Gender Inequality?

[applejaxc 2500]

Note: This isn't supposed to be an inflammatory thread in any way, shape, or form. Both men and women have differences that are essential to the survival and continuity of the human race. Both men and women have incredible examples of historical prominence and I don't think one is better than the other. The information I intend to present is 100% factual, and I would appreciate it if everyone refrained making non-constructive remarks as to the differences in genders. Thank you.


That being said:

DayZ is going to pride itself on realism, right? And as we all know, you can choose as to whether you want to be a man or a woman. To date however, Rocket hasn't said anything about how those choices will affect the game besides the purely cosmetic.

 

I don't want there to be a stat difference between genders in the Standalone. I know that isn't realistic, but men having a better carrying capacity etc isn't fun, and I think it's something where fun outways realism.


My suggestion, then, is that next time Rocket has a press statement about the Standalone, he says that men and women will be equal in the stand alone and why. It's a suggestion I've had about a few things; Rocket has said a few things (or hasn't) and I suggest he explains why more often and more thoroughly.

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

Men and women have clear physical differences.

 

This doesn't make them 'unequal' so I don't understand all this alarmism.

[elf cakes 559]

I dont understand this. it's such a tiny issue with regards to the game itself it really doesnt require any thinking into it. and rocket doing a press event to adress it? absolutely ludicrous. he may aswell do a press event showing that white bread and brown bread will have the same stats. it's that little of a deal.

Edited October 21, 2013 by elf cakes

[-Gews- 7443]

Since 99% of players have a Y-chromosone I don't think this will ever be a major issue. I hope we see some version of "Annie" in the SA though.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Note: This isn't supposed to be an inflammatory thread in any way, shape, or form. Both men and women have differences that are essential to the survival and continuity of the human race. Both men and women have incredible examples of historical prominence and I don't think one is better than the other. The information I intend to present is 100% factual, and I would appreciate it if everyone refrained making non-constructive remarks as to the differences in genders. Thank you.

That being said:

DayZ is going to pride itself on realism, right? And as we all know, you can choose as to whether you want to be a man or a woman. To date however, Rocket hasn't said anything about how those choices will affect the game besides the purely cosmetic.

 

I don't want there to be a stat difference between genders in the Standalone. I know that isn't realistic, but men having a better carrying capacity etc isn't fun, and I think it's something where fun outways realism.

My suggestion, then, is that next time Rocket has a press statement about the Standalone, he says that men and women will be equal in the stand alone and why. It's a suggestion I've had about a few things; Rocket has said a few things (or hasn't) and I suggest he explains why more often and more thoroughly.

I've had this debate many times, being sort of in favor of equality. I still believe that the gender inequality is due to a strong cultural bias and that if men and women where raised equally there wouldn't be such  thing.

[callsignBravo (DayZ) 323]

I've had this debate many times, being sort of in favor of equality. I still believe that the gender inequality is due to a strong cultural bias and that if men and women where raised equally there wouldn't be such  thing.

yeah i agree, you see guys steriotype girls and the girsl do it right back although in a diffrent way. Its how we are raised really

[applejaxc 2500]

Men and women have clear physical differences.

 

This doesn't make them 'unequal' so I don't understand all this alarmism.

 

 

I've had this debate many times, being sort of in favor of equality. I still believe that the gender inequality is due to a strong cultural bias and that if men and women where raised equally there wouldn't be such  thing.

 

Scientifically, men have been bred for thousands of years to be the physical worker while women have been bred to bare children. It's not until recently (in the grand scheme of things, so to speak) that women have made a return in their place societally and have been given the power to strengthen themselves. But if men and women were equal physically, we wouldn't have womens' sports and mens' sports, would we?

 

All I'm saying is that though men statistically  are prone to be physically superior (carrying weight, stamina, etc), I don't think it'd be all that much fun for that difference to be observed in the game.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

yeah i agree, you see guys steriotype girls and the girsl do it right back although in a diffrent way. Its how we are raised really

i mean in our society a girl will be gently coerced all her life to be a girl and a boy just the same, boy will be oriented toward physical prowess while the girl will be oriented toward the idea of bearing children. Are men really more muscular, or does the social convention for men encourage a more physical approach to life?

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Scientifically, men have been bred for thousands of years to be the physical worker while women have been bred to bare children. It's not until recently (in the grand scheme of things, so to speak) that women have made a return in their place societally and have been given the power to strengthen themselves. But if men and women were equal physically, we wouldn't have womens' sports and mens' sports, would we?

 

All I'm saying is that though men statistically  are prone to be physically superior (carrying weight, stamina, etc), I don't think it'd be all that much fun for that difference to be observed in the game.

The breeding argument doesnt work tho there is only one chromosome dedicated to sex differenciation and natural selection affect the specie as a whole, generally not one of the two sexes.

 

I just think that stripped down of the cultural bias the gap might disappear, or at least narrow down seriously.

[applejaxc 2500]

i mean in our society a girl will be gently coerced all her life to be a girl and a boy just the same, boy will be oriented toward physical prowess while the girl will be oriented toward the idea of bearing children. Are men really more muscular, or does the social convention for men encourage a more physical approach to life?

