SA OREGON TRAIL STYLE IDEA!!!

[TheOldManoftheNorth 15]

Why, if the devs are going to implement a class structure or system or whatever terminology you use for it, haven't they thought of adding an "Oregon Trail" effect to it- where you spawn at a place relevant to your "class choice".  And within the class choice comes specific attributes that allow for further upgrading.  I know they spoke about books, manuals, etc- but perhaps that should be in addition to this type of thing without making that idea to big, or taxing on the performance, or creating a 'reading simulator 3000'. 

 

EXAMPLES INCLUDE-

 

-Medical staff= spawn at/near hospital/clinic/outpost, knows health system on basic level- can read manuals above intermediate level that only make sense to them (scramble the words of the manual to "simulate" not understanding medical jargon) to get to 'expert' level, only achieved by this class individual.  

 

                     - manual could read something like~ ord oseing theha pqlas tha cdsioa wepqw cdas, ewci wieryt rers a... it should look like a CD Key. lolz. 

 

-Countryside farmer= spawn at various houses/farms/etc, knows outdoor survival on basic level- can also read local language (russian, etc) which makes 'expert' manuals unscrambled by them only, etc etc

 

-Mechanic= you get the idea, can fix cars on an expert level- sure people can change a tire, but can you install a starter... i mean probably but still. ha. 

 

-Military private= gun care, weapons expert, long range expertise- but... spawns looking like military= shaved head etc= will be known to players people will know to avoid/shoot on sight... which means behavior in the beginning of this class will have to be very tame, influencing them to delay the gratification of becoming the ultimate surviving douchebag. ha.

 

-etc, etc, etc

 

 

THE POINT OF THIS?

 

-Player value~ encourages more 'neutral' interaction. You don't 'need' any of these.

-Least amount of game correction for Most amount of behavioral psychology correction

-Small bump because SA will have a system anyways so this limits the bump

-I always laugh at the idea of a lay person trying to start an IV on someone who is dehydrated

 

BETTER EXAMPLE-

Ex- Spawn as rural civ (farmer) or whatever = knows how to gut/clean wild game, knows what water is ok, what needs purifying etc.  You encounter a vehicle.  You scavenge and find car battery and attempt to install.  Success!!! +1 mechanic. You find a tire and attempt to change the tire and horraaaaay success! +1 mechanic attrib.  Engineparts yatta yatta.... Fail! You're not a "intermediate" mechanic level yet.  Scavenge find and engine repair manual.  +2 mechanic. you're now an "intermediate".  ZOMBIE!!! You're injured, your arm is bleeding and be it you have morphine, you attempt to administer.... OOPS!! You currently suck at medicine right now and admin the deltoid injection directly into the artery... now you've got histamine modulated nitric oxide release and it causes your arm to vasodilate- you're bleeding out badly.  You encounter people that have a car and and engine but don't have skill level to fix yet. Thankfully, they have an expert medical person. You say "fix me, I fix your car."  HORRAAAYYYY!!!! Recall, you're a FARMER. Not a mechanic.  Now this is clearly above how far I wanted to even think into my own idea (or at least what I have the time for) but lets go back to that scenario if you're a decided mechanic... you encounter a HELI or something.  Maybe someone has a BADLY damaged engine.  This requires EXPERT level mechanics, and you've become this through your efforts.  NOW YOURE VALUABLE ABOVE others. This VALUE is MASKED.  People don't know this about you. ANYONE you encounter (or someone else) may be VALUABLE as well in the same respect.  Therefore, NEUTRAL interaction must occur in order to determine this value and the usefulness of this person.  This opens up a world of other things, because you don't really know what the other person has to offer...and for bandits- it could make them salivate at the possiblity of hostage imprisonment, etc etc.  Get creative.  You cannot KILL AND TAKE THESE THINGS.  This is why it should be implemented.  Currently, why bother to find out what they have... I can pull their items off their corpse.  

 

Now, can someone just kill you? Sure.  

Can someone be an ass and live out their mass murdering dreams? Absolutely.  

Can people go lone wolf? YES.  

 

You don't NEED to be an expert at anything.  But everyone talks about "real world simulation" etc etc... think about one thing you're good at, and one thing you suck at.  Now remove google and tell me, in a hostile, unforgiving environment- how good do you think you'll become at that thing you suck at.  Classes don't predetermine gameplay... they simulate what you suck at and what you're good at.  Yes, you can get better. Yes, some people have multiple talents. But even a manual, or in the instance of my morphine 'joke' a Gray's Anatomy or PDR wont help you become a physician. 

