Why We Need A Release Date

[Dr. Goner 661]

the law may stand up but people forget the whole idea of making money :lol:

 

 

all projects have a end date or release date planned. you need to hit targets and you need to sell your product to make money. most often games are launched in periods of high sales potential so the next big window is halloween then christmas. christmas is the best selling period in videogames fullstop. whether whats achievable hits the window of sales may govern how and when its released. steam may play a part in this. without all the facts its all a load of guess work. :)

Plus, post ARMA 3 release. I mean, I bought it for the wait.

[Rage VG 4033]

First off, as Inception. has said, people will still complain even with a release date. You'll see people posting about why the "Sudden release date shows the game is rushed", people complaining that being forced into a release date means they've given in to pressure and are disappointed, people claiming that DayZ is still somehow a scam and this release date is just another "part of the plan"... I think you get my point.

Secondly, Whilst it is true that you are more likely to do something faster if you set yourself a shorter deadline, but do you know what you'll get alongside that faster completion time? Stress. Tonnes of it. And in this situation, there is NO need to have it done soon, there's no real benefit to the team to get out out early in place of working on it, it's simply the impatience of others that is causing this need for a release date. I would imagine the team is small, so stressing them out is only going to cause complications, for no gain.

[Max Planck 7174]

'Parkinson's Law' was meant to be satire.

Also, unless you have empirical evidence, it has not been scientifically proven.

[SmashT 10907]

Yeah Science, Bitch

[dgeesio 1034]

magnets YO !

 

Edited September 18, 2013 by dgeesio

[oldfossil 59]

I can't understand the "problem" issued by the release date.

You haven't payed anything to play the mod (excepted for the basic game outfit of course) which moreover is constantly updated, so keep playing the mod and taste the waiting until the SA will be out (I don't believe it will happen before the end of the year, maybe close to it).

Keep your souls quiet your guns cocked & planty of beans in your backpack.

 

...and stay away from unknown players...

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I think I'm missing something here.  Or maybe it's just gone over my head.

 

Having deadlines and issuing a release date to the public are two entirely separate things.  They have internal deadlines and they've also opted not to make a release date public yet.

 

What was your point again?

 

I can't help but feel this thread should be entitled "Why I need a release date" and then maybe you could elaborate on that.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Fraggle

[dgeesio 1034]

I being the keyword ;)

[Rekli 995]

It's Parkinson's law. Basically you'll use whatever time you define for a task to complete the task. If you give yourself a week to write a report it will take a week. If you give yourself two days you will crank it out in two days. There's a shit ton of science to back it up. I assumed people would be familiar with it. Here's a link:

 

Ah! Just google Parkinson't Law. The link to the wiki has an underscore in it so it won't take you directly there. Sorry.

 

Here's a nice link about how to use it to your advantage, Dean should read this:

 

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/productivity/how-to-use-parkinsons-law-to-your-advantage.html

Wow that would work if  game breaking changes/bugs can come from nowhere at anytime & that Parkinson's law wasn't utter bullshit....so yeah, no.

Edited September 18, 2013 by RekliSnipez

[Zombie Jesus 723]

I do not deserve nor need a release date, but the last devblog was somewhat of a bummer because it still feels as though the project is far from complete. Zombies have to be built from the ground up and the network bubble architecture is still not finished. Asking for a release date now seems like a lost cause, any answer given will probably not make people happy because I am thinking multiple months not weeks.

Others have pointed out that public dates and internal milestones are two separate concepts, I doubt that the company motto is "it is done when it is done" for the exact reasons Dr. Gonzo has pointed out. That would be a rudderless ship and would be a huge failure in effective leadership, but the public being unaware of these internal deadlines is par for the course.

At the beginning of Summer I thought the holiday season was a realistic target, now I think we will be lucky to see it before 2013 ends. It is what it is, patience is the name of the game and anything else will just lead to frustration so what is the point.

Edit: All of the people who think the concept presented is "bullshit" need to get a dose of the real world. People do work far more effectively and efficiently when given deadlines and oversight.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Zombie Jesus

[mercules 1290]

It's Parkinson's law. Basically you'll use whatever time you define for a task to complete the task. If you give yourself a week to write a report it will take a week. If you give yourself two days you will crank it out in two days. There's a shit ton of science to back it up. I assumed people would be familiar with it. Here's a link:

 

Ah! Just google Parkinson't Law. The link to the wiki has an underscore in it so it won't take you directly there. Sorry.

