How to lower the ”shot on sight” mentality

[scott_mtg@hotmail.com 9]

This suggestion combined with some other game elements already touched on or spoken of could make a big difference.

 

TL;DR; the area an item can be found in should always move over time so people are more interested in sharing information and communicate about the location of a specific items.

 

TL;DR2; A common sight in DayZ is the ”shot on sight” mentality. The only thing you lose for killing a player is communications with that player. Thats why information sharing need to be a vital part of the game so it becomes a valuable asset. Something worth sharing in an apocalypse would be locations of different items. For this to work you need to remove loot maps by making it impossible to mapping specific item spawns. The area an item can be found in should always move over time and should be unique for each server. Specific items will be easier to find by asking around. This combined with a shortage for items, harder zombies and crafting will make teamwork and communication very important and lower the shot on sight mentality.

 

WALL OF TEXT!

Food, drink, medical and weapons. All this can be found in the same town with a 5 minute run through Electro. To solve this many people have suggested that we need to create a shortage of these items and that is partially true.

 

Other common suggestions is to make zombies harder by the health and density of them (with herds and zombies with high HP) and that will force more people to band together to be able to survive but does not matter that much. There need to be a balance in the risk vs reward but increasing the risk because there is to much reward is not always the solution.

 

Crafting is a part of the solution to the problem but dean “rocket” hall has already talked a lot about his plans about crafting and probably knows exactly what to do with that. More about that later.

 

The problem is that there is no NEED to get information from an unknown player. communication with an unknown players is currently close to useless. Most people have learned the game and everyone has dayz loot maps in the browser or know it by heart. Communication is the single thing that is lost upon killing someone and information cant be looted. Information could be a very valuable asset in an zombie apocalypse. There are probably several ways to make it more relevant.

 

The solution: The server needs to limit the area where a specific item can be found for the most items in game. the area an item can be found in should always move slowly over time so people are more interested in sharing information and communicate about the location of a specific item and can not just be read from a page on the web or be learned. This needs to be unique for each server so it can not be tracked and will also improve loyalty to a server.

 

An example of this would be antibiotics. Even if there are several hospitals and medical tents around the map antibiotics should only spawn at one or two of all these locations at a give time and should have a very high chance to be found there if not someone else looted them recently. This should then be the same for all other items. Someone that find this item will then be able to loot several of the same item in that area or town. The player will also know that he can come back to this area not to long after and find more if the item has not moved on yet. This information of the location will be valuable and will create communication.

 

Very common items will still need to be randomly seeded but with a low drop rate over the map, but with bulk or better versions of it should still be found with this solution. Rare items can not follow this system and will therefor have to be split up and created with crafting. An example of this would be the range finder that will need to be assembled with more common items that use this solution. One ranger finder could be build with maybe: batteries, binoculars, laser unit, electronics, wire and maybe also a blueprint. and should make it possible to build one at the right place or/with the right tools. Tools that you also have to craft. In that way the rare items will still be possible to be seeded with this solution since big piles of range finders is not good but batteries would make more sense and would be stupid to carry to many since you need space for survival gear.

 

Players will be able to hoard of specific items to use in trade since people will often find more then they need. Giving someone some of those extra items you find for the location of items is something new to the game. Something else that is also important are notes, signs and notice-boards to help communication between people to make the sandbox environment better.

 

Sorry for my English and leave a comment what you think. B)

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Edited August 6, 2013 by Stridsvagn

[leviski 2152]

Making Loot Rare is a terrible Idea

 

Now in no way am I slamming what you just wrote out 

 

but another game that we dare not speak of round here made loot so rare that it might as well not have been in the game (most cases stuff you found like guns didnt have the ammo implemented but thats a talk for another time)

 

Anyways Creating hotspots that kind of move around the map would be great

 

Like oh hey over in Tulga there is a bunch of medical supplies that some dude who barely speaks English left

 

I mean information like that could be very awesome and put to good use.

 

currently if you find a bunch of stuff that stuff will be gone shortly after leaving the area.

 

 

Making information more valuable would make KOSing 70% less likely to happen 

 

there is still that 30% that shoot people because they just dont want to talk to them (me)

[AP_Norris 1017]

I think rarer loot is a bad idea, because now... People actually have a better reason to kill.

And with no downside, what's stopping them?

