SA thoughts on bandages and bleeding

[lord3n 33]

when it comes to wounds, from things like gun shots, piercings (knife) or anything that could poke a hole in you and force you into bleeding...

what if the more damage you took from the injury, the faster you lost health. im not suggesting its a significant difference in pace, but something balanced and believable.

also, maybe if really bad wounds took more than just one bandage to fix. set it so if its a very bad wound, one bandage will do a lot to slow the blood from leaking, but you would need one more to completely stop it. regular wounds would require just 1 like normal.

have some kind of indicator to let you know how fast your losing blood or something to tip you off that your in serious shape and medical attention cannot wait.

anyone build off this? too complex?

anybody think it might make people think twice about getting in a gun fight? cut down on the aggression between players? i dunno. looking for thoughts from others.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Lord3n

[Skat3rat 1633]

I think a better idea is if they could somehow incorporate vital organs and arteries.  

 

For instance if you got shot in the heart or head, it would be an instant death.

 

If you get hit in an artery, you would have to stop the bleeding and it would require proper medical attention to really stop it.

[pxxl 259]

Would be awesome if you have a chance of getting a major artery hit and add the need of a tourniquet.

[lord3n 33]

I think a better idea is if they could somehow incorporate vital organs and arteries.  

 

For instance if you got shot in the heart or head, it would be an instant death.

 

If you get hit in an artery, you would have to stop the bleeding and it would require proper medical attention to really stop it.

i like the idea of the instant death. head, heart or central nervous system. in real life you are toast (except for some extremely unlikely scenarios)

if they wanted to go deep with it, even making a chest seal for punctures to your chest. give the player the same effect as when they are drowning with everything getting hazy. unless you have a chest seal or suran wrap, plastic bag etc. to combine with a bandage or something.

[applejaxc 2500]

Zombie bites, punches, and scratches (below the neck) shouldn't cause you to bleed like a pig with a knife in its gut.

 

And I believe Rocket said different wound sources = different bleeding rates and different wound locations = different bleeding rates (IE, getting shot in the foot will give you enough time to hobble to safety, but a hatchet in the face and you're lucky if you come out alive)

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Honestly I'd like to see an injury system based on skeletal damage, blood level, and internal injuries simultaneously. Gunshots cause multiple types of injury and they should be appropriately simulated. America's Army has a neat system that I really like, and it would be great to see something similar implemented down the road.

 

Here's how I picture medical operations working:

 

Let's say your buddy gets shot, and goes down into shock. So you drag him someplace safe, and bandage him, but before any real treatment can be applied you have to "study wounds" or something to that effect. (Bandages I think should be excluded from this pre requisite, since you can see bleeding.)

 

Then you would get a message that would list major injuries, like "Arterial Hemorrhaging, Broken Right Femur, Damaged organs, Lodged Bullets" ect.

 

From here it would be left entirely up to the player to provide treatment. This is where I would really love to see a medical system based on tools.

 

Say you want to splint a leg? Gotta build a splint, maybe give him some morphine to get him walking. Want to repair a damaged organ, or artery? You'll have to find a suturing kit and a scalpel. Want to remove a bullet? You'll have to have either some forceps, or a scalpel, or maybe even a hunting knife. However, every item used in surgery should have a chance of giving the player an infection when used, unless they are disinfected first. To boot, surgery should cause a constant, slow blood loss until the surgery is over. Therefore blood transfusions or saline injections will also be necessary to really restore a person back to health after a surgery.

 

On top of that, major surgeries like organ repairs should have an individual chance of failure, in which case a surgeon might close up a patient with a still-hemorrhaging organ which could cause infection and death later on, without further treatment.

 

It also would be nice to see items like this have a "bundling" ability in the inventory. For example, a toolbox and the tools that go inside it would be separate objects. Similarly a first aid kit would be a separate container object you could find, and place medical tools inside. One should not have to "remove" said objects before using them. It's just a way to keep inventories nice and organized.

