Melee is now Pointless

[Inception. 9443]

No suggestion other than the age-old change the infection system is present and thus this topic is not appropriate for the Suggestions section.

 

Moved.

[disorder 344]

Oh wow you're a bunch of spoilt children. Really you can't all talk in a forum about something without being load of elitists?

 

Lets get some facts straight, I've been playing games since 8086's and the only commands you could enter were "GO NORTH" This has nothing to do with me and is entirely to do with a mod that is not being balanced properly on each release.

 

Why it isn't, I have no idea but the title of Alpha is an excuse to keep changing things and screwing people around and then if you don't like it then the reply is A) It's an ALPHA. which is bullshit, because it's clearly at the beta stage OR   B) It's obviously your fault you are not doing it right.  Which is what children say who can't be bothered to discuss the problem.

 

An Ad Hominem(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) attack is one against the person and not the issue.  Anger is uncontrolled rage and aggression.  I have made all of my points in as civilised way as possible. Since everyone that has replied has either totally missed the point or has insulted me and then made up false accusations that I have been angry. I am now going to defend myself with extreme prejudice. 

 

1) If it is my fault, why are so many people playing other editions of DayZ now?  You know the ones that weren't happy with a certain mechanic.  Where are the millions of players that the mod had when it was first released?

 

2) if 4 zombies are attacking you, the rate you will get infected is actually 1 in 125.  Since the rate of antibiotics are nowhere near this and factoring in that the places they drop are usually very far from some of the initial spawns. You get.. an unbalanced feature.

 

3)  If a feature kills me in 5 minutes, when it was supposed to keep me alive.  Why why would I want to do it?

 

4) Yes tin cans are a pointless feature too, because they also get me killed.

 

5) There you have the whole logic of my argument.  

 

 

The further breakdown,.

 

 

 

No.

 

 

You obviously seem to be the only one having this problem, but yet you dismiss everyone else off with an attitude.

 

NO? NO? I seem be the only one.. You are mistaken and also ignorant.  First off you don't say NO.. that is like saying I am wrong just because you say so, which is bollocks.  Secondly it sounds like you are denying my right to free speech, are you?

 

The only attitude I give out is to people like you, who are basically implying that I should not be allowed to speak.   Saying NO is condescending.

 

Makes thread based around part of game that is no longer valid. Takes only his opinion into consideration throughout the entire thread. Gets angry at people who disagree

 

Total fabrication again. where is the anger at people who disagree? Evidence please.

 

I'm sorry, I can't stop lol'ing at this thread. This is a classic case of someone not having the skills to do something right, and then coming to a forum and complaining about said thing being useless in the game. I can use melee just fine, however I haven't been able to kill anything with a tin can yet... therefore they are pointless in-game. I should go make a thread about it! Then I can get angry at people who disagree with me aswell! 

 

 

Yes you can make a thread about it. Since I am not angry you can do whatever you like, but I suggest starting with get the hell out of my thread and making your own.  Then I can come to it, tell you your opinion is worthless, tell you its your fault and make you feel like a piece of crap too.  Jerk

 

This is less of a suggestion and more of a criticism.

 

 

A little from column A, a little from column B

 

 

 

The hatchet is the perfect zombie killer and with the way the mod is you just have to run inside a building and one shot zombies to the head to kill them.

 

 

Use a broken mechanic to circumvent another one?   Stupid.  Z's shouldn't even be walking in buildings its a side effect of crappy navigation.

 

 

You seem to have an attitude to other people who have a different point of view then you do. So let me tell you in the way you've been speaking to people.

 

You're point of view is invalid, and stupid. It makes new sense what so ever. Just because you suck at melee doesn't mean it's pointless.

 

 

Please post the proof of "attitude" since I am only defending myself from a load of douchebags, like you, who would rather blame the OP than discuss the fucking issue.  I have never said anyone's point of view was invalid or stupid.   Nobody has made a single point that wasn't an insult.  It took you 5 posts to even understand what I was saying, do you understand what I am saying now?