[leviski 2152]

His idea isnt really "rare" loot

 

its making information more valuable

 

Hey buddy I know the location of alot of food and meds you really want to shoot me?

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

So, stash gear yourself so you can use it as leverage. Or just tell them you know where a helicopter is. I do it all the time.

[scott_mtg@hotmail.com 9]

I think rarer loot is a bad idea, because now... People actually have a better reason to kill.

And with no downside, what's stopping them?

Making stuff rare or more common is a balancing issue and is also a kinda personal opinion. I want to highlight the hotspots suggestion and how that changes the game and how it can deal with a real issue. In the area an item spawns it will be super common and very easy to find. If you just know were. that is were the player interaction comes in.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Stridsvagn

[scott_mtg@hotmail.com 9]

So, stash gear yourself so you can use it as leverage. Or just tell them you know where a helicopter is. I do it all the time.

Vehicles already have this because players move them around. I want it to be mimiced by the server for items.

[Creep- 569]

It's a game with guns.

 

Nothing will stop people killing other players.

[barrett_killz 229]

Yeah, if someone with a gun wants to kill, he will do it.

[AP_Norris 1017]

Yeah, if someone with a gun wants to kill, he will do it.

Let him, but don't reward him so much for it.

Or make working together much more rewarding.

But yeah, I think loot spawns are just as common with more buildings but now they don't spawn as often.

So isn't this idea already confirmed for SA?

[scott_mtg@hotmail.com 9]

It's a game with guns.

 

Nothing will stop people killing other players.

 

 

Its also good to open up possibility to play the game differently then a TDM. You play Dayz because you want more out of it then a normal fps game like CoD or BF3. All tools or mechanics that open up for more interaction will help that. people will of course still shoot each other Iam not denying that.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Stridsvagn

[Korsbaek 1778]

I hate this stop killing on sight bullshit. There are guns in the game. That means i can shoot players if i want to.

And by the way, what stops me from shooting that other player when he's delivered the info i want?

[Creep- 569]

Its also good to open up possibility to play the game differently then a TDM. You play Dayz because you want more out of it then a normal fps game like CoD or BF3. All tools or mechanics that open up for more interaction will help that. people will of course still shoot each other Iam not denying that.

 

DayZ requires a completely different approach to gameplay than the fps shooters that are available. You can't just run and shoot/twitch at the mouse button.

[FrostDMG 398]

Rare loot is a good idea. Stop the ez mode

[AP_Norris 1017]

DayZ requires a completely different approach to gameplay than the fps shooters that are available. You can't just run and shoot/twitch at the mouse button.

That is true, but your only proving that it isn't designed to be a deathmatch game.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

That is true, but your only proving that it isn't designed to be a deathmatch game.

But there's that a video game can do that's going to stop something that functions at a complicated level in our brains. Regardless of what you do, plenty of people will still kill you after they've gotten what they wanted. They can still force the information off of you and then kill you. You're still a risk to them.

Onto some other points

--------------

1st Point;

The item spawn-rate in the Standalone won't be completely consistent (Meaning you're going to have an element of randomness in the loot spawns. I'm not saying there still won't be a general idea, because you're probably not going to find a MK 48 in a barn, but Rocket did confirm that they are changing the consistency of loot spawns.)

 

 

2nd Point;

I don't necessarily agree with items 'moving', but there is going to be more incentive to keep moving (Considering loot spawns will be different anyway and you'll have to leave the town you're in for the spawn timer to even activate)

 

3rd Point;

For specific items that people will generally KoS for (When it comes for the looting kind of KoS, and not the asshole/troll/fear KoS), 'information' will not be superbly valuable so long as the players know where the hospitals are. Even if you cannot tell exactly what loot a building will have from the outside, you can get a general idea of what it will have.

 

Saying that; it's pretty much guaranteed that loot maps will be made (Unless the loot is so statistically and unrealistically random). It's still likely that hospitals will have a higher chance of medical goods than per say a barn, which will more likely spawn a hunting rifle than the latter. Obviously they will not be super-accurate, but the only real 'information' that players will need is the places to look, and they will look anyway.