 

Here's a nice link about how to use it to your advantage, Dean should read this:

 

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/productivity/how-to-use-parkinsons-law-to-your-advantage.html

 

 

I would appreciate what you say if it was accurate as far a science is confirmed but it's just not the case. Your logic is flawed, read about Parkinson's Law. Seriously people if you want to comment on the big boy topics get informed.

 

 

This seems like an opportunity for learning in your case, but I understand the urge to stay ignorant. I state facts backed up by science and you say "my velociraptor is getting hungry". Seems fitting here. Also, GIFs in the signature are annoying just to let you in on a little secret.

 

I think you are confusing an External Release Date with not having any sort of deadlines. I am certain internally they have each laid out what will be completed before the next time they compile the code and attempt to stick to those. What is happening though is they are not telling us because frankly we really don't need to know. 

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I think a lot of peoples frustration boils down the fact that they're still clinging on to the release date from before Xmas and they see every day since then as another delay despite that release date being for an entirely different project (ported mod) as explained at length in the subsequent devblogs.

 

If you can mentally adjust to realise it's just a normal game in development it really helps ease the wait.  Instead of then seeing every devblog as a load of bullshit and excuses you then just see it for what it is, progress.

[Dr. Goner 661]

First off, as Inception. has said, people will still complain even with a release date. You'll see people posting about why the "Sudden release date shows the game is rushed", people complaining that being forced into a release date means they've given in to pressure and are disappointed, people claiming that DayZ is still somehow a scam and this release date is just another "part of the plan"... I think you get my point.

Secondly, Whilst it is true that you are more likely to do something faster if you set yourself a shorter deadline, but do you know what you'll get alongside that faster completion time? Stress. Tonnes of it. And in this situation, there is NO need to have it done soon, there's no real benefit to the team to get out out early in place of working on it, it's simply the impatience of others that is causing this need for a release date. I would imagine the team is small, so stressing them out is only going to cause complications, for no gain.

Actually, this is one of the main points of the law. In fact, less stress comes from a shorter deadline. It's a paradox but true. What people fill that excess time alloted with is usually stress, worry, over engineering etc. I had to point this out because it's one of the most relevatory points of the law to me personally. Tight time frame equals less stress and more actual work.

[Dr. Goner 661]

'Parkinson's Law' was meant to be satire.

Also, unless you have empirical evidence, it has not been scientifically proven.

Wrong, the Peter Principle was meant to be satire, but it doesn't change the fact that it's true and proven. It's like how George Carlin's comedy is satire but still 100% accurate. 

[Rage VG 4033]

Actually, this is one of the main points of the law. In fact, less stress comes from a shorter deadline. It's a paradox but true. What people fill that excess time alloted with is usually stress, worry, over engineering etc. I had to point this out because it's one of the most relevatory points of the law to me personally. Tight time frame equals less stress and more actual work.

But logically that would not make sense. A deadline will not directly affect someone's capability (excluding the debatable speed in which they do it, I.E having a deadline isn't going to make you better at coding or art) and since there is no reason to get the game out before a specific date, all that a deadline is going to do is prevent that free time they could use to innovate upon their current build. There is a massive hype to live up to, here; having less time to perfect features or work up new ones to make a game worth all of the hype is certainly going to cause stress.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Rage VG

[Dr. Goner 661]

I think I'm missing something here.  Or maybe it's just gone over my head.

 

Having deadlines and issuing a release date to the public are two entirely separate things.  They have internal deadlines and they've also opted not to make a release date public yet.

 

What was your point again?

 

I can't help but feel this thread should be entitled "Why I need a release date" and then maybe you could elaborate on that.

My point was that work expands to fill the time you allow for it. I feel like it's a pretty straight forward statement. I then included the scientific theory that it's based upon and once again, due to my belief that most of the people that still post on these forums are part of the Dev team in one way or another, I'm trying to keep my head above water by suffering the KOS mentality towards any criticism whatsoever. In fact, it wasn't even criticism, it was supposed to be fucking helpful. 

 

You know how we got to the moon? Someone in charge said we are going to do this in this time frame and we fucking did it. We didn't say oh we might do it by this date or we may do it by this date, we set a date and met that goal. A goal which was considered laughable by most of the scientific community and even more laughable by the Russians. Maybe it's an eastern block thing, I don't know. Set a date, tell the world, and fucking own that shit.

Edited September 18, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Dr. Goner 661]

But logically that would not make sense. A deadline will not directly affect someone's capability (excluding the debatable speed in which they do it, I.E having a deadline isn't going to make you better at coding or art) and since there is no reason to get the game out before a specific date, all that a deadline is going to do is prevent that free time they could use to innovate upon their current build.