Edited July 24, 2013 by TheOldManoftheNorth

[King of kong 1117]

All should know russian.......good idea otherwise

[methr1k2dop3 323]

As long at it was balanced.

Or EVERYONE would spawn as a solder. 

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Don't like the idea about spawning based on 'class'.  It's months after the initial infection.  Dunno about you but if I was a doctor/nurse I would not hang around a hospital all that time just because I'm a doctor/nurse.  I'd be either cowering in my house or out in the forest avoiding zombies.  I'd much prefer everyone spawn on the coast as a 'noob' (assuming skills don't transfer over after death), or even at 'random' points at the edge of the map (near a road or path or something)

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

I'm fairly confident that there WILL NOT be a class system of any kind. Everybody starts at the same level, knee-deep in beach-mud, and have to work their way up from there.

[taco241 393]

I think you're thinking of a different game. Welcome to the DayZ forums though.

[TheOldManoftheNorth 15]

1)  I WAS thinking of a different game- oregon trail... like "banker from boston"... 

2) CLASS SYSTEM= 49:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKwMVPETfs0

3) A large point of my post was to start a discussion about how to level the playing field a bit, if what he says in the video is true.  Mostly because people will find ways to become uber bandits anyways, but at least you could make it less preferable to getting arserapped on the beach for a while.  

Edited July 19, 2013 by TheOldManoftheNorth

[-Gews- 7443]

I don't like the idea of a class system in DayZ; it can lock players into a certain play style.

 

I actually thought this was about adding a forest trail that ran the length of Chernarus. :unsure:

[TheOldManoftheNorth 15]

I don't like the idea of a class system in DayZ; it can lock players into a certain play style.

 

I actually thought this was about adding a forest trail that ran the length of Chernarus. :unsure:

Well, that's not an awful idea... call it mmm say- "the gauntlet"? 

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Did you just hone in on the word 'classes'?  Because I listened to what Holy One said, "I say this word and its going to Haunt me (seams to have come true)...it wont be classes that we (the developers) make, it'll be classes that the players generate through their play style..."  Most 'Hero' players play as medics as is, we have people who all they do is snipe, then there's guys like me who avoids other players whenever he can and just hangs out in the woods hunting wildlife and surviving.  He's not going to add a Doctor class, or a Mechanic class, or a Solider class to the game.  Players will do that on their own is what he's saying.

[TheOldManoftheNorth 15]

Did you just hone in on the word 'classes'?  Because I listened to what Holy One said, "I say this word and its going to Haunt me (seams to have come true)...it wont be classes that we (the developers) make, it'll be classes that the players generate through their play style..."  Most 'Hero' players play as medics as is, we have people who all they do is snipe, then there's guys like me who avoids other players whenever he can and just hangs out in the woods hunting wildlife and surviving.  He's not going to add a Doctor class, or a Mechanic class, or a Solider class to the game.  Players will do that on their own is what he's saying.

Meh, just wait. The game he talks about... well... If you can't tell how he gets aroused by space station 13... the whole reason why classes exist is because it promotes balance and need for interaction.  Otherwise people always lean toward game mechanic flaws that in turn dictates their 'choice' of how they play.  

[plexico 386]

No classes, please no classes. This doesn't belong in DayZ.

 

Whole point of DayZ is that you choose your story and what you want to be, that is not dictated by the class you chose. Everyone should have equal powers, and the only reason you should have an advantage over someone is because you have better gear.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Plexico

[TheOldManoftheNorth 15]

No classes, please no classes. This doesn't belong in DayZ.

 

Whole point of DayZ is that you choose your story and what you want to be, that is not dictated by the class you chose. Everyone should have equal powers, and the only reason you should have an advantage over someone is because you have better gear

Zombie unicorns and rainbows.  That will NEVER BE THE CASE.  Gaming will always have MECHANICS FLAWS.  You must not have read what I said.  Or thought it through.  Am I the only one that recognizes this? Someone else help me understand why people keep saying this quote above... I admit, I could be narrowsighted on my thoughts and perhaps wrong- but I'd love to hear something novel to contest it.

[TheOldManoftheNorth 15]

Obviously not a 'peer-reviewed' source of what I'm talking about (haha), but something to get people on track. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(online_gaming)

[fluxley 2228]

Having a class system interferes with how players decide to play before they've even started playing. its not possible to have enough different classes to cater for all the varieties of play style.

