STANDALONE: give value to life and REDUCE KoS!

[wild_man 4442]

but.....but....eight hours.  That is almost meh whole day.  There is cruel then there is time consuming.  Can't you make it four hours?  

 

 

is depend what result you looking ;)

 

more time is take more value for character less KoS happen B)

 

me I say make it 3 minute see you in elektro bitch :thumbsup: :ph34r:

[SteelKnife 25]

I find this to be a great idea.

[Wayze 549]

advantage for be strong and fit guy

 

you will be more strong so aim heavy gun easier

 

you run faster

 

you carry heavy backpack more distance less rest

 

you swim better

 

you climb ladder better

 

you do thing like fix car quicker

 

recover faster from infection

 

recover faster from gunshot injury

 

only small change but after time all is adding up for big difference, point is all guys WILL WANT FAST STRONG FIT character :thumbsup:  :D

 

if you put 6 - 10 hour gameplay for achieve this when you are 75% - 100% idea of being 20% or whatever for fresh spawn make you care about dying

 

right now NOBODY CARE ABOUT DYING  :o

 

only care about gear, is make game comedy of die run to body start again in better way :huh:

 

and if guys value character they think again before start pvP if they don't need

 

for me is no negative for this idea ONLY POSITIVE for all player B)

So, being "strong" means nothing else than "pussy"-mode? Hm, I can survive without it aswell... nothing to it if I am slower. No it is even better so I can shot other players and showing them that I can do it without being superman. ;)

 

Exactly, right now people just care about the loot. But there is no way that the little attributes you listed up will change that. You know, everyone who survives longer will have these attributes. I am nothing special, if I lose it well then it is ok. It is not like the game is more enjoyable when being a superman, and more importantly I am able to do everything I did before even if I am a fresh spawn. There is not much difference between a fresh spawn and a surviving veteran.

Like I said I really don't think that "being stronger" will be enough to give the character any value. I would just say "F*ck it, I better keep my M4, the worst what happens is that I die, a few hours and I am back to strenght again, but I searched a freaking week for this M4".

 

Look at the Walking Dead or any other book or movie with survival elements. Do the characters get stronger over time? Nope, they learn. They learn how to aim, how to treat themselfs, how to fix a fence or a car. The real value of a life is being able to do something, not being able to do something faster.

 

 

 

If effort > results then people tend to ignore the results. You said you would need 8 hours of gameplay to reach "superman"-status. But is it worth the time? We all know that at some point we will die anyway. At some point every single of these "superman"-attributes will be gone. Why would I bother being 8 hours super careful just to be a superman? What enjoyment will it bring?

The problem with the superman-mode is that doing something faster is just not enough. How much faster can you even climb a latter without it being total unrealistic? How much faster can you sprint then a normal character? How much better can you aim?

Even if you do everything faster, you will just do it slightly faster. It is not like you can climb a latter twice as fast as a normal person, this is just impossible. You will maybe be 1.4 times faster, which does not seem much and indeed it isn't. In what way will this "being faster in everything" help me? I have time to repair a car and I don't need to be able to swim like an athlet. All these things are just some additions they are surely no worth 8 hours of gameplay, especially knowing that you will all lose them at some point. After playing the game 100 hours you won't even bother anymore. Sure, the attributes are cool, but in these 100 hours you probably have found like 2-3 M4 maximum. But you were over ten times a "superman". Is the superman status more worth then the M4?

Nope.

No matter how much faster you are, being a superman is no real addition to your character. You can do everything what a superman is able to do, just not as fast enough. And as you were playing as a fresh spawn so much, you just get used to it.

 

If you want to add a real value to a player you have to give a character something that makes him special. For example:

If you are a freshspawn your repairing skills are awful, you are able to repair a bike, but repairing a car is a much more difficult task. There is a high chance that the items break.

But as you develope your character, the more you repair things, the better you get in repairing. So after repairing 50 things you will be able to repair a car properly. Not faster, properly.

If you die all the progress is lost. You will have to spent hours and hours again to be able to repair a car. Or you just find another player who is able to do that.

Now, many people don't like that idea. But I really don't get why. DayZ is a authentic survival game and what is more authentic then developing skills? This is one of the most important parts in a survival scenario. We all saw it for example in Cast Away, the film where Tom Hanks gets stranded on an island. At the beginning he was awful. He was not able to build a fire or constructing a home. But he developed as every other human being would. He learned, he skilled himself. Without this he would not be able to survive. And believe me, it is not juste knowladge that is important. Repairing a car does not only require knowladge, but also skill. You cannot do that in real life just with an instruction, it would be way to hard.

