A minor, but interesting, firearm suggestion.

[OrLoK 16185]

how about a 20 guage shotgun smaller bore, might be too small FIND OUT MEASURMANTS AND FACTS MAN!!!!

Facts? Here? On the Internet?

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I love how this is under such intense debate when the gentleman in the video clearly just did it. You can throw around numbers all you want, it won't change that.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

I love how this is under such intense debate when the gentleman in the video clearly just did it. You can throw around numbers all you want, it won't change that.

 

 

I agree the video shows that it can work.  While it wouldn't be nearly as effective as a 50 BMG fired from a M107 or a AS50,  I am sure that 12.7x99 from a shotgun could do something at close range!  In the video it went through 4 feet of water for crying out loud!  I think that would be enough to put a human out of commission.    

[-Gews- 7443]

I think that would be enough to put a human out of commission.    

 

Most definitely

Like the title says though, interesting but minor, I don't feel this feature needs to be added (and if it was added I'm pretty certain it wouldn't be done properly, BIS isn't really OCD about these things).

[Sutinen 635]

One i know that would work is shooting .38 special rounds from a .357 revolver. It's just as wide so it fits in the chamber

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

One i know that would work is shooting .38 special rounds from a .357 revolver. It's just as wide so it fits in the chamber

 

 

Exactly. this suggestion is not only about firing a .50 bmg round from a shotgun, but also using pistol rounds in slightly larger bore weapons, like .38 special in a .357, 9mm in a .40, .40 in a .45 handgun. (and by the way these do not require any kind of tape or modification to work. You can just load a 9 mm round into a glock .40 and shoot it.) These are more practical examples of makeshift ammo usage which I have observed directly in real life. The .50 bmg is just an outstanding demonstration of what guns are actually capable of. I think a lot of people like to approach firearms as these perfect little idealistic machines that have set damage values and statistics that they can track through numbers (which is great for video games), but the reality is far more physical than that. For example, the amount of lead cake inside the barrel can affect your muzzle velocity. We could have a discussion all day about whether or not using a gun as a blunt force tool is a good idea, when the real question should be, "can it be done and what would be the effect on the gun?"

 

You could use a pistol as a hammer. But over time, the frame would become warped from the stress of those impacts. Certain functions would stop working over repeated abuse - the gun might cease to accommodate magazines, or magazines might "stick" in the grip when you try to reload. The slide mechanism might become misaligned in a way which would cause the pistol to do peculiar things. I can give a real-life example of a Glock I had to fix; every time I shot it, the slide would remain locked back in the open position, instead of closing and chambering another round. It turned out to be the slide lock, which I just had to fiddle with and use some common sense to repair. But that repair took a crucial five or six minutes which would have probably killed the user in a firefight. Personally, I would like it if the team tried to approach guns in this way, which allows for things like "abuse," malfunctions, and maintenance. So maybe it's not such a "minor" suggestion, but I think it's worth looking at once they have weapons working in the SA.

 

 

Winging it is different than desperately trying to find a reason for the .50 to exist in the game...most shotgun users would probably melt the lead and make another projectile out of it, maybe with a metal or steel core.

 

If the bullet would hit with the tip it would penetrate but with the side or bottom it would squash and spread it's energy in the impact area.

 

 

Melt the bullet with what? And I guess they just have bullet casts lying around that they can pour the molten metal into? Oh yeah and apparently they have the ability to somehow refine and seperate melted lead, copper, and steel? Because that is the composition of most modern bullets. They are lead/steel cores with copper jackets. Bullets are not made of pure lead anymore. Furthermore, manufactured bullets are almost aerodynamically perfect because they are made with very powerful, precise machinery. Machinery which you would not have access to in this situation. Let's not forget you'd need a shell and a brand new primer, which you also would not have access to. All of this means that homemade bullet < manufactured bullet. There's no logical or practical reason to do any of that. Any bullet you made in these conditions would be the equivalent of a 19th century musket ball.

Edited October 5, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[-Gews- 7443]

Any bullet you made in these conditions would be the equivalent of a 19th century musket ball.

 

So would a bullet fired in an oversized bore. Without stabilization it's not a spinning bullet anymore, it's just a randomly tumbling chunk of lead and copper.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

So would a bullet fired in an oversized bore. Without stabilization it's not a spinning bullet anymore, it's just a randomly tumbling chunk of lead and copper.

 

Indeed. So either way, you get the same results. Therefore both logically and logistically it doesn't make sense to melt the bullet down to make a crappier version of it just to shoot it out of a shotgun, when you could have done that just as easily before. It's an improvisation. You don't spend probably weeks trying to melt down a bullet to improvise with it. You do it right then and there in the simplest (and probably rudimentary) fashion possible. But also, simply removing the bullet from the casing is actually taking away from it's potential energy. There's no way you could manufacture a shell that is as air tight and packed full of gunpowder as a manufactured .50 caliber bullet. So actually one could argue that it would still be far less effective.

Edited October 5, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[-Gews- 7443]

Indeed. So either way, you get the same results. Therefore both logically and logistically it doesn't make sense to melt the bullet down to make a crappier version of it just to shoot it out of a shotgun, when you could have done that just as easily before. It's an improvisation.

