First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[rn_max 202]

Has anyone actually managed to be more right than everyone else yet?

 

Let me see, all these circles of  "he said, she said" boil down to not a whole lot, apart from 32 pages of competing pee stains.

 

FPV is generally preferred, but is probably flawed enough to warrant retaining some form of TPV until or unless it is improved, particularly when operating vehicles.

[iashford 73]

There are alternatives, guys. I don't think JUST excluding third person is the answer. We've played with first person, to cut it out now is to get rid of an audience, which includes me. I'm all for fairness, but I'm not for selfishness.

 

Games like Max Payne 3 have dynamic camera views that move the camera AWAY from the area that you shouldnt be able to see. For example, moving the camera to the left when a corner is on your right. Or moving the camera down when crouching behind cover. Needless to say, shooting in third person is a lot more difficult than shooting in first person, so maybe making the option to change between FPS and TPS is in the options, rather then on the fly. That way people can't use third person then suddenly go to first person in the middle of a gun fight.

 

There ARE alternatives, but I do NOT like the idea of people trying to tell me what is immersive, and how a game that is currently THIRD PERSON shouldn't be played that way. At the end of the day, if you dont like it, go make your own video game. At the very least, go play on one of the servers dedicated to first person only and leave us TPS lovers alone.

 

Not to mention, since I can not feel where I have been shot, I at least need to see it on my person.

Edited August 26, 2013 by I.Ash

[Ken Bean 175]

Long ago there was kind of a war between players about which view is the better one, 1st person and 3rd person. Then came the shooter years and almost every game out there was a 1st person game. I never understood this because I always saw advantages in both. I love to play games like Gothic in a 3rd person view and I absolutely fail to understand how someone could even think of playing such a game in 1st person only.

Anyway, since a few years developer frequently put the ability in to switch the view between 1st and 3rd person and yes, that's exactly my thing. I love to run around in 3rd p and if it comes to fights, I sometimes switch to 1st person, depends. However shooting in 3rd person or shoulder cam sometimes also has its moments.

Now I know that some of you always had some strange issues with 3rd person views in general (some even claim that they litteraly cant play in 3rd p) and some of you really make serious professional sport gaming out of it. But for me who just plays games because of the fun, I don't see how my fun could be raised by taking away the 3rd person view. I just dont get why some seems to favour having only one hand instead of two.

 

Not to mention, since I can not feel where I have been shot, I at least need to see it on my person.

Its strange but I actually have a better ingame feeling if I see the whole character. Maybe because I see how the char behaves in game, if he kneels, lies, stands, crouches, prones... and where exactly. I dont have that kind of feedback in 1st person. There I just know the char is crouching (lowered view, maybe slower etc), but I cant see the whole story.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Ken Bean

[DemonGroover 8836]

It is not about being more right than anyone else. 

 

It is a discussion and we all have our opinions. Let's remember that.

 

But the old "if you don't like it then go play somewhere else" argument really gets on my tits and reminds me of playground arguments when i was 8.

 

EDIT: I agree completely Ken - there is room for both views i think, but i hope that the 3rd person view is at least tweaked to alleviate some of the concerns raised.  In a game that tries to be authentic as possible DayZ really has some strange things within it.

Edited August 27, 2013 by DemonGroover

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

I'd just like to drop this here, this is what happens when third person gets added to a game post release. That's nearing 2000 posts of "Why the fuck are you people doing this?"

Look at the arguments just on the first page, hell just the #3 post. Everything that needs to be said about why 3rd person can't coexist with 1st person, right there. For a totally different game that has only one thing in common with DayZ: it has a PvP aspect. Third person ruins PvP.

https://account.hirezstudios.com/tribesascend/default.aspx?ok=

 

i'd just like to drop this here..

 

omg a FPs with 1st and 3rd person ??? weird how no one complains about eye in the sky over there..

 

ps that is kinda shitty game now, but i did enjoy the early tribes titles, and even some of ascend early on, which all have both 1st and 3rd person. which works flawlessly i might add.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

I suppose that is the crux of the argument - what players want out of the game.

 

When DayZ first landed everyone was into the immersion and tension of being thrown into a zombie apocalypse. No one had really any idea of what to do, where the good gear was and in my case, that 3rd person even existed. There were even friendly players!!