 

 

No suggestion other than the age-old change the infection system is present and thus this topic is not appropriate for the Suggestions section.

 

 

"change the antibiotic drop rate to 1 in 500"  Looks like a suggestion to me.

 

 

Now, can we have a civilised chat about why the melee is or isn't pointless and the logic of high rates of infection.  And no more frickin insults please, I am fed up with this childishness.  And if you're wondering, my "attitude" is all provoked because I never insult, I never get aggressive and I have been reasonable and fair for my entire stay at this forum.

 

I have even posted community tools and tutorials and In fact my first 5-6 posts in this topic were not negative and contained no direct insults.

Edited July 31, 2013 by disorder

[disorder 344]

Aim the reticle slightly above the zombies head when going for the kill. Don't run - WALK - into range (about five meters). Don't spam left-click like your playing Diablo 1, melee weapons have a slow "rate of fire," take your time to aim then backpedal if you miss/don't land the headshot.

 

If you're fighting infected out in the open, facepalm. Run into a building & always have an exit strat.

 

Getting infected has no correlation to the effectiveness of melee weapons, in fact they're probably the best way to deal with zeds as you won't attract any more like you would firing a gun, or give away your position to players in the vicinity.

 

Too bad about your 150-day+ survivor, sounds to me like a sloppy 1.7.6.1 playstyle that got you killed though mate.

 

Cheers for the decent reply.  I'm not sure if you get it though, getting infected does have correlation because if I don't want to get infected then I don't want to use melee. I pretty much have to wait for a gun.. so why not take melee weapons out and replace the spawns with extra guns?  Why did I waste time picking it up, saying "oh cool a machete lets try it out" and then testing it and getting killed?  This is basically what I have been trying to say.

 

Melee =Keeps you alive.

Infection = Kills you.

 

Melee == Kills you

Edited July 31, 2013 by disorder

[Death_Dealer 3155]

The infection rate is ridiculously high, and it shouldn't onset immediately.  

 

Melee, though, is OP. Tell me, do you have a magic hatchet or machete that hit things from 4+ feet away? No. It's easy as shit to kill zombies via melee without getting hit. Perhaps you just need some more practice. 

[Inception. 9443]

"change the antibiotic drop rate to 1 in 500"  Looks like a suggestion to me.

 

I don't think it being in the twelfth reply counts. Considering the topic of the title is different to the commonly-suggested "change the drop rate of antibiotics to one in fife-hundred" suggestion, it can stay.

 

Content wise, the only thing I'll comment on is:

 

1) If it is my fault, why are so many people playing other editions of DayZ now?  You know the ones that weren't happy with a certain mechanic.  Where are the millions of players that the mod had when it was first released?

 

Well, they are playing the other editions of DayZ because, as you said, they aren't happy with a certain mechanic. Your own implication answers that question. Also, the millions of players could be anywhere; other games...any other activity other than DayZ. Some people have just become tired of DayZ in general.

 

Anyway, can we please keep the comments civilised, everyone?

Edited July 31, 2013 by Inception.

[Chris529 380]

I get what OP means, in order to use melee you have to get close to the zombies but in doing that you risk infection and death. That said, I don't think melee is useless. As long as you can either get them while they are unaware (night is so easy because of this) or 1 on 1 then you should have no issues. The problem is a mixture of melee being risky in the first place with zombies getting lucky hits, and the rate of infection / amount of antibiotics that can be found before you die.

 

by lucky hits I don't mean being shit and missing all the time, I mean those moments where you have a shot lined up and it twitches like a spastic nutter, you miss and it gets you.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Chris529

[GoldenPSP 24]

Learn2Melee

 

I easily killed 50-60 zombies last night with my hatchet and didn't get hit once.