 

Additionally you could even add a value to fresh spawn characters. Now you ask yourself, why would I even bother to survive if I spawned in a bad position? But what if your starting character has a random chance of having some of these skills developed? What if your starting character is really good in repairing cars? How you want to proof it? You go out there and try...

This would maybe highly decrease the suicide attemptions of fresh spawn players. Even a starting character could have a high value and as long as you don't play hours with him you won't even notice. So you are kind of forced to play with him.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Wayze

[wild_man 4442]

So, being "strong" means nothing else than "pussy"-mode? Hm, I can survive without it aswell... nothing to it if I am slower. No it is even better so I can shot other players and showing them that I can do it without being superman. ;)

 

 

NO >:(

 

you don't understand what I say

 

when you are STRONG/FIT/FULL HEALTH is normal like fresh spawn NOW :D

 

but when you die respawn is less strong/fast etc

 

aim heavy gun is hard for you :P

 

you swim slow ;)

  

run far with heavy things not possible :D

 

so is not pussy mode is just you need to build for get normal way

 

NO SUPER POWER, but fresh spawn is less for everything 

 

this make die shit thing and guys stop to kill self because is like miracle cure for them like now is :thumbsup:  :rolleyes:

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

You know what, I joined this thread expecting some kind of terrible half-troll, but this is a genuinely good idea with some potential mileage, so I apologies KoS for judging your post before reading. :P

 

My one concern is that as good a system as this could be, it's going to cause a big ramp-up in the frustration factor when you do get randomly killed by a KoS player - if you've just spend multiple hours (I do feel 8 is a little extreme) getting yourself to a point where you're in a position to be able to start doing what you like rather than just trying to stay alive, then you get shot in the face by some sup3r-pr0 snypah for being unlucky enough to walk round the wrong corner, that's a LOT of time you've just had thrown down the toilet.

 

I know DayZ isn't a gentle hand-holding kind of game, and I know that you want to encourage survival, but on the same note, you don't want to give the player reasons to say 'fuck it, I'm not going to spend another 8 hours doing all that just so I can die instantly again' and quit - however, some aspect of this could be used with the DESPERATELY needed reduction of ammo/weapons, and would probably work very well at reducing the effectiveness of the current KoS 'spawn, run to military loot, run and gun, die, repeat' playstyle.

[Wayze 549]

NO > :(

 

you don't understand what I say

 

when you are STRONG/FIT/FULL HEALTH is normal like fresh spawn NOW :D

 

but when you die respawn is less strong/fast etc

 

aim heavy gun is hard for you :P

 

you swim slow ;)

  

run far with heavy things not possible :D

 

so is not pussy mode is just you need to build for get normal way

 

NO SUPER POWER, but fresh spawn is less for everything 

 

this make die shit thing and guys stop to kill self because is like miracle cure for them like now is :thumbsup:  :rolleyes:

Yes, but you don't need all these things. Heavy guns will be as rare as... I don't know there is nothing as rare in the mod. It will be probably 50x rarer than an DMR one year ago in the vanilla mod. It will be so f*cking rare that you probably won't find one in two months.

Swimming slow is also no problem because I never swim.

Run far with heavy things, well you need these heavy things first before you can even do that. So all these things are totally unneccessery and if I die it is no problem to gain these attributes back.

 

However I have still no real value. A weapon, even a pistole is still way more worth then my life. And this is just wrong. Just answere this questions please:

Do you carry a weapon to live or do you live to carry a weapon?

 

We all know the answere, if we are honest. And this is the reason why there even is KoS. This is the reason why it will always have KoS, if the devs don't do anything against it. And this is the reason why there never was and never will be authentic player behaviour.

[wild_man 4442]

if weapon is more value for you than 8 - 10 hour gameplay for good health player no die I feel sad for you :(

 

I think you don't have logic argue, I like what you write but is not make sense against my idea :huh:

 

nobody say this idea STOP KoS

 

NOTHING STOP KoS

 

but this idea for sure REDUCE KoS :thumbsup:  B)

Edited October 16, 2013 by KoS

[wild_man 4442]

You know what, I joined this thread expecting some kind of terrible half-troll, but this is a genuinely good idea with some potential mileage, so I apologies KoS for judging your post before reading. :P

 

My one concern is that as good a system as this could be, it's going to cause a big ramp-up in the frustration factor when you do get randomly killed by a KoS player - if you've just spend multiple hours (I do feel 8 is a little extreme) getting yourself to a point where you're in a position to be able to start doing what you like rather than just trying to stay alive, then you get shot in the face by some sup3r-pr0 snypah for being unlucky enough to walk round the wrong corner, that's a LOT of time you've just had thrown down the toilet.