 

However you risk blowing your shotgun up. The only reason that barrel didn't explode is because the pressure that would normally be bottled up just escapes as the case neck and shoulder instantly blow out since there's nothing holding them in place. Then the pressure just passes around the bullet instead of building up in the barrel since the bullet is horrendously undersized. That's my theory anyways.

 

You're right though, it doesn't make sense to melt the actual bullet down unless you have a bullet mould.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

However you risk blowing your shotgun up. The only reason that barrel didn't explode is because the pressure that would normally be bottled up just escapes as the case neck and shoulder instantly blow out since there's nothing holding them in place. Then the pressure just passes around the bullet instead of building up in the barrel since the bullet is horrendously undersized. That's my theory anyways.

 

You're right though, it doesn't make sense to melt the actual bullet down unless you have a bullet mould.

 

Of course. I said in the original suggestion it should have a chance of critical failure which would render the gun useless and probably hurt or kill the user. I think your theory about the gas expansion is correct; if it weren't for the space around the bullet, this little trick probably wouldn't even work in the first place. It's even possible that the gas escaping around the bullet in fact helps prevents it from striking the wall of the barrel and ripping the barrel to shreds, but I wouldn't trust it a whole lot. It's not something I would do under any normal circumstance, obviously.

[-Gews- 7443]

It's not something I would do under any normal circumstance, obviously.

 

This is the problem I have: in real life deliberately using incorrect ammunition would likely be a last resort. In the game, people would use it all the time. The bandit spawning in Elektro finds some .40 ammo and a 1911... he has no weapon, what's to lose? He'll use that .40 ammo to shoot the first person he sees. Doesn't matter if it damages him or the gun, he can respawn and it will be funny either way. Same with the survivor who finds some .30-06 and a Mauser 98. Wants a functional weapon, doesn't care about the consequences since he'll dump it after finding something better.

 

 

So the end result is people using the wrong ammunition not very rarely or by accident, but everywhere, all the time, on purpose...

 

So by adding an option which exists in real life, the overall scene can actually be made less realistic/authentic.

 

That's my thinking, anyways. I guess people can mull over ways to prevent the constant and widespread misuse of ammunition, but fear of a gun exploding doesn't really exist when 99% of players don't really care about their character and can just eat some cooked meat or what have you if it happens.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

This is the problem I have: in real life deliberately using incorrect ammunition would likely be a last resort. In the game, people would use it all the time. The bandit spawning in Elektro finds some .40 ammo and a 1911... he has no weapon, what's to lose? He'll use that .40 ammo to shoot the first person he sees. Doesn't matter if it damages him or the gun, he can respawn and it will be funny either way. Same with the survivor who finds some .30-06 and a Mauser 98. Wants a functional weapon, doesn't care about the consequences since he'll dump it after finding something better.

 

 

So the end result is people using the wrong ammunition not very rarely or by accident, but everywhere, all the time, on purpose...

 

So by adding an option which exists in real life, the overall scene can actually be made less realistic/authentic.

 

That's my thinking, anyways. I guess people can mull over ways to prevent the constant and widespread misuse of ammunition, but fear of a gun exploding doesn't really exist when 99% of players don't really care about their character and can just eat some cooked meat or what have you if it happens.

 

 

Breaking your own gun is not exactly an ideal position to put yourself in. It means you have to find another one. And actually, people often do use the wrong type of ammunition in their pistols, on complete accident. Why prevent it? If someone chooses to use the wrong ammo for their gun, that's their choice. But again, eventually that gun is going to break and they'll have to find another one. The blown-out cases would cause the pistol to jam on a regular basis, and using makeshift ammo would deal less damage. The consequences are still there. Also, how can you say that people don't care about their character, when they clearly kill each other to keep their own characters alive? When it comes down to combat efficiency, anyone thinking logically would prefer to use the correct bullets if they found them.

[-Gews- 7443]

Breaking your own gun is not exactly an ideal position to put yourself in. It means you have to find another one. And actually, people often do use the wrong type of ammunition in their pistols, on complete accident. Why prevent it? If someone chooses to use the wrong ammo for their gun, that's their choice. But again, eventually that gun is going to break and they'll have to find another one. The blown-out cases would cause the pistol to jam on a regular basis, and using makeshift ammo would deal less damage. The consequences are still there. Also, how can you say that people don't care about their character, when they clearly kill each other to keep their own characters alive? When it comes down to combat efficiency, anyone thinking logically would prefer to use the correct bullets if they found them.

 

Well I kill people just for fun to be honest, and I think it's the same for most players I've met... when I wanted to keep my character alive I just wandered the North and didn't get into shootouts.

 

However I was just reminded of the dev blog showing ammunition being inserted into magazines from boxes, so this idea might be more viable than I thought, especially if players have to actually know what kind of cartridges their gun uses, instead of being spoon fed names like "1911 magazine" or "CZ550 magazine".

 

 

 

Some things would need to change engine/config-wise. Right now accuracy depends on the gun, muzzle velocity depends on the magazine, and projectile characteristics depend on the bullet.

 

They would need to lower the gun's accuracy, lower the muzzle velocity, increase the air resistance and possibly alter damage as well. To do that the original bullet would have to be replaced behind the scenes with a new bullet, hm.