[SA] Starvation

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

If you go into the starvation road with very limited food then the logic consequence would be to begin to kill other humans (players) because you could cook and eat their flesh - another reason to KoS (but possibly a more 'authentic' one in an harsh apocalypse world).

 

There have been recorded episodes in history in which it happened.

 

_Anubis_

[Wayze 549]

If you go into the starvation road with very limited food then the logic consequence would be to begin to kill other humans (players) because you could cook and eat their flesh - another reason to KoS (but possibly a more 'authentic' one in an harsh apocalypse world).

 

There have been recorded episodes in history in which it happened.

 

_Anubis_

Exactly, I don't understand the guys who cry about KoS. It is the whole point. It is what makes the game so thrilling. It is what makes the game so authentic. It is like a freakin' experiment where people act how they would in such a scenario, and sadly it looks pretty bad for us.

What is wrong about the mod is not that it has much KoS, the problem is the motivation of the KoS situations. People do it just for fun and they always will do it if you do not turn it into a survival game. I think that KoS will not change much in the SA, even without the starvation system it would change nothing. But we will see when the game releases.

Anyways, like I said the motivation behind KoS is the important part. Why are players doing it now? To have fun.

Why would players do it in a survival game? Because they want to survive.+

 

This is the big difference, KoS will never disappear and it will probably increase because in the SA you actually have f*cking much to lose, not just some AS50 which you find in 20 mins anyway.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Wayze

[mercules 1290]

We are actually talking about years after the outbreak. Like Dean said more than once his game is very much inspired by The Road, which has exactly the same problems which I described. What you described are not the real third world problems, because they are pretty happy if they can survive and if they have atleast something to eat every second day. But that was not what we were talking about, it is not authentic. Just watch the movie The Road and you will probably see what I mean.

 

 

How do I say this nicely... "You are wrong."

Example of someone who gets enough food but not enough of the right food... 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwashiorkor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerophthalmia

Edited September 12, 2013 by Mercules

[Wayze 549]

How do I say this nicely... "You are wrong."

Example of someone who gets enough food but not enough of the right food... 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwashiorkor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerophthalmia

A view questions to your deseases:

What people are mainly effected by these medical conditions? How old are they? Where do they live?

Do they die due to these conditions, or do they in the end die because of starvation? Why do these people get sick so easily? Do they also get sick if they have actually enough food?

 

Read the articles and answere to these questions, maybe we can talk further then.

 

Also I want to note that you are not really responding to my post. I even said in itself that these arguments, no matter if they are true or not, are totally irrelevant for this conversation.

Like I said watch The Road if you haven't seen it, it is the best survival movie ever made.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Wayze

[mercules 1290]

I think you need to read the articles. Like the very first one I linked there. Take note of the line of text that reads:

 

 

Sufficient calorie intake, but with insufficient protein consumption, distinguishes it from marasmus.

 

Those are diseases that can happen even when you have enough food to eat but don't eat the right things. That would be the point of pointing them out... wouldn't it. 
 

Do people die of these diseases alone? Let's see, reading what I linked again would tell us:

 

 

As scurvy advances, there can be open, suppurating wounds, loss of teeth, jaundice, fever, neuropathy and death.

Oh! Look at that! Death from not having vitamin C. Only been known about since... well, recorded history. 

 

You just don't understand that having enough to eat ISN"T enough alone. You also have to have certain things in your diet or you will either become incapacitated like going blind from Xerophthalmia or partially immobilized from Scurvy, or even die. Both of those affect HEALTHY adults who end up on a diet that lacks certain vitamins. You know, like eating nothing but cans of beans for months on end. 

You don't need to have a lack of food to die. Lack of proper diet is enough and they have already talked about adding that part in. 

[Wayze 549]

I think you need to read the articles. Like the very first one I linked there. Take note of the line of text that reads:

 

 

Those are diseases that can happen even when you have enough food to eat but don't eat the right things. That would be the point of pointing them out... wouldn't it. 

 

Do people die of these diseases alone? Let's see, reading what I linked again would tell us:

 

Oh! Look at that! Death from not having vitamin C. Only been known about since... well, recorded history. 

 

You just don't understand that having enough to eat ISN"T enough alone. You also have to have certain things in your diet or you will either become incapacitated like going blind from Xerophthalmia or partially immobilized from Scurvy, or even die. Both of those affect HEALTHY adults who end up on a diet that lacks certain vitamins. You know, like eating nothing but cans of beans for months on end. 