Then it seems we are in agreement. They have plenty of free time to innovate upon their current build. Meanwhile the world is playing GTA V and Arma 3. 

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Yeh, see you're missing your own point.  

 

I thought the point of your post about Parkinsons Law was to suggest that having deadlines is constructive.  The dev team do have deadlines so I'm sure they'd agree.  As I said that's different to making a release date public though.

[Dr. Goner 661]

Yeh, see you're missing your own point.  

 

I thought the point of your post about Parkinsons Law was to suggest that having deadlines is constructive.  The dev team do have deadlines so I'm sure they'd agree.  As I said that's different to making a release date public though.

Setting a public release date (for most companies) would be the ultimate deadline. I can see why BIS is "Rocket 2" gun shy about doing it at this point though. I just think you set a date, tell the world, and meet that expectation no matter the cost. It's the old college try, the entrepreneurial spirit. Companies do it everyday. 

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I agree.  Sadly for us they're just not at a point where they can confidently do that though.  As we speak they're moving to larger offices and expanding the team.  

 

Hopefully once they settle in they can give us something concrete.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Fraggle

[Max Planck 7174]

Edit: All of the people who think the concept presented is "bullshit" need to get a dose of the real world. People do work far more effectively and efficiently when given deadlines and oversight.

 

Not saying the concept is 'bullshit', just that it is wrong to present it as 'scientifically proven' without empirical evidence.

 

The scientific method just might be our greatest achievement as a species and it pains me to see things such as

 

 George Carlin's comedy is satire but still 100% accurate. 

 

100% accurate? What? How did you measure that?

[Dr. Goner 661]

Not saying the concept is 'bullshit', just that it is wrong to present it as 'scientifically proven' without empirical evidence.

 

The scientific method just might be our greatest achievement as a species and it pains me to see things such as

 

 

100% accurate? What? How did you measure that?

Well if you're telling me now that you don't understand George Carlin I don't know how to help you.

 

In fact, it seems like you're saying you don't understand the point of satire. Fiction reveals the truth that reality obscures and all that. . . The Peter Principle was a satirical book pointing out a very real problem. There is virtually no one who contests its value and I think you're making yourself look foolish by doing so. Now Parkinson't Law has been shown over and over and over again ad nauseum especially in economic texts concerning venture capitalist firms and technology companies. I'm not going to spoon feed you any more info than I already have. If you're interested do the research on your own. I had to. 

 

Don't argue just to argue. If you don't want a release date just say I don't want a release date because blah blah blah. Trying to discount my reason for thinking a public release date is healthy using random anonymous internet trolling takes away your credibility.

[Max Planck 7174]

I'm not arguing just to argue, but I think that we have fundamentally different ideas about what 'proven' means.

To me, 'universally accepted' just doesn't cut it. I'd like to see the actual numbers.

 

I also got a bit annoyed by the slightly megalomaniac "we" in the title, hence the sarcastic opening line.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Dr. Goner 661]

I'm not arguing just to argue, but I think that we have fundamentally different ideas about what 'proven' means.

To me, 'universally accepted' just doesn't cut it. I'd like to see the actual numbers.

 

I also got a bit annoyed by the slightly megalomaniac "we" in the title, hence the sarcastic opening line.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Fear not, you'll find the data. There have been studies done, with rats, where they set up a simple maze and give the rats various times to get to the food. If the animal is satiated (not hungry) at the beginning of the test, it will simply take the entire time allowed to access the food. If they start to slowly lower or remove the food access. The animal immediately grabs the food whereas seconds before it showed no interest. It was putting off this "work" because it had no need to get it done. 

 

Also, Parkinson's essay was funny but he did back it up with empirical data. Just read his publication, it's still readily available. The data is right there. Some argue that it's no longer relevant, but to me that's like saying that Newtons laws are no longer relevant. Parkinson did a study. That study backed up his claim. The reality is probably that most people fear his findings as it would introduce more pressure to perform efficiently. Also, if we enforced it, the world economy would most likely collapse due to the amazing amount of under-working that takes place in the most high paid jobs.

Edited September 18, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Dr. Goner 661]

I don't know how many studies you are going to require me to post before we can get back on topic of Why We Need A Release Date. 

 

Here's one in detail.

 

http://www.csun.edu/~vcpsy015/APAsample.pdf

 

Edit: Here's another just to be safe.

 

https://editorialexpress.com/cgi-bin/conference/download.cgi?db_name=IIPF63&paper_id=203

Edited September 18, 2013 by DrGonzo