 

I much prefer the idea of allowing people's actions in game determine how their character develops, 

This can be acheived by having a chance of failure for actions.

e.g If i spend most of my time fixing vehicles over time my success rate will increase.

 

A simple mechanic like this will add immersion and people will grow attached to their characters because if they die they lose a lot more than just gear.

[noMad17 13]

I think the life of a character simply is too short for a set class system. One could argue that you could have a set of skills that you could build up by doing something many times (e.g. performing x blood transfusions will raise the success chance etc.) but as I said, the average lifetime of a character will be too short for something like that. This kind of leads to the "class system" which Rocket was talking about where players will lean towards some type of class defined by the items they carry and mainly are looking for. You will have your medics looking for medical supplies to trade or administer to fellow survivors, you will have your mechanics looking for vehicle parts and tools to repair vehicles. Of course this means you will also have your bandits and wildlife survivors going about their business as usual. I think it's great that the players themselves can select which type of player they want to be without having a set class.

 

Rocket also mentioned that all servers across the world would be connected to a single hive where different item types can only exist x times at the same time which will hopefully lead to a need for trading. We will have our bandits killing people in hope of getting what they need for free but also some friendly trades. We will define how the world will look and behave and that's how it should be. Player types should not be defined by some grand design (i.e. the DayZ crew).

[TheOldManoftheNorth 15]

Again, as I stated earlier- the game that is 'created' by us will be one that caters to mechanic flaws because no one wants to keep getting beached by not exploiting.  This is what I'm getting at.  Ideally, YES I think it would be great what you people continue to bark about, but my point is this will NOT be the case. THEREFORE, in an effort to alleviate this issues, a system the coerces people to play in a manner that arguably resembles more 'real' life than the idea of creating a 'real life' environment.  Get it?

[fluxley 2228]

I get it, i just don't have the confidence in your ability to predict the future that you do.

[plexico 386]

I don't even like the fact that people have different skins based on their actions, I think everyone should start out the same each time they spawn in. And there's always gonna be one class that everyone chooses because it's a little bit overpowered, then they're gonna change that class and everyone is gonna complain it's underpowered, then move onto the next overpowered class and.. see what I mean?

[noMad17 13]

Again, as I stated earlier- the game that is 'created' by us will be one that caters to mechanic flaws because no one wants to keep getting beached by not exploiting.  This is what I'm getting at.  Ideally, YES I think it would be great what you people continue to bark about, but my point is this will NOT be the case. THEREFORE, in an effort to alleviate this issues, a system the coerces people to play in a manner that arguably resembles more 'real' life than the idea of creating a 'real life' environment.  Get it?

Please, expand on these mechanic flaws you're raving about and how do they dictate our playing style? I'd also like to say that implementing a set class system would be bad for the game's dynamic gameplay. Say, if you start out as a lone wolf and select the class "farmer/wildlife expert" and you then find a group of players you want to join, this creates a problem since you've chosen the class best suited for a lone wolf. To function better with a group of players you'd instead have to be a medic, mechanic, scout or any other imaginable class which would be better suited for group play.

 

The point of not having a set class system is so that every player can choose how he wants to play the game given different circumstances. Sometimes during a character lifetime you might play solo or in a smaller group.

I mainly play solo or along with a friend of mine and our playing style changes depending on what's happening around us. Sometimes we go looting for general supplies like food, drink and survivor tools, sometimes we find a vehicle we want to fix and sometimes we encounter some bandits or survivors with an itchy trigger finger. Each of these circumstances calls for a different style of play which would be harder if not impossible with a set class system. I just feel that boredom would set in even faster if you only have one choice. You start playing as a mechanic, you find a vehicle and repair it, then what? Are you going to go look for another vehicle or will you take your vehicle and go looking for survivors to kill?

[TheOldManoftheNorth 15]

Please, expand on these mechanic flaws you're raving about and how do they dictate our playing style? I'd also like to say that implementing a set class system would be bad for the game's dynamic gameplay. Say, if you start out as a lone wolf and select the class "farmer/wildlife expert" and you then find a group of players you want to join, this creates a problem since you've chosen the class best suited for a lone wolf. To function better with a group of players you'd instead have to be a medic, mechanic, scout or any other imaginable class which would be better suited for group play.

 

The point of not having a set class system is so that every player can choose how he wants to play the game given different circumstances. Sometimes during a character lifetime you might play solo or in a smaller group.