 

Thank you.

Anyway, men are more muscular due to society wanting them to be more muscular. I don't meant to offend anyone by bringing up something so contested, but think about Darwin's theory of evolution. Those men who don't become muscular (or rich) don't reproduce, thus the strong have strong children, so on and so forth, slowly creating a gap between men and women.

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

i mean in our society a girl will be gently coerced all her life to be a girl and a boy just the same, boy will be oriented toward physical prowess while the girl will be oriented toward the idea of bearing children. Are men really more muscular, or does the social convention for men encourage a more physical approach to life?

Do you have any understanding of human biology? Males have approxiately 8% more muscle mass than females.

 

The coin can easily be flipped here, you know: Some men want to be female, but can't because of their gender.

[applejaxc 2500]

Do you have any understanding of human biology? Males have approxiately 8% more muscle mass than females.

 

The coin can easily be flipped here, you know: Some men want to be female, but can't because of their gender.

 

"Some fish want to be rocks, but they can't because they're fish."

[TIC 1050]

This is something I haven't seen in a video game and I'm not sure how this would play out but it's definitely different and unique.

 

If this does happen, this could possibly build a possible social class where survivors of different genders can be tasked to other things that the opposite gender cannot do as well.

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

My big beef with the female skin, is it pisses me off when I come across a petite, cute little female, in her blue jacket and khakis, expecting Sula's voice, when a big manly voice comes out saying "Hey bro, friendly".

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Making genders unequal in terms of ability in the game would only prompt players to choose male over female more than they already do. So it's simply not logical to make them unequal.

 

This seems like a non-issue to me.

[applejaxc 2500]

This is something I haven't seen in a video game and I'm not sure how this would play out but it's definitely different and unique.

 

If this does happen, this could possibly build a possible social class where survivors of different genders can be tasked to other things that the opposite gender cannot do as well.

 

...? Like, what for example? Only women can make sandwiches? I'm not sure what you're trying to market.

My big beef with the female skin, is it pisses me off when I come across a petite, cute little female, in her blue jacket and khakis, expecting Sula's voice, when a big manly voice comes out saying "Hey bro, friendly".

 

There's a reason KoS is a ting.

Making genders unequal in terms of ability in the game would only prompt players to choose male over female more than they already do. So it's simply not logical to make them unequal.

 

This seems like a non-issue to me.

It isn't a non-issue; there have been plenty of posts suggesting that men and women by different statistics wise. And a lot of people choose female "for the lols" or so they're less likely to be shot at immediately.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

It isn't a non-issue; there have been plenty of posts suggesting that men and women by different statistics wise. And a lot of people choose female "for the lols" or so they're less likely to be shot at immediately.

 

Okay, but just because people suggested it doesn't mean it's going to happen. I just don't get it. The devs are clearly putting in lots of time and effort to create female player models, along with clothing models and animations. By making them unequal, they will in turn be negating their own hard work by encouraging players to choose males over females.

 

I really don't see why it matters why a player chooses a female model. It's completely irrelevant. While I agree that realistically women are generally not as strong as men, I kind of have to agree with Kyrah on this one. I am adamantly against making women weaker in the game. I have met some extremely active and physically fit women who could probably kick my ass if they wanted to. While you're at it, every player should have a randomized stature and weight. Just because you are a man does NOT guarantee that you are automatically "physically superior." There are lots of scrawny men out there. I have severe asthma from birth (really). Where do I fit into your little "evolutionary model" of gender?

 

Also, aside from the physical differences, there are psychological differences between men and women. Statistically, men are more prone to violence. Does that mean female characters should be forced to have slower reaction times or slower fire rates with weapons? Absolutely not. A level playing field is the only acceptable playing field. The devs really don't have to explain themselves for that... I think the people who made those suggestions will still play the game regardless.

 

Besides, I learned a long time ago not to trust a woman just because she's a woman. So I'll gladly mow down a bitch in Elektro if I honestly think "she" is going to kill me.

Edited October 21, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[applejaxc 2500]

Okay, but just because people suggested it doesn't mean it's going to happen. I just don't get it. The devs are clearly putting in lots of time and effort to create female player models, along with clothing models and animations. By making them unequal, they will in turn be negating their own hard work by encouraging players to choose males over females.

 

I really don't see why it matters why a player chooses a female model. It's completely irrelevant. While I agree that realistically women are generally not as strong as men, I kind of have to agree with Kyrah on this one. I am adamantly against making women weaker in the game. I have met some extremely active and physically fit women who could probably kick my ass if they wanted to. While you're at it, every player should have a randomized stature and weight. Just because you are a man does NOT guarantee that you are automatically "physically superior." There are lots of scrawny men out there. I have severe asthma from birth (really). Where do I fit into your little "evolutionary model" of gender?

 

Also, aside from the physical differences, there are psychological differences between men and women. Statistically, men are more prone to violence. Does that mean female characters should be forced to have slower reaction times or slower fire rates with weapons? Absolutely not. A level playing field is the only acceptable playing field. The devs really don't have to explain themselves for that... I think the people who made those suggestions will still play the game regardless.