[tobias winfro 305]

I'm sorry if I sounded like a spoiled brat or an elitist jerk, I didn't think my post sounded like that. I offered my story but I don't remember telling you that you're doing it wrong. I'm sorry you feel that way and yes melee combat can feel kind of wonky but I've died plenty of times trying to get the hang of it. Just my 3 cents

[disorder 344]

I'm sorry for my outburst, but it is very infuriating when you post some opinions along with three questions to try and get a discussion and the community proceeds to berate you for it.  It's very negative.

 

Thanks to chris529 for nailing it on the head.  Yes it is risky, when I originally wanted to take the risk I knew I could take that hit of 2000 blood, because I had 10000 left. Even getting hit 4 or 5 times I could still survive.   Getting hit now is an extremely risky prospect.

[GoldenPSP 24]

I'm sorry for my outburst, but it is very infuriating when you post some opinions along with three questions to try and get a discussion and the community proceeds to berate you for it.  It's very negative.

 

Thanks to chris529 for nailing it on the head.  Yes it is risky, when I originally wanted to take the risk I knew I could take that hit of 2000 blood, because I had 10000 left. Even getting hit 4 or 5 times I could still survive.   Getting hit now is an extremely risky prospect.

 

 

Except it isn't.  The reason you get berated is due to your off the hook assertions.  Yes it is more risky to get hit, but that does not mean that you can take the argument all the way to Melee is pointless.  The hatchet is still the best weapon in my arsenal, and I rarely get hit.  It is less of a risk than using a very loud gun in the middle of town.

 

And you only really have to watch out for the infected zombies.  Their infection chances were pushed way up, but the other zombies were unchanged.  Keep an eye out for them and it's not that bad.

[TheLastEmp 295]

Disorder, I think it really has everything to do with the strategy you employ with a melee weapon, as with any other weapon. 

 

Prior to the infection nerf I would've agreed with you... the slightest mistake (or just a zombie glitching through a wall) and you were toast.  Though that would happen whether I was trying to melee a zombie or not...

 

Melee weapons are absurdly powerful and when utilized correctly, can always take out a zombie before they get a hit on you (except for when they be glitchin').

 

Draw a zombie inside a building and learn exactly what the range of your melee attack is so that you can step in an out of range in case you miss a headshot.

 

And don't ever bother trying to attack one outdoors... that's just begging to get infected.

 

Hatchet is pretty much still my favorite weapon in the game (for vanilla DayZ at least). 

[fez0r 23]

Infection is not a death sentance. Eat a bit of food en route to  hospital (or two) or go slay hordes of undead.

 

I got infected today, ran 3km to a hospital, no antibiotics.

 

Decided to log off and try later, or you could just clear the hospital of all loot, run away for ten minutes and come back.

[disorder 344]

Except it isn't.  The reason you get berated is due to your off the hook assertions.  

 

 

Which would those be? I made several well calculated premises, in logical and rational manner and a conclusion.   This is an argument.

 

I think you'll find the real reason is because the internet somehow magically grants permission for everyone to automatically be rude, patronising and offensive and get away with it because they don't have to look anyone in the eye. 

 

Infection is not a death sentance. Eat a bit of food en route to  hospital (or two) or go slay hordes of undead.

 

I got infected today, ran 3km to a hospital, no antibiotics.

 

Decided to log off and try later, or you could just clear the hospital of all loot, run away for ten minutes and come back.

 

That would work, but I had to cheat by server hopping since the hospital I went to in Berezino was totally looted.  Since I play solo I was essentially dead, my health bar was empty and my screen full grey.  I ate all my food to get there and it still didn't matter, that included about 7 cans and 4 cooked meat.

 

But if you say I should have played with someone else, then that is the mod punishing me for a particular play style.  Which is not what Mr Hall even wanted. As I believe he wanted emergent gameplay that was defined by the players themselves with no fixed classes or game styles.

 

 

 

Draw a zombie inside a building and learn exactly what the range of your melee attack is so that you can step in an out of range in case you miss a headshot.