I mainly play solo or along with a friend of mine and our playing style changes depending on what's happening around us. Sometimes we go looting for general supplies like food, drink and survivor tools, sometimes we find a vehicle we want to fix and sometimes we encounter some bandits or survivors with an itchy trigger finger. Each of these circumstances calls for a different style of play which would be harder if not impossible with a set class system. I just feel that boredom would set in even faster if you only have one choice. You start playing as a mechanic, you find a vehicle and repair it, then what? Are you going to go look for another vehicle or will you take your vehicle and go looking for survivors to kill?

Did you read my original post? I'm pretty certain its unnecessary to elaborate on a gaming issue that has existed since the inception of videogames.  What I guess I should reiterate from my original post- and probably contributes to the majority of your misconception- is you don't NEED any one of these things. If you want to be the proverbial "jack of all trades", you can.  But there are certain thing(s) you won't be able to achieve- nor would you technically ever need to.  There are no better suited classes for 'lone wolf' gameplay-  as it should be understood that the majority of people playing in a fictitious apocalypse are not cross-trained in many disciplines, which mirrors real life as well.  Do you do your job, and then after work forage for food, then bring it back driving the car you regularly maintain to your house you've recently built and then prepare the food in a manner that is healthy and not susceptible to the ingestion harmful/infectious substances? NO.  All of the scenarios you exemplified only serve to my original statement- to adjust for neutral interaction that would be conducive to cooperative gameplay.  The example you used- "function better with a group of players"... ehh. I'm tired. Don't feel like explaining anymore.  I think you just didn't read the original post. Try again. I'm just looking for some thoughtful commentary on the subject.

[noMad17 13]

Did you read my original post? I'm pretty certain its unnecessary to elaborate on a gaming issue that has existed since the inception of videogames.  What I guess I should reiterate from my original post- and probably contributes to the majority of your misconception- is you don't NEED any one of these things. If you want to be the proverbial "jack of all trades", you can.  But there are certain thing(s) you won't be able to achieve- nor would you technically ever need to.  There are no better suited classes for 'lone wolf' gameplay-  as it should be understood that the majority of people playing in a fictitious apocalypse are not cross-trained in many disciplines, which mirrors real life as well.  Do you do your job, and then after work forage for food, then bring it back driving the car you regularly maintain to your house you've recently built and then prepare the food in a manner that is healthy and not susceptible to the ingestion harmful/infectious substances? NO.  All of the scenarios you exemplified only serve to my original statement- to adjust for neutral interaction that would be conducive to cooperative gameplay.  The example you used- "function better with a group of players"... ehh. I'm tired. Don't feel like explaining anymore.  I think you just didn't read the original post. Try again. I'm just looking for some thoughtful commentary on the subject.

Yes, I read your original post and there you want players to choose between being a medic, a farmer or a soldier and basically saying that only a medic can handle medical supplies, only a mechanic can repair a fully damaged vehicle and only a soldier can handle military grade equipment. And this will damage the dynamic gameplay where if I choose to be a soldier and play solo I can't repair a vehicle or inject myself with morphine. What I'm saying is that in a real zombie apocalypse it wouldn't matter if you were trained in a certain profession as you'd probably have to learn how to do these things to survive anyway. There's where I could see some sort of skill system (NOT class) IF it wasn't for the quite low average lifetime of a character.

 

I get the feeling you're avoiding to elaborate on exactly what mechanics you're actually talking about. What mechanics in this game dictates the way we CHOOSE to play? You say you're looking for thoughtful commentary but I'd say you just don't want to listen to anything anyone has to say that counters your opinion. I remain certain that banditry would be as present as it is now despite introducing a set class system because this is the way many players choose to play the game. Even now I see some diversity, it's not just black and white, not bandits or bambis. I myself will only shoot on sight if I feel threatened by another player, especially up north by the NWAF or Stary since most hostile players go there. If I see someone running around with a melee weapon or no weapon at all I'll leave them alone or help them. People are just looking out for themselves, as they would in a real life apocalypse, you shouldn't be trusting anyone, especially if they have a weapon.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Yes, I read your original post and there you want players to choose between being a medic, a farmer or a soldier and basically saying that only a medic can handle medical supplies, only a mechanic can repair a fully damaged vehicle and only a soldier can handle military grade equipment. And this will damage the dynamic gameplay where if I choose to be a soldier and play solo I can't repair a vehicle or inject myself with morphine. What I'm saying is that in a real zombie apocalypse it wouldn't matter if you were trained in a certain profession as you'd probably have to learn how to do these things to survive anyway. There's where I could see some sort of skill system (NOT class) IF it wasn't for the quite low average lifetime of a character.