 

Besides, I learned a long time ago not to trust a woman just because she's a woman. So I'll gladly mow down a bitch in Elektro if I honestly think "she" is going to kill me.

 

I'm concerned they might do it for realism. I don't think they should. That's the whole point of the thread.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I know, I'm not attacking you, I'm just explaining why I don't find it necessary for the devs to explain themselves on this one. I think the people who want this are extremely few in number and at the end of the day they are just gonna have to deal with it.

[Bludy 324]

do not reproduce ingame, differences that are evident in real life, could be better for the game balance.

 

being gender a pure aesthetic feature and a choice for female players.

 

/thread

[AP_Norris 1017]

do not reproduce ingame, differences that are evident in real life, could be better for the game balance.

 

being gender a pure aesthetic feature and a choice for female players.

 

/thread

To stops male characters being female and females being male you should have to take a picture of your junk and send it to Rocket.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Thank you.

Anyway, men are more muscular due to society wanting them to be more muscular. I don't meant to offend anyone by bringing up something so contested, but think about Darwin's theory of evolution. Those men who don't become muscular (or rich) don't reproduce, thus the strong have strong children, so on and so forth, slowly creating a gap between men and women.

 

Survival of the fittest doesn't mean the one with the most muscle mass... The choice of words in this case is very wrong. It should mean the survival of the most adaptable. Otherwise humans would have gone extinct by now considering they are one of the weakest mammals.

[applejaxc 2500]

Survival of the fittest doesn't mean the one with the most muscle mass... The choice of words in this case is very wrong. It should mean the survival of the most adaptable. Otherwise humans would have gone extinct by now considering they are one of the weakest mammals.

 

Wow you really, really missed the point of that...

 

Survival of the fittest, for humans, includes overcoming social challenges as much as physical ones. Just because you reach an age that allows you to produce sperm/carry and birth eggs doesn't mean you're going to reproduce, especially not if no one in the world finds you attractive. We're taught from day-1 in most first world countries that fit, muscular men belong to thin, large-chested women. Because of this, men predisposed to developing that way and women predisposed to developing that way have a higher chance of reproducing children that will go on to have their own children, so on and so forth. Several generations of this for women, and thousands of years for men, means that our gene pool is muscular-centric and breastacular-centric respectively, thusly men are phsyically superior to women. It's the same principles as, say, breeding animals: If you only let the strong horses have babies, then there will only be strong horse babies.

 

The point of the thread is that despite the proven physical superiority of men, I don't want the Standalone to have a difference in carrying weight/stamina between men and women.

[Wayze 549]

Some people... ^^

 

Ofcourse women are different from men, regarding to their body. Women are not able to build as much muscles as men do, that is not some cultural difference, it is a biological difference. Just look at body builders.

 

In my country there is no single woman in the military special forces, even though they are allowed to. This is not because these women were raised up wrong, if they would they wouldn't even try to be a part of it, right? No, these women have a very, very hard time to compete with men regarding to the extreme conditions which require not only a very strong mental state, but also a very specialised body. Carry 30kg on your back + 20kg equipment  and go for a marsh, a whole day.

After that, go sprint and be an athlet. This is something that is very hard to accomplish as a women. Sure the society is not making this easier, but also the biological foundation is making it almost impossible, atleast way harder for them then for men.

That is why, in my country, they are planning to prepare special training for women who want to attempt special forces. If it works or not, we'll see.

 

Every biologist will tell you the diffrences between female and male. They are present, but that does not mean that women are less worth then men. It just means that evolution has found this way of being as the best way to survive.

How women and men will look like in 20.000 years, if mankind will survive that long, is a whole other topic. But you cannot change, without science, something that nature spent hundrets of thousands years for, atleast not within 100 years.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Wayze

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Wow you really, really missed the point of that...

 

Survival of the fittest, for humans, includes overcoming social challenges as much as physical ones. Just because you reach an age that allows you to produce sperm/carry and birth eggs doesn't mean you're going to reproduce, especially not if no one in the world finds you attractive. We're taught from day-1 in most first world countries that fit, muscular men belong to thin, large-chested women. Because of this, men predisposed to developing that way and women predisposed to developing that way have a higher chance of reproducing children that will go on to have their own children, so on and so forth. Several generations of this for women, and thousands of years for men, means that our gene pool is muscular-centric and breastacular-centric respectively, thusly men are phsyically superior to women. It's the same principles as, say, breeding animals: If you only let the strong horses have babies, then there will only be strong horse babies.

 

The point of the thread is that despite the proven physical superiority of men, I don't want the Standalone to have a difference in carrying weight/stamina between men and women.

Agreed, what i mean is that i do not believe in a completely genetic reason for the difference, male and female athletes have a completely different approach to their sport, which might affect performances.

 

But yeah this kind of differenciation is not interesting, and even if it turns out that male characters themselve can't do some things as well as female characters, it's just reenforcing gender stereotypes for no good reason.