 

Again using a bug to try and fight it is not really the idea, the zombies were/are supposed to be full speed inside buildings.  That tactic would not work when they finally become the menace in buildings they were intended to be.  I know what the range is anyway, approximately, as I've been using for every version since versions earlier than 1.7*

Edited July 31, 2013 by disorder

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

  B)

Look at the cute little smiley face.... so cute.

 

It pretty much comes down to playstyle... If you don't want to risk getting infected, then don't use melee. If you want to take a chance and reap the reward of not aggro'ing everything within 100m, then go for it. This is a realistic game. Do you think if there ever were a real apocalypse with zombies that you'd be able to get bitten and scratched by rotting corpses filled with bacteria, and not get infected? IMO this infection system makes the game SO MUCH BETTER. Now you're scared to go near zombies, when in a firefight zombies are actually a threat instead of a bother that you should run from. Instead of setting up position within range of aggro, you now have to take zombies into consideration.

Edited July 31, 2013 by OfficerRaymond

[p4triot 207]

This is a zombie game. If you pay attention to every zombie book/movie/series you will find NOT BEING HIT by a zombie is the golden rule.. I find the infection perfect as it is, now you are to be afraid of zombies hitting you and do WHATEVER it takes to not being hit, as it should be with everything involving zombies.

 

BTW, Hatchet is still my fav weapon. Use it properly, don't let them touch you and end of the story.

 

I must agree, however, in the SA with the zombies running inside building this situation will turn out impossible. As I said already on another topic on this forum, in an hipothetical world where zombies run more than we do, also inside buildings, can climb laders and doors doesn't work, zombies would win over the world and end of the story. Even in the Hollywood fantasies where main character's can survive the impossible (falling from 3 floors, being shot multiple times and so on), you won't see a movie where they survive in this scenario. If zombies walk, people fight back (Walking Dead, Resident Evil). If zombies run, people HIDE & BARRICADE (Dawn of the Dead, maybe World War Z? -still didnt see it- ). You can't win on an open field with zombies that run more than you and also infect you as soon as they catch you.

 

I always maintained zombies should WALK, but the devs won't hear me at all so lets see how they fix that when the game comes out.

 

P.D: since the new patch I been playing a lot, got infected around 6 times already, only once I ended up dying from it (and it was because I was so low in Blood I couldn't even manage to get to the nearest open field and hunt some animals). Normally, when Im infected I just hunt every animal I see and eat, I can last forever this way and keep playing as normal until I find some antibiotics. Infection takes more than one hour to kill you and there's now plenty of rabbits and chickens which you can heal 2000 Blood from each one you hunt, around 15 more minutes of live. I don't see why all the QQ.

Edited July 31, 2013 by p4triot

[GoldenPSP 24]

Which would those be? I made several well calculated premises, in logical and rational manner and a conclusion.   This is an argument.

 

 

You did?

 

Because this was your OP:

 

Ugh I hate the new infection system, its bloomin' awful.  Why do we still have melee in a game that now punishes it?

 

Is there an increased drop of antibiotics on zombies? 

 

I'm not sure I'm interested in this version tbh it really needs improving.  Is anyone else put off by this as much as me?

 

 

Where were these calculated premises and rational conclusions?

[plexico 386]

Starting to think this is a troll post.

[disorder 344]

You did?

 

Because this was your OP:

 

 

Where were these calculated premises and rational conclusions?

 

You are correct, the OP was direct and to the point.  You didn't say it had to be in the first post.  You just said I made assertions.  Actually it was 2 opinions and 3 questions.  

 

If I write large initial posts, people just TLDR it.  So I'm stuck with writing small amounts until people ask for further explanations or basically attack me, which I don't like since I just wanted a chat.

 

My first question was "Why do we still have melee in a game that now punishes it?" It was a general community question.  In Post #4 I added "Since the rate of infection is so high, melee is pointless"  this is my opinion only.  In #9 I added to the discussion again,  "..If all I am doing is running away, why did I pick up a machete (?) .. Why not take melee weapons out and let us run away until we get a gun.(?)"  So you see my logical ideas came about in extended replies and not the OP.

