely about the gear my character wears. My character is worth sh*t. If he dies I will just have another one, the same one. But the weapon I carry, I probably won't find it again so fast. The weapon I carry, the weapon I actually carry to protect my life, the weapon itself is way more worth then my life.

How can you call this a survival game? How can you possibly call a game survival when the weapons are more worth than surviving?

I really don't see the logic. Especially such a system would increase the authenticity of player behaviour. I wouldn't just be focused on finding a weapon, but actually on survival. To not lose my character. To not lose something I worked so hard for. The fear of losing that character will be finally higher than losing that weapon.

 

I am glad you responded to what I said. Because I am in the same boat as you. You put it perfectly, how I would like the game to be. Especially what you said about the weapons. I said what I said because in general, if you mention any kind of leveling the idea gets shot down before it has taken off.

 

I would not want leveling like in the usual RPG (Str, Int..). What I see is, there are a certain things everyone is capable of doing without training (gather berries and water for example), and other things which some might know how to do but others no (like repair a car). So how does one learn? Practice. So anyways, I gtg..   We just have to wait and see, at least for DayZ SA. Maybe DayZ 2 will be different. We shall see..

[bloodiedsimper 16]

My big beef with the female skin, is it pisses me off when I come across a petite, cute little female, in her blue jacket and khakis, expecting Sula's voice, when a big manly voice comes out saying "Hey bro, friendly"

Same goes for kids in full grown man skins... They should really make carl grimes skins for teens on this because that just destroys immersion when I see a full grown adult with the voice of a 10 year old....

[applejaxc 2500]

-snip-

 

Okay, okay...

 

But (just to play Devil's Advocate, I'm not looking to fight you) for the sake of fun:

You slave away on a character that somehow survives for a month. You got a medical dictionary and a guidebook on natural medicine from the Electro hospital, a manual on firearms from the police station, and a guide to cars from the local mechanic. You've slowly taught yourself to hunt animals, set traps, and hide.

 

Bam! helicopter crashes into your tent while you're sleeping, killing you instantly.

 

 

...have fun building back up.

[Wayze 549]

Okay, okay...

 

But (just to play Devil's Advocate, I'm not looking to fight you) for the sake of fun:

You slave away on a character that somehow survives for a month. You got a medical dictionary and a guidebook on natural medicine from the Electro hospital, a manual on firearms from the police station, and a guide to cars from the local mechanic. You've slowly taught yourself to hunt animals, set traps, and hide.

 

Bam! helicopter crashes into your tent while you're sleeping, killing you instantly.

 

 

...have fun building back up.

That is how life rolls. Everyone dies, but atleast even after 500x dying I will have something to do. I will always be able to accomplish more then before.

 

Kind of like in Dark Souls. You die, but as you die your motivation to get your souls back is higher then the frustration of losing them.

[Wisp (DayZ) 19]

I've never been able to understand why gender issues come up so often in the context of DayZ. Granted, there's a large community, and topics of all sorts tend to be discussed, but here's what I don't get:

 

There are much larger, much more important, and much more relevant battlegrounds out there right now for equality. The LGBT and racial equality movements, feminism (the non-radical kind), etc. are all alive and well in the world today, and making incredible strides. There are battlefields out there where advocates like you are desperately needed to support us, and we need all the help we can get, no matter how small.

 

So why, then, spend time discussing gender issues in the context of DayZ itself? Why not make a post in the political section, find an article particularly egregious, and discuss that? If you're truly interested in making people think and changing their minds (because believe me, there are plenty of bigoted individuals around here, mostly due to lack of education) then why phrase your argument as something so irrelevant to the larger issues, and as such, easily dismissable by your opponents on the surface without even getting to the meat and potatoes?

 

If you check out some of the other threads I've used this account to post in, you'll find that there's definitely a battle to be fought here. It's just not about the game itself, in the slightest; but more so about the playerbase.

[applejaxc 2500]

-snip-

Because the point of this thread was to disway an attitude in support of giving men and women different stats in DayZ. It has absolutely nothing to do with a world political view that is trying to be expressed; the undeniable difference between men and women has been noted and established in the thread purely for the sake of argument wholly in the vacuum of the context of the DayZ Standalone. This wasn't an attempt, and shouldn't be considered one, to raise awareness of anything other than a possible error in the upcoming title aforementioned.

[wild_man 4442]

for me is simple

 

make characters random for size and strength

 

example in real life average is guys bigger stronger than womans but is example of womans bigger than some guys

 

there is guys small like jockey and womans big like boxer

 

 

so make most guys bigger stronger but also put few smaller weaker for maximum reality in game

[Wayze 549]

so make most guys bigger stronger but also put few smaller weaker for maximum reality in game

I think, as there will be just one skeleton for players and the fact that clothing would have to be compatible with every single model, this would be way to hard to implement.

 

In the game every female will just look the same, beside the face. The same with male. Everything else would require alot (and I mean ALOT) of work.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Wayze

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

I think, as there will be just one skeleton for players and the fact that clothing would have to be compatible with every single model, this would be way to hard to implement.

 

In the game every female will just look the same, beside the face. The same with male. Everything else would require alot (and I mean ALOT) of work.

^^^^ This, from a practical standpoint you want to recycle as many assets as possible between both genders. There are fancy pieces of tech that allow you more fancy things but they do not come cheap.

[Karmaterror 982]

for me is simple

 

make characters random for size and strength

 

example in real life average is guys bigger stronger than womans but is example of womans bigger than some guys

 

there is guys small like jockey and womans big like boxer

 

 

so make most guys bigger stronger but also put few smaller weaker for maximum reality in game

 

Lol epic pic...This is exactly what I meant in my other post, giving a stat difference between men and women doesn't work. It implies we are all the same, with no regard to the individual.

[foliveira1982@gmail.com 14]

Thing is

 

First, game dont use character strenght, what that means?

All mens have same body

All womans have same body

 

IF and only IF the game can give you the option of choose or adquire more strenght, stamina during the game its possible to see woman more fitted than male characters and doing so capable of carry more weight and run longer.

 

 

[mercules 1290]

So why, then, spend time discussing gender issues in the context of DayZ itself? Why not make a post in the political section, find an article particularly egregious, and discuss that? 

 

Because the people who need to understand this don't go and read those articles? If you don't inject discussions about equality into their everyday lives and thought streams then they just never consider them. Not that you should shove it down their throats at each opportunity, but when the subject comes up even in a round about way you should discuss it. Otherwise some people who would never consider it will never be exposed to it.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Mercules