Edited August 14, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[HazZarD87 166]

The more of this they can implement the better. It goes towards balancing gun damage to. It's not uncommon for a 5.56mm round to not kill you.. but you're defenitly not running around and shooting back if it hits the right spot. I will follow this thread with keen interest!

 

Anything I'd have to say on this has allready been mentioned so I won't bore you with regurgitating :P

[HazZarD87 166]

i like the idea of the instant death. head, heart or central nervous system. in real life you are toast (except for some extremely unlikely scenarios)

if they wanted to go deep with it, even making a chest seal for punctures to your chest. give the player the same effect as when they are drowning with everything getting hazy. unless you have a chest seal or suran wrap, plastic bag etc. to combine with a bandage or something.

That reminds me of "the fatal T"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEghICs5oqw

 

08:00

 

That minute gives you the fatal T but the rest is really worth watching aswell :)

Edited August 14, 2013 by HazZarD87

[King of kong 1117]

[AP_Norris 1018]

I don't see how pulling a piece of rebar out of your torso improves your condition at all unless you're gonna bandage afterwards.

[HazZarD87 166]

I don't see how pulling a piece of rebar out of your torso improves your condition at all unless you're gonna bandage afterwards.

 It probably does more damage than it fixes. First thing they teach you in civil or military first aid: if something is sticking out.. LEAVE IT IN!! :P Dress the wound around it as best you can and leave it alone untill it can be properly removed and taken care of.

[King of kong 1117]

I honestly didn't look at zee video. But Far Cry 2 has some nice first-aid animations.

[AP_Norris 1018]

I honestly didn't look at zee video. But Far Cry 2 has some nice first-aid animations.

The fire and relocating are the only ones that make logical sense.

[DemonGroover 8836]

So can somebody who knows tell me - if you get shot but it isn't fatal what is the procedure?  Do you have to dig the bullet out? Take antibiotics?  What must you do?

 

For gameplay simplicity i am not suggesting you need to rest in bed for a week but surely any bullet wound is life threatening without proper treatment right?

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

So can somebody who knows tell me - if you get shot but it isn't fatal what is the procedure?  Do you have to dig the bullet out? Take antibiotics?  What must you do?

 

For gameplay simplicity i am not suggesting you need to rest in bed for a week but surely any bullet wound is life threatening without proper treatment right?

 

It depends on where the person was hit, the caliber, distance, ect. Initially you want to stop the external bleeding and treat for shock, but the internal damage can vary widely. Upper chest area, the major concerns are broken bones, internal hemorrhaging of arteries, collapsed lung, heart damage, other organ damage (not to mention spinal damage, which is paralyzing). It's generally pretty tough to save someone who's been shot in the body unless the bullet manages to miss any major arteries, organs, and bone. That's what most people call a "flesh wound," which can generally be patched up by suppressing the external bleeding and suturing later.

 

Neck and face area, obviously very bad. Most people wouldn't even survive, but if they did, there would be massive trauma to the airway which would have to be resolved immediately with an artificial airway, to keep them from suffocating to death on their own blood and cartilage.

 

Arms and legs, you'd primarily be concerned with external bleeding, arteries, and bone damage. Broken bones would have to be splinted for some time and morphine could be used as an additional medical option, providing pain relief and thus higher mobility for a period of time. I think morphine is going to become more like the epi-pen - meant only for extreme emergencies to get someone on their feet with a broken leg under duress.

 

Removing a bullet is primarily a concern with low power or low caliber rounds. High powered rounds tend to leave devistating exit wounds, whereas pistols, small caliber rifles like the 5.56 variants (5.56 is particularly known for it's tendency to deflect off of bone and spiral through the body, which is why it's not very good for hunting), and buckshot tend to stay lodged in the body and must be removed. Also, getting shot has a very high risk of giving you an infection in real life, so hopefully the game will simulate this as well.

Edited August 16, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[King of kong 1117]

 

Obviously, you can't bandage this fast.

Edited August 16, 2013 by King of kong

[lord3n 33]

So can somebody who knows tell me - if you get shot but it isn't fatal what is the procedure? Do you have to dig the bullet out? Take antibiotics? What must you do?