You don't need to have a lack of food to die. Lack of proper diet is enough and they have already talked about adding that part in. 

What the hell does this have to do with starvation? In a survival scenario you don't have f*cking time to count calories and vitamines, you eat what you find. So you really think that these desease would be the main problem in an apocalypse?

Healthy adults? Dude, lack on certain vitamins is unhealthy. Also is takes months to years until you get critical and die. I don't think that in a survival scenario you would eat the same food all day because you will eat whatever the f*ck you find. I really don't think you will die in  Dayz because of lack of vitamines or proteins. Probably you get some disadvantages. But like I said these problem you describe are the last that would trouble you. These deseases, like I said, take months to build up deadly. It shouldn't be that you have to find the right but, it should be like finding finding food at all.

[Jex 1104]

There is no need to resort to personal attacks, play the ball, not the man.

 

Yes you are right, but then you should be telling him also shouldn't you in the interest of fairness? Or is it ok to put words into other peoples mouths on these forums?

[Wayze 549]

Yes you are right, but then you should be telling him also shouldn't you in the interest of fairness? Or is it ok to put words into other peoples mouths on these forums?

You call it opinion. The world is unfair, sorry if you did not realise. I never did put words into your mouth, you just misunderstood my post. I called DayZ Mod a bad deathmatch mod and you thought I meant another game.

Anyway, if you never signed up into a forum that was probably the first lesson you had to learn. In the internet you should never take things personally because they aren't.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Wayze

[p4triot 207]

I just saw "the road", great movie, but I can't see your point. In the movie food is so scarce because the world is dying. Cold everywhere, no animals, no crops, all nature is dissapearing... What has this to do with Day Z? Nature isn't dying in Day Z, whatever you could do before the Zombie outbreak can still be done, only being carefull of not being eaten by a zombie or hunted down by a bandit is what actually changes. I can't see why all the food in the world should be gone.

[bibbish 49]

F@#% that in that case just make.it where u need to find a can opener or something to get the can open y would u need to cook the beans i mean they want more realistic right ur on a hike u brought a can of beans how are you going to get it open? Plz grammers nazis leave me alone lol

Nope, you write like an idiot. We can barely see what point you are trying to make.

[bibbish 49]

There should never be a mechanic in a game that kills you simply because the game decides it's time for you to die. Do you actually realise how annoying it's going to be if food is as rare as antibiotics? It will also make the game nothing more than look for food simulator 2013. Make food rarer that's fine, but I think you want it where you're constantly looking for it and that isn't a game.

It kinda is the point of the game. We are looking for things to take away any illnesses, fix bones and survive. 

[Wayze 549]

I just saw "the road", great movie, but I can't see your point. In the movie food is so scarce because the world is dying. Cold everywhere, no animals, no crops, all nature is dissapearing... What has this to do with Day Z? Nature isn't dying in Day Z, whatever you could do before the Zombie outbreak can still be done, only being carefull of not being eaten by a zombie or hunted down by a bandit is what actually changes. I can't see why all the food in the world should be gone.

Point A:

The food in the world will be gone, very, very fast. As soon as people know that the zombie apocalypse is coming (it will not come within one day) people will buy/steal everything they can. Very soon all supermarkets will be empty, the people who die because of the virus, well they just die. The people who turn into zombies just turn into zombies. The people left will have very few things left because before all the people died by the virus they just freaked out. If you are ill and you know that you will die, what will you do? Most of the people would go crazy, nobody would go to work because it would be way to dangerous. So no food supplies etc, but people need that food, even if they are infected they just want to survive so they vandalise and steal everything they can.

As you see such an apocalypse is not as simple as you think, it won't run like:

Zombies are there and the world ends.

The virus has to spread over the world and within the time the virus needs to kill or transform all the human the people will ofcourse be aware of it.

 

Point B:

Dean said very often that he wants DayZ to be like The Road, even a few days ago he said that on reddit. So yes, DayZ SA has very much to do with The Road.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Wayze

[Jex 1104]

You call it opinion. The world is unfair, sorry if you did not realise. I never did put words into your mouth, you just misunderstood my post. I called DayZ Mod a bad deathmatch mod and you thought I meant another game.

Anyway, if you never signed up into a forum that was probably the first lesson you had to learn. In the internet you should never take things personally because they aren't.