 

 huh ???

 

i suppose if u hadnt played any ARMA at all that might be the case.

 

but i knew of and used 3rd person right from my initial spawn in.

 

ps im still friendly..(no PKs lifetime still)

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

No one essentially is against 3rd person per se, rather they're just against the unfair advantages it gives to those who use it.

 

We need to nail down a decent compromise. So far though AFAIK we haven't hit on any surefire solutions.

 

Keep thinking.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

Edited August 27, 2013 by orlok
grammar ish

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

Hello there

 

No one essentially is against 3rd person per se, rather they're just against the unfair advantages it gives to those who use it.

 

We need to nail down a decent compromise. So far though AFAIK we haven't hit on any surefire solutions.

 

Keep thinking.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

you mean other then seperate 1st and 3rdperson servers ???

 

that solution keeps EVERYONE playing on servers they prefer.

 

oh and it costs ZERO dev time..

[OrLoK 16185]

you mean other then seperate 1st and 3rdperson servers ???

 

that solution keeps EVERYONE playing on servers they prefer.

 

oh and it costs ZERO dev time..

Hello there

 

Check my previous posts. i advocate separate servers as well, but its not a great solution IMHO.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[iashford 73]

I'm going to vote for the dynamic camera like Max Payne 3 :P It adjusts to your position so you don't corner-peek. However, you can easily get rid of that in MP3 by just changing what shoulder angle it goes onto, thus making the feature null and voided.

 

If you just have the dynamic camera without the camera switching option, I think it's a great compromise.

 

 

PS: I never meant for my comment to have an "if you don't like it, don't play it" attitude, but at the end of the day... there's going to be first person only servers that accommodate the hardcore players.

[AllMightyKnox 218]

3rd person4dawin. ftr.

[big_t 66]

Hello there

 

Check my previous posts. i advocate separate servers as well, but its not a great solution IMHO.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

Yeah I don't really care if someone wants to play 3rd person and see themselves running for whatever reason (looks cool, is more comfortable, visually verify colour of pants,  ect) it's just the exploits of having the all seeing magical hovering eye that makes the gameplay suffer.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Big_T

[DemonGroover 8836]

 huh ???

 

i suppose if u hadnt played any ARMA at all that might be the case.

 

but i knew of and used 3rd person right from my initial spawn in.

 

ps im still friendly..(no PKs lifetime still)

 

I am proud to say i never played Arma until DayZ.

 

However i am grateful it introduced me to the Arma series and am loving Arma 3.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Rather than trying to fix the problems with third person view, how about some ideas about how to improve first person view? I like first person view already, so I can't understand the issues people have with it, or how they could be fixed/improved.

 

Like I said in my earlier post, if we're going to keep the option, BOTH views must play the same. It should be preference, not strategy which view you choose. Which isn't the case currently.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Rather than trying to fix the problems with third person view, how about some ideas about how to improve first person view? I like first person view already, so I can't understand the issues people have with it, or how they could be fixed/improved.

 

Like I said in my earlier post, if we're going to keep the option, BOTH views must play the same. It should be preference, not strategy which view you choose. Which isn't the case currently.

 

Well as far as 1st person it needs to be as realistic as possible but in a game i suppose that is pretty hard to accomplish. The FOV always seem to be "out" - does anyone know - is it too hard to produce a 1st person view that simulates the human eye?

 

Cant wait for the Oculus Rift.

Edited August 27, 2013 by DemonGroover

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

I am proud to say i never played Arma until DayZ.

 

However i am grateful it introduced me to the Arma series and am loving Arma 3.

i myself only had a brief encounter with arma before dayz existed, but back then i found it to be to "dry" and mil-sim for me.

 

oddly enuf i now love it, haahah...

 

ps arma 3 is AWESOME, cant wait for the full game to drop. been loving playing throu the alpha/beta phase. been a complete suker for "escape from Stratis".i cant get enuf of it

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Well as far as 1st person it needs to be as realistic as possible but in a game i suppose that is pretty hard to accomplish. The FOV always seem to be "out" - does anyone know - is it too hard to produce a 1st person view that simulates the human eye?