 

I wanted to talk about these things influencing each other, not fight.

 

 

 

 

Starting to think this is a troll post.

 

I didn't intend it that way.  

 

Really I don't mind if people say I am wrong or my idea doesn't make sense. What I loathe is people either calling me stupid/noob whatever and trying to make me feel that is my fault, that I somehow put something in the mod I enjoyed, just to piss me off?  I didn't put the thing into the mod.    Instead of player vs player social interaction, we have.. survive against zombies.. And it was never survive against zombies, it was always do your own thing and the zombies are kind of there.  The drama and entertainment came from the players.  

Edited August 1, 2013 by disorder

[Hosty 647]

All I see is whining in this thread.

[disorder 344]

Dude if you aren't going to add anything constructive, just ignore me and move on..I would say that to everyone who doesn't like how I talk.  I didn't attack you and there is an ignore option for a reason.

 

I am brutal, to the point and while I may be wrong I am happy to be corrected as long as the right attitude is displayed.  If people want to teach me that is fine, I can learn and adapt.  I don't like put downs and wind-ups. Just talk.

 

People have suggested using buildings to slow down zombies and aiming in a slightly different place, higher or lower and get them from 5ft away.  That is all fine, but is exploiting already dodgy mechanics.  When the zombies don't glitch and act like real zombies, then maybe my way of attacking with my reticule over the target and in range of my weapons actual 3d model will be all I need.

Edited August 1, 2013 by disorder

[chrithu 59]

Melee especially the Machete is absolutely awesome vs Zeds. You just seem to do it wrong. Sneaking up works quite fine if you know how to aim the melee weapon. And once detected get into a house and kill them one after the other as they enter the door. Should that not be an option run out of town to a field. Line them up behind you turn around run backwards. Shortly before the next zombie comes close hold shift, strike, release shift (to run away again). Worked awesomely well for me thus far.

 

I only get infected for making stupid mistakes like ignoring a zombie while looting or fighting zombies with guns.

Edited August 1, 2013 by 31R0Y

[disorder 344]

Melee especially the Machete is absolutely awesome vs Zeds. You just do it wrong. Sneaking up works quite fine if you know how to aim the melee weapon. And once detected get into a house and kill them on eafter the other as they enter the door. Should that not be an option run out of town to a field. Line them up behind you turn around run backwards shortly before the next zombie comes close hold shift, strike, release shift (to run away again). Worked awesomely well for me thus far.

 

I only get infected for making stupid mistakes like ignoring a zombie while looting or fighting zombies with guns.

 

This is similar to what I have said though, in that I don't feel like exploiting some broken stuff to get around some other broken stuff.  The zombies should be moving at full speed inside buildings, it was always the intention.   Besides, I wasn't doing it wrong before the high chance of infection was introduced now it is high risk if you want to survive.  Running away is a far better idea.

 

I'm tired of this fighting now anyway, people keep saying the same thing and I've always stated that the broken things should be worked on before any new ideas go in.  Perhaps that is why the mod will always stay an alpha and not a fully realised and complete mod.  

Edited August 1, 2013 by disorder

[p4triot 207]

You are correct, the OP was direct and to the point.  You didn't say it had to be in the first post.  You just said I made assertions.  Actually it was 2 opinions and 3 questions.  

 

If I write large initial posts, people just TLDR it.  So I'm stuck with writing small amounts until people ask for further explanations or basically attack me, which I don't like since I just wanted a chat.

 

My first question was "Why do we still have melee in a game that now punishes it?" It was a general community question.  In Post #4 I added "Since the rate of infection is so high, melee is pointless"  this is my opinion only.  In #9 I added to the discussion again,  "..If all I am doing is running away, why did I pick up a machete (?) .. Why not take melee weapons out and let us run away until we get a gun.(?)"  So you see my logical ideas came about in extended replies and not the OP.

 

I wanted to talk about these things influencing each other, not fight.

 

 

 

I didn't intend it that way.  