 

I know DayZ isn't a gentle hand-holding kind of game, and I know that you want to encourage survival, but on the same note, you don't want to give the player reasons to say 'fuck it, I'm not going to spend another 8 hours doing all that just so I can die instantly again' and quit - however, some aspect of this could be used with the DESPERATELY needed reduction of ammo/weapons, and would probably work very well at reducing the effectiveness of the current KoS 'spawn, run to military loot, run and gun, die, repeat' playstyle.

 

I agree

 

this give death real pain :o

 

but for me is worth for improve game and make guys value more life and try SURVIVE in survival simulate game

 

if you die from KoS player is ahit luck for you but is bonus for you all KoS player thing 2 times before attack

 

not like now where they gamble maybe die, no problem respawn find gun continue same like before :|

Edited October 16, 2013 by KoS

[Wayze 549]

if weapon is more value for you than 8 - 10 hour gameplay for good health player no die I feel sad for you :(

 

I think you don't have logic argue, I like what you write but is not make sense against my idea :huh:

 

nobody say this idea STOP KoS

 

NOTHING STOP KoS

 

but this idea for sure REDUCE KoS :thumbsup:  B)

You lie if you tell me that a weapon that you have to search 100h+ for (to find this weapon the first time) is less worth to you then a life that took you just 8 hours. I don't think that you have the right idea about the SA, and how rare weapons and ammo will be. There won't be KoS because there won't be even enough weapons to do it. Pistols will most likely be as rare as AS50s in the Mod. One full mag for the right pistole as rare as a DMR.

Finding a weapon which you can even use for KoS will be very, very time consuming. This is exactly the reason why people won't kill for fun anymore. It will just be nonsense. I mean you will need like 20 hours just to have an M4. And then? You don't have ammo... what are you going to do? Shot with an empty gun?

Nope, you search hours and hours juste to find a few mags, a few rounds. And what are you going to do with them? Go and hunt players? Go do things that are very, very dangerous? Do things that could cause your death, that could take away something that took you 20h+ to obtain?

 

And now, I ask you again. Is you life more worth to you then the M4? Would you seriously give the M4 a bandit if you were in a situation where you have no chance? Wouldn't you try to risk your life to safe that weapon?

 

I don't believe you if the answere is no. ^^

[wild_man 4442]

You lie if you tell me that a weapon that you have to search 100h+ for (to find this weapon the first time) is less worth to you then a life that took you just 8 hours. I don't think that you have the right idea about the SA, and how rare weapons and ammo will be. There won't be KoS because there won't be even enough weapons to do it. Pistols will most likely be as rare as AS50s in the Mod. One full mag for the right pistole as rare as a DMR.

Finding a weapon which you can even use for KoS will be very, very time consuming. This is exactly the reason why people won't kill for fun anymore. It will just be nonsense. I mean you will need like 20 hours just to have an M4. And then? You don't have ammo... what are you going to do? Shot with an empty gun?

Nope, you search hours and hours juste to find a few mags, a few rounds. And what are you going to do with them? Go and hunt players? Go do things that are very, very dangerous? Do things that could cause your death, that could take away something that took you 20h+ to obtain?

 

And now, I ask you again. Is you life more worth to you then the M4? Would you seriously give the M4 a bandit if you were in a situation where you have no chance? Wouldn't you try to risk your life to safe that weapon?

 

I don't believe you if the answere is no. ^^

 

I understand your point but is not taking away anything from my idea

 

what you say is same NOW with current system

 

is not connect to my suggestion :huh:

 

only difference is if you die with my idea YOU WILL BE ANGRY if you lose high health character >:(

 

now you die is like 'oh fuck, I need run from kamenka to loot my body...never mind, is ok, I have now extra blood' :P

 

if I have character who I manage to 100% health with careful eat and avoid infection etc and I die I feel more angry than lose any gun

 

because I DONT LOVE MY GEAR, is just stuff easy coning easy going :rolleyes:

 

but with new system I suggest 100% health is near impossible for achieve because always something like zed attack or food poison or something to slow down progress

 

find gun is lottery :P

Edited October 16, 2013 by KoS

[Wayze 549]

but with new system I suggest 100% health is near impossible for achieve because always something like zed attack or food poison or something to slow down progress

 

Exactly, so why should we even bother?