 

I can't be bothered to point out how you are wrong in every sentence you just wrote.

[Wayze 549]

I can't be bothered to point out how you are wrong in every sentence you just wrote.

Is your ego really that big? :|

[bibbish 49]

We are actually talking about years after the outbreak. Like Dean said more than once his game is very much inspired by The Road, which has exactly the same problems which I described. What you described are not the real third world problems, because they are pretty happy if they can survive and if they have atleast something to eat every second day. But that was not what we were talking about, it is not authentic. Just watch the movie The Road and you will probably see what I mean.

 

 

DayZ was actually not supposed to be a zombie game, Dean just wanted to create a game where people act like in a surviva scenario. He is often redditing (is that a word?) that he actually want the game to be kind of like The Road.

Jesus, I can not explain to you the problem if you never watched the movie. It is freakin' awesome and DayZ should be exactly like that.

I like what you are saying. The zombies are fun to run away from and shoot but you lead me to an interesting point. Zombie films are often not really about the zoms, they just create a scenario and explore a story where we can see just what the characters will resort to to survive. These films kinda explore human nature.

 

There is a board game called Zombies!!! It is turn based. You loot buildings fight zeds and get to create the map as you go. You get to move zombies towards other players as part of the game. This can cause their death. You also have a hand of cards which give you weapons or cause horrible things to happen to the other players. The objective to get to the helicopter and escape. The helicopter looks small, like the size of a 'little bird' or something. I think it could hold several people. However the game allows no option for that. Once one player gets to it the game is over. Seems quite realistic to me. I can only thing of about four people in my life I would really risk my life for, I doubt I would try to get a total stranger to my helicopter to escape too...

 

My friend did one of those '2.8 hours later' zombie runs recently. There are normal people who pretend to be zoms and chase you from point to point through a city at night while actors give you objectives. It was kinda every man for himself and my friend in particular found that when his fight/flight mechanism kicked in he ran, HARD. Screw the rest of the people he knew. 

 

So yeah, the zoms can be really fun, and scary, but I think Dean wanted to craft a survival game where we can see how people will react when resources, including food, are scarce. Will we trade, will we shoot each other? Well I think we know the answer to that, luckily lots and lots of new features are being added too and there are cool loots and vehicles on top of that. DayZ has always been great because it has always been much more than shoot zeds, people and drive vehicles. The survival has always made it compelling, perhaps in my case I enjoy the challenge. 

[mercules 1290]

Point A:

The food in the world will be gone, very, very fast. As soon as people know that the zombie apocalypse is coming (it will not come within one day) people will buy/steal everything they can. Very soon all supermarkets will be empty, the people who die because of the virus, well they just die. The people who turn into zombies just turn into zombies. The people left will have very few things left because before all the people died by the virus they just freaked out. If you are ill and you know that you will die, what will you do? Most of the people would go crazy, nobody would go to work because it would be way to dangerous. So no food supplies etc, but people need that food, even if they are infected they just want to survive so they vandalise and steal everything they can.

As you see such an apocalypse is not as simple as you think, it won't run like:

Zombies are there and the world ends.

The virus has to spread over the world and within the time the virus needs to kill or transform all the human the people will ofcourse be aware of it.

 

Point B:

Dean said very often that he wants DayZ to be like The Road, even a few days ago he said that on reddit. So yes, DayZ SA has very much to do with The Road.

 

Watch the movie that the Zeds in DayZ are based off of, "28 Days Later". Then watch the second movie 28 Weeks Later where a single infected person basically wipes out the newly established civilization that is moving back into Britian by infecting others and it moves through the population in a few hours. 

 

What the hell does this have to do with starvation? In a survival scenario you don't have f*cking time to count calories and vitamines, you eat what you find. So you really think that these desease would be the main problem in an apocalypse?

Healthy adults? Dude, lack on certain vitamins is unhealthy. Also is takes months to years until you get critical and die. I don't think that in a survival scenario you would eat the same food all day because you will eat whatever the f*ck you find. I really don't think you will die in  Dayz because of lack of vitamines or proteins. Probably you get some disadvantages. But like I said these problem you describe are the last that would trouble you. These deseases, like I said, take months to build up deadly. It shouldn't be that you have to find the right but, it should be like finding finding food at all.