 

Really I don't mind if people say I am wrong or my idea doesn't make sense. What I loathe is people either calling me stupid/noob whatever and trying to make me feel that is my fault, that I somehow put something in the mod I enjoyed, just to piss me off?  I didn't put the thing into the mod.    Instead of player vs player social interaction, we have.. survive against zombies.. And it was never survive against zombies, it was always do your own thing and the zombies are kind of there.  The drama and entertainment came from the players.  

 

LOL!

 

It was always meant to be survive against zombies, and the devs finally achieved it to be (hardly, but better than ever).

 

[Vicco 123]

Ugh I hate the new infection system, its bloomin' awful.  Why do we still have melee in a game that now punishes it?

 

Is there an increased drop of antibiotics on zombies? 

 

I'm not sure I'm interested in this version tbh it really needs improving.  Is anyone else put off by this as much as me?

Yup.  I quit playing on public vanilla servers.  My partner is an excellent axe man, but he got tired of getting infected.

And nearly always dying from the infection.

 "Excellent axe man" is my subjective opinion of his skills.  He's a very good and long time gamer. 

 

But I'm sure he's NOWHERE near as good as the SUPREME axe men I see replying to you.

My God they are good.  Of course they don't mind endlessly watching zombie patterns, crawling around in the dirt, and spending 15 minutes to loot a barn to score that excellent flare.  My partner just won't play this kind of game.  Me either. 

And being Gods, these SUPREME axe men never have a viral glitch and infect them just before they strike with the axe, or after they strike with the axe, or teleport from outside of axe range to infect them.  Axe Gods suffer no such indignities. 

 

Me and my partner have no issue with this.  We are mere mortals, and accept that Gods get treated differently. 

So the Gods have their game, and we have ours, on my own vanilla server.  Well, the loadout isn't vanilla.

We spawn with a 24 slot Coyote.  With 24 anti-biotics.  Infection problem solved.

We don't use many anti-biotics, because as you suggest, we now disdain the axe.  It just gets you infected.

Since we have all the anti-biotics we need, we spend our time searching for ammo.  Ammo to kill zeds. 

 

We kill them in the open, leaving zed corpses scattered everywhere we go.

We lure them into buildings and mow them down, filling rooms with their finally dead bodies.

It's rare they get close enough to infect us.

 

And it's fun doing it.  Zeds are abominations.  Not to be avoided, but to be killed whenever seen.  That's what REAL MEN do in the so-called "zombie apocalypse."  They take back their world from the mindless, filthy zombies, and procreate to repopulate the world with their own kind.

Doesn't have to be in that exact order either.

(Will Rocket implement fucking in the stand-alone?  I mean, a zombie apocalypse won't stop that, right?  Just a question for those always talking about "immersion.")

 

The only time we're particularly careful around zeds is when we are running low on ammo and collecting more ammo to kill more zeds, and to kill the random AI bandits we encounter.  The AI bandits are much more dangerous than the zeds, just as bandits were on public servers with the "old" DayZ.

 

DayZ is for everybody.  Some have fun playing as we do.  Others enjoy crawling around in the dirt trying to avoid infection. 

I say live and let live.

You can find 1.7.6 version servers, so go for that.  Or any non-vanilla mod.  One with a lot of vehicles could work, because vehicles are excellent protection from infection, and good for killing zeds.

 

You are far from alone in not enjoying the current vanilla mod.  Hardly anybody has made YT vids with it.  Those who tried didn't last long before dying from infection.  They could do it, but nobody would watch it, as it would be excrutiatingly boring.   

Some like it as it is.  They make their own arguments.

[GoldenPSP 24]

You are correct, the OP was direct and to the point.  You didn't say it had to be in the first post.

 

The OP was a 5 sentence whine with  an over the top subject.  Two pages in you complain that you are basically just being berated.  With an OP like that what did you honestly expect.  The fist post of a thread sets the stage for what will follow.  If you were trying to set the stage for a meaningful discussion you utterly failed.