I may be wrong, but this is what Rocket wants to go for, the more you do something, the better you'll be at it (though with the short average lifespan, it wont be something like 'repair 100 items' to skill up, it'll be like 5 repairs and you get a little better till you reach a cap, then when you die your back to 0 for everything).  A Dev made class system (where you choose what class you're going to play as before you start playing, IE WoW) has pretty much been confirmed to not be in game.

Edited July 24, 2013 by BigMike

[TheOldManoftheNorth 15]

Yes, I read your original post and there you want players to choose between being a medic, a farmer or a soldier and basically saying that only a medic can handle medical supplies, only a mechanic can repair a fully damaged vehicle and only a soldier can handle military grade equipment. 

This is where I stopped reading your post.  The only thing I did is go back and reread it to make sure I'm not missing something.  Perhaps I was vague.  This is NOT AT ALL What I was saying.  In the interest of 'possibly' saving time, I'll use an example-

 

You start with a BASIC skill set.  One that if you spend an hour or two in the game you can gain. But this skill set can eventually, though a long time of gameplay unlock an 'expert' skill set unavailable to anyone who didn't choose this route. 

 

       Ex- Spawn as rural civ (farmer) or whatever = knows how to gut/clean wild game, knows what water is ok, what needs purifying etc.  You encounter a vehicle.  You scavenge and find car battery and attempt to install.  Success!!! +1 mechanic. You find a tire and attempt to change the tire and horraaaaay success! +1 mechanic attrib.  Engineparts yatta yatta.... Fail! You're not a "intermediate" mechanic level yet.  Scavenge find and engine repair manual.  +2 mechanic. you're now an "intermediate".  ZOMBIE!!! You're injured, your arm is bleeding and be it you have morphine, you attempt to administer.... OOPS!! You currently suck at medicine right now and admin the deltoid injection directly into the artery... now you've got histamine modulated nitric oxide release and it causes your arm to vasodilate- you're bleeding out badly.  You encounter people that have a car and and engine but don't have skill level to fix yet. Thankfully, they have an expert medical person. You say "fix me, I fix your car."  HORRAAAYYYY!!!! Recall, you're a FARMER. Not a mechanic.  Now this is clearly above how far I wanted to even think into my own idea (or at least what I have the time for) but lets go back to that scenario if you're a decided mechanic... you encounter a HELI or something.  Maybe someone has a BADLY damaged engine.  This requires EXPERT level mechanics, and you've become this through your efforts.  NOW YOURE VALUABLE ABOVE others. This VALUE is MASKED.  People don't know this about you. ANYONE you encounter (or someone else) may be VALUABLE as well in the same respect.  Therefore, NEUTRAL interaction must occur in order to determine this value and the usefulness of this person.  This opens up a world of other things, because you don't really know what the other person has to offer...and for bandits- it could make them salivate at the possiblity of hostage imprisonment, etc etc.  Get creative.  You cannot KILL AND TAKE THESE THINGS.  This is why it should be implemented.  Currently, why bother to find out what they have... I can pull their items off their corpse.  

 

Now, can someone just kill you? Sure.  

Can someone be an ass and live out their mass murdering dreams? Absolutely.  

Can people go lone wolf? YES.  

 

You don't NEED to be an expert at anything.  But everyone talks about "real world simulation" etc etc... think about one thing you're good at, and one thing you suck at.  Now remove google and tell me, in a hostile, unforgiving environment- how good do you think you'll become at that thing you suck at.  Classes don't predetermine gameplay... they simulate what you suck at and what you're good at.  Yes, you can get better. Yes, some people have multiple talents. But even a manual, or in the instance of my morphine 'joke' a Gray's Anatomy or PDR wont help you become a physician. 

 

Does this better elaborate? And once again, I refuse to go into the hole that is 'game mechanics' drama or anything of the sort.  These things can be positive or negative but regardless, exist.  I listed the wikipedia link, read it and be creative. 

[TheDesigner 1197]

Don't like the idea about spawning based on 'class'. It's months after the initial infection. Dunno about you but if I was a doctor/nurse I would not hang around a hospital all that time just because I'm a doctor/nurse. I'd be either cowering in my house or out in the forest avoiding zombies. I'd much prefer everyone spawn on the coast as a 'noob' (assuming skills don't transfer over after death), or even at 'random' points at the edge of the map (near a road or path or something)

Since there's no official DayZ story, we don't know if its days or months after the infection.

I think this idea has been suggested several times and the general consensus is "no".