[wild_man 4442]

Exactly, so why should we even bother?

 

 

 

 

if you don't see benefit of giving value to character life and reward for survive long time and motivation for guys avoid pvP for no reason you are maybe troll or blind to sense :huh:

 

whatever is i don't argue more with you :D

  

you doing this also on 3rd person/1st person thread :huh:

 

you decide you going against, you don't have logic argue you just say opposite and after when guys make good logic explain you ignore and repeat empty point of view

 

I put you now on ignore list so continue if you want but I see nothing more from you :|

[Wayze 549]

if you don't see benefit of giving value to character life and reward for survive long time and motivation for guys avoid pvP for no reason you are maybe troll or blind to sense :huh:

 

whatever is i don't argue more with you :D

  

you doing this also on 3rd person/1st person thread :huh:

 

you decide you going against, you don't have logic argue you just say opposite and after when guys make good logic explain you ignore and repeat empty point of view

 

I put you now on ignore list so continue if you want but I see nothing more from you :|

I just wrote probably 500 words+ that supports my argumentation. You just wrote the same things over and over again and call my explanation unlogical. xD

 

Well, alright. People who call others trolls just because they have a different opinion probably do not going to like my posts. But you should always concider, that there is a possibility that your theories are wrong. Sure, mine could be wrong, too. But I do not call people trolls who see things from different angles. And actually I thought this forum was to discuss and not to put people on the ignore list if it gets unpleasent.

 

Anyway, was a good time with you KoS. ^^ (yes I know he won't read this)

[justin1311 1]

I think the only way to reduce KoS in any permadeath game is to make the permadeath either more limited (to only losing everything but equipped weapons and maybe your empty backpack) or remove it entirely. Then people would kill each other less because you'd only kill someone if you needed food or ammo most of the time. Of course that would be server based, not changed entirely within the game itself (so permadeath servers would still exist), but that sounds like fun to literally no DayZ players besides myself. So I'm not really sure how it can be done. If you see a guy with something good and you're an average player, you're going to kill him and take his stuff. That's just how it goes for now.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Aralvar

[enforcer1975 1111]

I think the only way to reduce KoS in any permadeath game is to make the permadeath either more limited (to only losing everything but equipped weapons and maybe your empty backpack) or remove it entirely. Then people would kill each other less because you'd only kill someone if you needed food or ammo most of the time. Of course that would be server based, not changed entirely within the game itself (so permadeath servers would still exist), but that sounds like fun to literally no DayZ players besides myself. So I'm not really sure how it can be done. If you see a guy with something good and you're an average player, you're going to kill him and take his stuff. That's just how it goes for now.

 

To lessen the negative outcome of an event is not the goal of DayZ, unfortunately because you can respawn on the same server you can get your gear back. Leaving equipment will not reduce KoS imo since you entitle them to KoS in giving them their equipment back because that's what they want anyway besides shooting other players. You will never be able to reduce KoS from a nuisance to casual events because the players are here and they won't change their gameplay unless you make them. And that's where "don't tell me how to play" comes into play. Rockets has to admit someday that he has to do something against this problem if it still occurs in the SA or else he will lose a lot of his reputation of which he already lost a lot imo. Let's see how he wants to make people play his way, maybe it will be the same as with Origins, so far i've read it's frowned upon as a "less loot version" of Taviana.

[wild_man 4442]

I am KoS player B)

 

I know for sure if idea like this one was put in dayz it affect my play style ;)

 

I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE, I KoS LESS IF THIS IDEA HAPPEN :thumbsup:  :rolleyes:

[Forgewolf 70]

I actually like the idea of starting out having a goal.. Not to just collect gear, but to find and treat the condition my character is suffering from.

[Karmaterror 982]

Id like to see the start a lot harder, making medical needs out weigh guns and ammo at first. But as for stopping KoS, im not sure... That's because with it as it is, someone might risk some loot to talk to someone, however if they have had to spend hours getting fit, then I think they more likely to just snipe ya before they go into town rather than risk there healthy toon to a backstab or firefight.