 

Cant wait for the Oculus Rift.

 

The problem I see with that is not everyone has a 40" display or multiple monitors, so when you give more field of view, everything gets smaller and harder to see clearly. I'm pretty sure with enough money thrown at the problem, you could replicate in arma what the human eye sees.

 

But, I was more interested in what is different about Armas first person view? Why can people accept a game like COD having only first person view, but then write off FPV in Arma as unusable. What's different in arma? Can that be changed/improved? Would improvements be enough to get some people off of third person?

 

If we need to see our wounds for the sake of gameplay, how can that be accomplished in first person view? If we're getting information that is required for gameplay in third person view, how can that information be given to us in first person view? Stuff like that.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

Well as far as 1st person it needs to be as realistic as possible but in a game i suppose that is pretty hard to accomplish. The FOV always seem to be "out" - does anyone know - is it too hard to produce a 1st person view that simulates the human eye?

 

I dont think Ive seen it done successfully (at least on one standard monitor).

 

Also, I'm all for a reasonable fix, be it on the first or 3rd person front.

 

My point being, why not try to solve the issue rather than knock heads on which view is bestest?

 

In BF3 for eg, I feel very in control of my avatar. I don't feel that in any of the Arma series and somewhere 'tween the two in for example RO2.

 

Yes, I do know the differences of the differing aatar "types" but if one had better control of ones avatar, would ones viewpoint matter as much?

 

Does the mods inherent clunkiness encourage one to use third person?

 

I tend to use 3rd person when in vehicles purely because of the odd physics/drive model used. Vehicles are far easier to control in 3rd person, whereas in first IMHO they are a bit of a pain and don't handle as they should.

 

If say they sorted out that issue, I'd happily only use first person when driving. (As a passenger, the only time I use 3rd person is when I want to look at he pretties")

 

Are we actually looking at the wrong problem?

 

Rgds

 

LoK

Edited August 27, 2013 by orlok

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

The Results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1pZqrOkddl42aICeOf7EBAGqAwEHgLwbiYJlIJj2Sil4/viewanalytics

The rates were not so stable at the beginning, but after a while the rate was like "66% for FPV" "33% for both FPV and TPV" and seems like after getting much more votes did not change this fact. The rates are still almost the same.

The poll on the forums shows that 70-75% of the forum members want FPV instead of TPV. This poll shows that 66% of the reddit users would prefer FPV over TPV. That is pretty much end of the research, I am guessing.

As a sight note, almost everyone (even those who don't want only FPV) seems to be well aware of the fact that the TPV is often used to cheat (like looking over fences, behind doors/corners/whatnot.).

I hope this community activity would enlighten some issues and help them to be solved more easily.

Thanks for participating the research everyone!

Regards

[SMLE 39]

Hello there

 

No one essentially is against 3rd person per se, rather they're just against the unfair advantages it gives to those who use it.

 

We need to nail down a decent compromise. So far though AFAIK we haven't hit on any surefire solutions.

 

Keep thinking.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

There is no unfair advantage if you play on a 3rd person server , Choice again .

[DemonGroover 8836]

I like your reasoning.

 

The Olympic commission should take on that logic and just allow performance enhancing drugs to be used in the events.

 

If everyone can exploit a system or that system is accepted by everyone then its all fair.

 

Like it!

[SMLE 39]

Hello there

 

Check my previous posts. i advocate separate servers as well, but its not a great solution IMHO.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

Why ?

and yes ive read your posts , choice cant beat it .

[SMLE 39]

I like your reasoning.

 

The Olympic commission should take on that logic and just allow performance enhancing drugs to be used in the events.

 

If everyone can exploit a system or that system is accepted by everyone then its all fair.

 

Like it!

You keep calling it an "exploite" it is a "feature" of 3rd person play .

The beauty of servers in 1st and 3rd person is you don't have to play on the one you don't like , nobody looses everybody wins .

Choice the breakfast of champions :)

[DemonGroover 8836]

Sometimes choice isn't always a good thing.

 

Look at the chumps who run our countries for example.

[SMLE 39]

Sometimes choice isn't always a good thing.

 

Look at the chumps who run our countries for example.

lol I cant argue with you there :)