 

Do you honestly believe it wouldn't? As you like to point out Dean Hall stated he would like to introduce these features. Not he would like it to be like... but stated that he would like to make it so that if you don't eat enough variety then you could have complications and even die. 

Check out Scurvy some time. It is amazing what a lack of vitamin C can do. 1-3 months and you can start having issues healing from injury. That could be a serious issue in an apocalypse.

 

Between 1500 and 1800, it has been estimated that scurvy killed at least two million sailors.[19] Jonathan Lamb wrote: "In 1499, Vasco da Gama lost 116 of his crew of 170; In 1520, Magellan lost 208 out of 230;...all mainly to scurvy."

 I look at the food in my pantry,my wife and I tend to do things like buy canned goods or pasta when they are on sale and buy more than what we need for that week then use it up as we go along and it isn't on sale, right now I could probably live for a month off that food and the great thing about the Zeds is they won't be eating their food. We have vitamins and things like mandarin oranges so we probably wouldn't have to worry but if you look at the food in DayZ Vanilla none of it contains vitamin C other than the trace amounts in Mountain Dew.

We need to assume DayZ is a bit accelerated on time as sneakers won't wear out in a couple days of running unless you are treating them extremely poorly, and you don't need a beefsteak every few hours. Assume your character lives for a week and we are talking about a month's time. If during that time you haven't consumed anything with Vitamin C in it then there is a small chance of gaining the Scurvy status. Go another week and we are talking a much higher chance. By a third week you should start to bleed a bit more from hits and not get as much health back when you do get treatment. 

 

 

It would add something beyond, "I have 8 Beefsteaks, I'll just ignore cans of food." Might make something like "Vitamins" a good find for those that hope to exist for a while while those that just want to get back to Cherno and PvP will probably ignore them. 

There is PLENTY of food all around you. I don't think you realize how much food your corner gas station like SA, Holiday, 7/11, PDQ, and such contain. Within 10 miles of my apartment I can count 4 grocery stores, 45+ restaurants, 5 gas stations. Yes people would make runs on food and water, if they had time, but given the speed of infection going on in 28 Days Later series they really won't have a ton of time to stockpile.

My major concern would be ammo. I don't stock much for my shotgun and there is a ton of potential Zeds all around me. 

[Wayze 549]

Watch the movie that the Zeds in DayZ are based off of, "28 Days Later". Then watch the second movie 28 Weeks Later where a single infected person basically wipes out the newly established civilization that is moving back into Britian by infecting others and it moves through the population in a few hours. 

If I don't recall wrong, when DayZ came out or pretty soon after the release the backstory was:

90% of mankind die due to the virus, 9% turn into zombies and 1% is completly immune. (not sure about the numbers) The virus does not spread through contact but through air, just people with absolute immunity survive the virus. Even if the zombies were based on that, they obviously are nothing compared to them. Zombies in 28 weeks later are such a threat that the probability you surviving even highly armend is pretty small. The zombies in the game are a joke. That is why it is no survival game. And I bet that won't change much in standalone. Maybe zombies will be a bit harder, but no way like in 28 days later.

 

 

Do you honestly believe it wouldn't? As you like to point out Dean Hall stated he would like to introduce these features. Not he would like it to be like... but stated that he would like to make it so that if you don't eat enough variety then you could have complications and even die.

 

Check out Scurvy some time. It is amazing what a lack of vitamin C can do. 1-3 months and you can start having issues healing from injury. That could be a serious issue in an apocalypse.

1-3 months and I could get problems, but how are the odds for that? Good luck surviving 1-3 months in a world like 28 days later, I hope you saw the movie because without a heavily guarded fortress or a helicopter you are pretty screwed. You see, all the problems you describe are more like the problems after survival. If you survive in DayZ 1-3 you did a good job, at some point you will die anyway, but the real problem is not to survival longer than 1-3 month in my opinion it should be to get even to the point where these kind of things bother you.

 

 

Yes people would make runs on food and water, if they had time, but given the speed of infection going on in 28 Days Later series they really won't have a ton of time to stockpile.

This would be a good explanation if the zombies were near as dangerous as the zombies in 28 days later. But they just aren't and they never will be. So that is your explanation for DayZ not being a survival game?

You will see, in the end even the SA will be easy as f*ck. As soon as you know how to get your vitamines straight you reach endgame and the game is boring as sh*t. I atleast want a hardcore mode where this is not the case.