For gameplay simplicity i am not suggesting you need to rest in bed for a week but surely any bullet wound is life threatening without proper treatment right?

i believe that any wound which punctured you and would have a cavity, like a gunshot might produce, would have to be packed with gauze and then wrapped.

quick clot which some people might have heard of is something i believe might be cool to have in game and could stop bleeding much better than a regular bandage.maybe a wound which needed two bandages to stop, might only need one quick clot bandage. but id make them rare to find.

in real life i think first responders would pack the wound (stuff as much gauze as you can into the hole or cavity) so that you are putting pressure right up against the source of the bleeding, and once the wound is packed, wrap it up so the packing stays put. if you get hit in an area like an artery, you run the risk of bleeding out in a matter of minutes, from my understanding at least.

obviously depending on where you get hit, the bleeding coud be a lot harder to stop. and getting hit in the chest where you might puncture a lung s gonna be a bigger issue, and would require more knowledge on treatment, cause you arnt going to pack that wound, you need to seal it. but you would need to find a way to release the carbon dioxide that would build up inside the lung.

im sure someone more experienced than me can fill in the gaps, but i believe thats the gist of it.

antibiotics i think would be just to prevent or stop an infection, i think. but i believe your immediate concern is to stop blood loss. getting hit in an artery might need a tourniquet, or likely would need one as the blood flow is a bit more aggressive. but you have only hours i think before the limb would need to be amputated if you have on a tourniquet. and in real life, your wound might take 2 or more tourniquets, like in the thigh where there is a lot of meat there, and needs to be really really tightened to close up the artery in the middle of all that muscle.

someone please correct any inaccuracies you may find in my post, as there might be a few.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Lord3n

[Bludy 324]

i'd like to see wounds reopen and blled again if you do too much effort, like running for a long time, jumping, going prone..

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Ah the us army and it's "toys" ...

 

More realistically, if all you have in name of bandage is "rags", that's what i'm more interested in.

Leave the cool quickclot bandages and all that "nice to have stuff" and lets be realistic for a second because in a pinch, you gotta do with what you have, which usually isn't much.

[LancerG2 369]

I think you might need to look over something like this. This might cover most of the stuff you said, only to a more complex sence. Especially with Collateral damage and bleeding.

 

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/140609-remove-that-obsolete-blood-system/

[lord3n 33]

Ah the us army and it's "toys" ...

More realistically, if all you have in name of bandage is "rags", that's what i'm more interested in.

Leave the cool quickclot bandages and all that "nice to have stuff" and lets be realistic for a second because in a pinch, you gotta do with what you have, which usually isn't much.

i agree that rags, shirts, etc should be more available than medical equipment. maybe you can cut up a shirt into like 5-6 rags to be used for bandages. BUT BUT BUT, what about making sure shirt is cleaned in water or something or you run a risk (maybe a high risk) of getting an infection from it in say, a few game days? you could enter pots r something larger than a tin can and boil the rags or clothes to be used medically.

actal medical equipment should be rare, and the cool shit should be super rare. so if you find some quick clot, it feels very valuable. no risk of infection, and stops a few bandages worth of bleeding (if you needed a few bandages for a big wound)

Edited August 16, 2013 by Lord3n

[lord3n 33]

just out of curiosity, and in regards to making characters themselves more valuable, so if you die, you lose your "perks".

well, in regards to medicine, what if they put medical manuals, each with a different procedure, like how to fix a sucking chest wound, out in the world that you can find, and learn. so you would still need to find the items to perform the procedure, but you would gain that "perk" on how to fix that, either for yourself, or another player.

if you die, you lose all knowledge. get shot in the chest? nobody around with experience? make your peace.

regular cuts, minor bleeding etc would be something even new players can fix, no other knowledge necessary.

you could put these "manuals" out there for fixing cars, helos, planes, generators, etc. create the knowledge is power situation, and if you die, you lose all your knowledge, maybe that would force people to think more before running and gunning.

thoughts ?