[Wayze 549]

To lessen the negative outcome of an event is not the goal of DayZ, unfortunately because you can respawn on the same server you can get your gear back. Leaving equipment will not reduce KoS imo since you entitle them to KoS in giving them their equipment back because that's what they want anyway besides shooting other players. You will never be able to reduce KoS from a nuisance to casual events because the players are here and they won't change their gameplay unless you make them. And that's where "don't tell me how to play" comes into play. Rockets has to admit someday that he has to do something against this problem if it still occurs in the SA or else he will lose a lot of his reputation of which he already lost a lot imo. Let's see how he wants to make people play his way, maybe it will be the same as with Origins, so far i've read it's frowned upon as a "less loot version" of Taviana.

The only thing to reduce KoS is to make players valuable for each other. No matter how much I will lose after death or how hard it is to survive, if another player has no value to me and if I can do everything I want without him, there is no reason to risk my life for him.

 

In my opinion, like I said, the only way to make a player valuable is to give him the oppurtunity to develope certain skills which others do not have. For example:

If I want a car repaired, but I am not skilled in repairing, and it would take hours and hours to successfully repair that car, I would have to go and find someone with that ability. I cannot just shot everyone on sight. I have to sneak up on them and ask if they help me. I could offer them ammo or the abilities I equired.

 

Making death more painful then before is not a way to reduce KoS, in fact people will be even more afraid and will never interact friendly. Life has just no value for the people and as long as this is the case you cannot expect the players to be authentic. They will hunt others just for fun, because they can.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Wayze

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

The only thing to reduce KoS is to make players valuable for each other. No matter how much I will lose after death or how hard it is to survive, if another player has no value to me and if I can do everything I want without him, there is no reason to risk my life for him.

 

In my opinion, like I said, the only way to make a player valuable is to give him the oppurtunity to develope certain skills which others do not have. For example:

If I want a car repaired, but I am not skilled in repairing, and it would take hours and hours to successfully repair that car, I would have to go and find someone with that ability. I cannot just shot everyone on sight. I have to sneak up on them and ask if they help me. I could offer them ammo or the abilities I equired.

 

Making death more painful then before is not a way to reduce KoS, in fact people will be even more afraid and will never interact friendly. Life has just no value for the people and as long as this is the case you cannot expect the players to be authentic. They will hunt others just for fun, because they can.

Option two, screw skills and instead make actions that require two players to be performed no matter what.

[AP_Norris 1018]

I would have to argue with u this time KOS I think the value of life is enough, it is game after all.

Meant to be fun, not devastating.

[Wayze 549]

Option two, screw skills and instead make actions that require two players to be performed no matter what.

And what would possibly require two persons? Let's stay authentic...

 

Additionally you won't solve KoS with "two player performance" or the attributtes KoS suggested. There is got to be something that makes my character valuable to me, so that he is more valuable then my weapon. Otherwise my goal in the game is simply to find weapons.

Ask yourself, what is your main goal when you currently start with DayZ? Is it to survive? Is it to help others? Probably the first priority is to get a good weapon. After a while, you want more. A better weapon, maybe a car, maybe a heli. But what do you need all these things for? To survive? No, you could easily survive without. You collect all these valuable things, in the end, to kill other players. May it be bandits or other survivors. Your life is worth nothing, and since your character is just a puppet you have no other goal then having fun. Which means in 99% of the cases action. Which means killing players. Which means unmotivated KoS. Which also means totaly unauthentic player behaviour.

 

A survival game where you fear death because of losing your weapon, is ironicly no survival game. You have to give the life another purpose, I simply don't see any other solution then character development. I mean, what do people in real life? They skill themselves. They draw until they master it, they play football until they master it, they run marathons until they master it, they play games until they master it. Why would you take that feeling and motivation of progress from a game? In real life it is one of the most essential elements of motivation for life. Hell, many people even see in those things the purpose of life.

 

I want DayZ to be a survival game. I want my character to start as a nobody, surviving in the harsh world and in the end becoming a veteran. Someone who is capable of things, things he teached himself. Without this DayZ is not even close to authentic, afterall this is the main aspect of survival. Learning...

Edited October 22, 2013 by Wayze

[wild_man 4442]

I would have to argue with u this time KOS I think the value of life is enough, it is game after all.

Meant to be fun, not devastating.

 

 

i think gaming universe have room for one game with feeling of pure devastated after death :thumbsup: