Mod Suggestion: Convert between SD and non-SD?

[ionicpaul 27]

With the new update, the ability to use SD rounds in non-SD weapons, and vice versa, will be removed because of the ability to not aggro zombies when shooting a loud firearm. While I agree with and like this feature. However, in real life, certain weapons don't need special ammo for silencers. For these weapons, I think it'd be a good idea if you could "convert" the ammo between SD and non-SD. Because the ammo in the real SD and non-SD weapons is identical, it wouldn't actually be converting, but instead making the game realize you're using the ammo for an SD or non-SD weapon, and making it loud/silent to match. Of course, weapons that need special ammo for silenced fire wouldn't have this option on their ammo.

 

Thoughts?

[Mos1ey 6301]

I agree.

 

Not much more to say.

[SaveMeJebus 164]

For most all calibers of weapons there a supersonic and subsonic rounds, the subsonic do not produce any kind of sonic boom and are therefore quieter so used with suppressors BUT also have much less range due to subsonic speeds.  So I do agree with you partly but there is kinda SD and non SD ammo for most all weapons.  All same caliber ammo should be usable in any weapon BUT SD rounds in a non SD weapon should = less dmg/range and of course if you put non-SD rounds in an SD weapon it will only be slightly quieter.

Edited September 10, 2013 by SaveMeJebus

[-Gews- 7443]

Just let the suppressed 5.56 weapons use normal ammunition since subsonic 5.56 is not used. Also let the suppressed Bizon use normal ammunition since 9x19mm is already subsonic, or close enough to it. And the same for the Makarov SD, although it does it already so nothing needs to be changed. And also let the M9 SD use both types. And don't forget to let the suppressed MP5 use normal ammunition since the integral suppressor automatically reduces the velocity of full-power ammunition to subsonic levels...

 

 

 

 

No need to convert ammunition at all, I don't think, since sounds are tied to weapons. And I'm not sure of it but I think the game automatically adds a sonic crack to bullets traveling faster than the speed of sound...

Edited September 11, 2013 by Gews

[ionicpaul 27]

No need to convert ammunition at all, I don't think, since sounds are tied to weapons. And I'm not sure of it but I think the game automatically adds a sonic crack to bullets traveling faster than the speed of sound...

The sounds are tied to weapons, but the "sounds" in the way zombies hear you are not. If you didn't convert them, you'd have the current system, where firing SD rounds from a non-SD weapon doesn't alert zombies. Which is silly.

Edited September 11, 2013 by IonicPaul

[-Gews- 7443]

The sounds are tied to weapons, but the "sounds" in the way zombies hear you are not. If you didn't convert them, you'd have the current system, where firing SD rounds from a non-SD weapon doesn't alert zombies. Which is silly.

 

Mmm, in that case they should change it to be tied to weapons.

[ionicpaul 27]

Mmm, in that case they should change it to be tied to weapons.

I don't think they can, which is why this problem was there in the first place.

[AP_Norris 1018]

Only rounds like .45 ACP that are already sub sonic can be used in a silenced gun.

I think you should be able to use different things to silence the M191.

Like an oil filter or a bottle and teddy bear.

[AP_Norris 1018]

Silenced guns should be louder for Zeds aswell.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Subsonic ammo in SD weapons were used so the shooter doesn't tell his position away by the supersonic clap the bullet creates when leaving the muzzle and passing potential listeners at the cost of range and maybe terminal ballistics. You can never make a firearm completely silent because of the bolt assembly, maybe a bolt action but only until you move the bolt to reload another round but the initial plop at the end of the suppressor can still be heard from close distance although it might sound different from afar. Sunbonic ammo would have to recock an automatic weapon every time because it lacks the power to move the bolt.

In game they might have had to do this trick because they couldn't manage to give a bullet other properties when it's used in a SD weapon f.e. with the MP5SD. The RL MP5SD used supersonic ammo which was slowed down to subsonic thanks to it's design so the ammo would actually be interchangeable bewteen all MP5s. Why they didn't permit certain weapons from using SD ammo or vice versa in the game is a mistery to me.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Just let the suppressed 5.56 weapons use normal ammunition since subsonic 5.56 is not used. Also let the suppressed Bizon use normal ammunition since 9x19mm is already subsonic, or close enough to it. And the same for the Makarov SD, although it does it already so nothing needs to be changed. And also let the M9 SD use both types. And don't forget to let the suppressed MP5 use normal ammunition since the integral suppressor automatically reduces the velocity of full-power ammunition to subsonic levels...

 

 

 

 

No need to convert ammunition at all, I don't think, since sounds are tied to weapons. And I'm not sure of it but I think the game automatically adds a sonic crack to bullets traveling faster than the speed of sound...

 

Bizon is 9x18mm, though. It's still very close to subsonic.

[-Gews- 7443]

Bizon is 9x18mm, though. It's still very close to subsonic.

 

This is what I meant to say. It's 350 m/s, subsonic is <340 m/s.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

This is what I meant to say. It's 350 m/s, subsonic is <340 m/s.

Yeah, it's super close.

Hardly noticeable. That being said, the difference is there.

[-Gews- 7443]

That being said, the difference is there.

 

True, however most sources claim 320 m/s as the Bizon's muzzle velocity, which is subsonic. As well Google says "the Bizon-2-03 model (Bizon-2B) is equipped with an integral suppressor — its barrel is fitted with an expansion chamber. Expanding powder gases escape into the expansion chamber through the holes in the rifling groove bottom to reduce the muzzle velocity to a subsonic level".

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

I'll be honest... I entirely loath the whole concept of SD and regular ammo (being a gun guy IRL). There is just no such thing in the real world. You can use regular rounds in a gun with a suppressor, you don't have to conform to subsonic rounds just because you slapped something on the end of your barrel! I supposed it was the teams way of 'balancing' how often guns could be used, but it needs to be rid of in SA.

 

I swear every time I see 3 regular mags in my inventory and can't use my M4A1 CCO SD.... I die a little on the inside...

Edited September 13, 2013 by OfficerRaymond

[enforcer1975 1111]

I'll be honest... I entirely loath the whole concept of SD and regular ammo (being a gun guy IRL). There is just no such thing in the real world. You can use regular rounds in a gun with a suppressor, you don't have to conform to subsonic rounds just because you slapped something on the end of your barrel! I supposed it was the teams way of 'balancing' how often guns could be used, but it needs to be rid of in SA.

 

I swear every time I see 3 regular mags in my inventory and can't use my M4A1 CCO SD.... I die a little on the inside...

 

Didn't you read what i wrote above? It seems they couldn't code the ammo type to go subsonic when used f.e. in a MP5SD so they had to go with two ammo types. Why you can't use the ammo in any weapon seems a mistery or a technical hurdle oer just a config problem. And long before some players here were born they used subsonic ammo to keep the signature of the weapon low IRL while sacrificing range and sometimes damage.

[Karmaterror 982]

I didn't think using SD ammo in a regular gun made it silent!?!?!?!, I did notice that when you fire sd rounds frm a normal gun they don't fly strait tho, seem to land just off the reticule. I kinda liked this because if you accidently loaded an sd mag it could screw you over in a firefight lol.

 

I would say there should be some difference in whats fired by an SD gun and a normal one (maybe not realistic) but balances it out a bit. For example you couldn't find a M4A1-SD and then run to cherno and use all the regular stanag round your finding at firestation/mil tens or even at balota. You would have to get back to a high value spawn to find the rounds.

 

Another option could be to find supressors as a seprate item that could break over time....so you have to decide when to silence your gun, and it wouldn't be permernantly silenced. Then the realism for ammo is there aswell.

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

Didn't you read what i wrote above? It seems they couldn't code the ammo type to go subsonic when used f.e. in a MP5SD so they had to go with two ammo types. Why you can't use the ammo in any weapon seems a mistery or a technical hurdle oer just a config problem. And long before some players here were born they used subsonic ammo to keep the signature of the weapon low IRL while sacrificing range and sometimes damage.

Must've missed it. Either way a suppressor with either type of ammo will still be relatively quiet.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Must've missed it. Either way a suppressor with either type of ammo will still be relatively quiet.

 

That can easily happen with this wall of text :D the loudest would still be a supersonic bullet due to it's supersonic clap. Even with subsonic ammo you would still hear the sounds of the gun itself if you are close enough because of the moving parts unless it's a bolt action - the least you could hear is a pop of sharp pfffff sound. That's one of the most misleading parts in the older action movies where suppressed weapons were involved that you could never hear them.

 

I didn't think using SD ammo in a regular gun made it silent!?!?!?!, I did notice that when you fire sd rounds frm a normal gun they don't fly strait tho, seem to land just off the reticule. I kinda liked this because if you accidently loaded an sd mag it could screw you over in a firefight lol.

 

I would say there should be some difference in whats fired by an SD gun and a normal one (maybe not realistic) but balances it out a bit. For example you couldn't find a M4A1-SD and then run to cherno and use all the regular stanag round your finding at firestation/mil tens or even at balota. You would have to get back to a high value spawn to find the rounds.

 

Another option could be to find supressors as a seprate item that could break over time....so you have to decide when to silence your gun, and it wouldn't be permernantly silenced. Then the realism for ammo is there aswell.

 

That's just a game/config bug, a player can still hear another player shoot SD ammo in an unsuppressed weapon, it's coded so the AI doesn't hear you when you use it in the weapon it's meant for, it's actually a form of "bug" using imo. I don#t know why the SD bullet flies upwards though, could be to alter the zero of an SD weapon and of course the projectile drops very fast. You are wrong assuming you can't interchange supersonic and subsonic ammo but i also thought that at first a long time ago and stood corrected, the only difference would be a subsonic rounds wouldn't cycle a rifle due to the lack of power. Suppressors are actualy made to last a couple of rounds and don't easily break like in f.e. in certain video games unless you really mistreat them.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Enforcer

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

AHEM.

 

 

"* [uPDATED] - Removed non SD mags from SD weapons, Removed SD mags from non SD weapons. (weapon configs)"

 

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/141571-rolling-changelog/

[-Gews- 7443]

AHEM.

 

That update is even worse that before, IMO... does the firing pin of an unsuppressed weapon magically know that it's not supposed to strike the primer of an "SD" round? :lol:

Edited September 14, 2013 by Gews

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

That update is even worse that before, IMO... does the firing pin of an unsuppressed weapon magically know that it's not supposed to strike the primer of an "SD" round? :lol:

 

 

Um, well no. They fixed it. What this means is that sd mags and non-sd mags will be cross compatible. The only difference between sd and non-sd mags (in Arma 2) was the presence of tracers. For obvious reasons you wouldn't really want to load tracers into a suppressed weapon. But I agree, it's weird that it was configured that way in the first place. Thankfully the dev team of Arma 3 is sharing whatever they can with rocket and friends so hopefully minor problems (like this one) that we inherited from the Arma 2 engine won't be an issue in the standalone.

[-Gews- 7443]

The only difference between sd and non-sd mags (in Arma 2) was the presence of tracers.

 

And the different damages and bullets... as well as the 320 m/s muzzle velocities...

 

In any case I read it as "SD weapons can only use SD magazines, normal weapons can only use normal magazines". We shall see.

[ionicpaul 27]

In any case I read it as "SD weapons can only use SD magazines, normal weapons can only use normal magazines". We shall see.

That update message was why I made this thread. I don't know how you could read it any other way.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

In any case I read it as "SD weapons can only use SD magazines, normal weapons can only use normal magazines". We shall see.

 

Nevermind, I think I see what you mean. They probably removed the mags from the description of the guns. It wouldn't make sense to change it from how it is to how it is. You already can't use SD mags in an SD gun, so I figured that meant they fixed it.

 

Well I agree anyway. It's completely illogical that I can't use 5.56 mags in an SD gun that is chambered to 5.56. Also, subsonic 5.56 ammo barely even exists, and it's not even powerful enough to cycle the bolt on an m4. So that also makes no sense...

Edited September 15, 2013 by SalamanderAnder