And as I said before, people can just kill you after they get the information they want. In fact, that is probably the safest proponent in that situation. For one thing, there's always the hazard of the player you let live getting revenge, or alerting other players. He also has information that he may share with other players, giving them access to the loot that he just gave you. The fact that he also knows where it is, means that he could easily track you down as you go to check out the spot. Hell, it could even be a trap, and there may not be any loot there at all. You'd head there and end up getting shot in the head by a sniper who was cleverly hidden on the roof of a building near yours.

 

While the concepts that you've presented (More 'random' loot) have their own benefits, I'm the kind of critical douche that has to address the specific claims that aren't really valid.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I don' think there is anything that can be done to stop certain players KoS.  Even if the new SA mechanics make loot rarer and the zombies more numerous and difficult to lose there will still be players who just want to KoS. If you give someone a gun they are going to eventually want to shoot someone with it.

 

Ideally i'd like every bullet to count.  If you want to shoot someone, fine and dandy, but make the choice a more difficult one - someone who is borderline KoS might not risk their last dozen bullets on a player who is unarmed or just carrying a pistol if finding ammo is more difficult. 

 

Ammo wouldn't have to be ultra rare but i think it will be harder to come by in the SA. I don't think you will just be able to visit the old faithful loot locations of the mod, you will have to scavenge and explore a bit more.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

I sort of agree about bullet rarity, i don't really like the "shoot things for the lulz" aspect of the mod because it's easy to stockpile ammo on some weapons (belt fed anyone?).

[Creep- 569]

What are you all going to do in-game after 2 months of just "surviving"?

 

I'm curious, not being a smart-ass.

[wild_man 4442]

sorry OP I try to read everythings but I getting too much confuse :huh:

 

is correct you want to make system for stop shot on sight style for play?

 

You write in nice way, I like way your brain is think but is make some idea that is too much impossible, no way for make this happen :|

 

dayz is zombie survive simulate game, I know this but it have best gun physics in the worlds, crazy big map and too many human player, more important point is human player like me :P

 

is nothing dev guys can do to stop guys like me enjoy pure pvP fun :P even if they make system so every time I make one kill I get big electric shock on my balls :o  this don't have power to stop me love best pvP game ever make by a human.  :thumbsup:  :ph34r:

 

you talk about way to make improve for player communicate with player :thumbsup: sometimes I make communicate with players, I communicate in clear way for them to understand 100% what is mean - is call GUNSHOTS :D is mean 'DIE BITCHES!!!' :lol:

Edited August 6, 2013 by KoS

[declan223@gmail.com 271]

I lol at KoS players who get KoS'd to me its just karma

[wild_man 4442]

I lol at KoS players who get KoS'd to me its just karma

is happen many time :D

 

is true if I die I never feel sad, I enjoy adrenalin feel too much :P  and if guy kill me is fair fight he make better pvP is true champion :thumbsup:

 

I think about every guys I killed today and is make me smile to think maybe one guy make revenge on me :)  I think 'good one mate, enjoy this feel for win you deserve this shit' ;)

[Zephyrius 1]

Rare loot/harder zombies might lower the KOS percentage a very tiny bit, but in the end I feel you need a big enough consequence in order to not kill someone. This game has always drawn me back to it because of how real and emotional the game can seem at times. Obviously not zombies running around but it does bring up a lot or morality and a "what would you do in real life?" kind of mood.

 

That being said, it's quite simple, you need a consequence. If there was no police, would you be afraid to do half the crimes in real life? DayZ needs some sort of punishment for overuse of killing players. Whether that be something like blood gets on you making zombies even more attracted to you, or some sort of "enforcement squad" that can be alerted when survivors are murdered over lets say....the radio? Green Mountain can maybe be utilized as a HQ for the good guys.

 

My only concern is changing the game too much. I admit I am a bandit, but I would actually be intrigued at having a "hero squad" looking for me (being a wanted bandit). Maybe if someone kills too many people they have a bounty on their head (supplies or weapons rewarded). Like I said you either need a consequence for killing, or an incentive to be a good guy. That's the only way. Making zombies harder is just gonna piss people off considering how annoying they already are.

[Death_Dealer 3155]

I'm sure KoSing will drop once you can actually survive, and when there are more things to do. I kill on sight simply because of boredom. 

[leviski 2152]

I am really surprised no one read my first post on here and noticed that I was referencing g000gle

 

-many heartfelt lols-

Edited August 6, 2013 by leviski