A Plea To The Devs For Law And Order in Dayz SA

[freeman83 51]

Hi,

recently i have been thinking about how law and order can be brought back to cherno in SA, i thought about starting a vigilante group to hunt criminals, then i thought why not assemble a full on police force and enforce real world laws. Maybe even include courts of law. But then a few problems arise, how to capture, restrain, and hold a criminal? Without the ability to grab or knock out the offender (without causing them to bleed to death), then handcuff or tie them up it makes the task impossible. So here is a short list of things i think will be needed to allow players to enforce the law in dayz SA.

ability to restrain then cuff or tie up a player

ability to carry a player on shoulder

ability to place a player in a vehicle

lockable cell doors in the prison being built for cherno or in other buildings

non lethal weapons, tranq gun, tazer, tear gas, rubber bullets, throwable net...etc.

ability to force feed player? (place holder) cant think of a better idea to keep a player alive whilst detained if they choose to starve themselves.

I have heard rocket talk about wanting to decrease the amount of K.O.S. and increase player interactivity and cooperation. What stops most people in Nations across the world from committing the kinds of crimes seen in dayz?, an obvious answer... the consequences mostly brought about by the law. so i am asking for the means to allow players in dayz to capture and hold players if they choose to.

There are so many possibilities but i like the idea of having a green zone in cherno created and protected by players and where life can flurrish and maybe even a place where sunday markets can operate like the apocalypse didnt even happen =).

I also think it would be fun for criminals to try to escape from detention, or perhaps their freinds may attempt an over the top hollywood jail break =).

Edited July 3, 2013 by freeman83

[Dagwood 680]

Two words to kill your interesting yet impossible idea: combat logging

[freeman83 51]

Two words to kill your interesting yet impossible idea: combat logging

My bad, i forgot to specify the ideas are for SA

[CoolCain10 55]

I like it but I would just taze people and take em to jail for no-reason.

[freeman83 51]

I like it but I would just taze people and take em to jail for no-reason.

Careful, that would be a crime =)

[Dagwood 680]

How are they going to prevent combat logging in the SA? Not saying I don't believe you; I just haven't heard anything about that. It's easily my most hated game mechanic along with ghosting so I hope they can figure out a way to stop it

[Rage VG 4033]

As I've said before, being able to force a player to do something indefinitely is a Horrible idea. It's only going to be used to grief.

[freeman83 51]

As I've said before, being able to force a player to do something indefinitely is a Horrible idea. It's only going to be used to grief.

It's horrible but i personally think it is "authentic", as Rocket describes the dayz experience. Perma death by itself hasn't been much of a consequence or detterent when you can quickly join another server. How else will KOS be reduced without the kind of consequences i mentioned above. If the law obideing people of cherno stick together and organise well enough to create a united force then bandits will get the most grief.

Edited July 3, 2013 by freeman83

[GBTP 114]

Definitely like this idea, but the important thing is how to balance a good idea with the ways it would be abused.

For example: Players would be handcuffing people left and right and leaving them in the forest to have to wait until they starve to death to respawn.

What would the balance be to maintain player freedom but limit feature abuse?

Edited for clarity.

Edited July 3, 2013 by GBTP

[freeman83 51]

I like your idea, but the important thing is how to balance a good idea with the ways it would be abused.

For example: Players would be handcuffing people left and right and leaving them in the forest to have to wait until they starve to death to respawn.

Where is the balance to maintain player freedom but limit feature abuse?

Limit the restraints to things like cable tie's/zip ties and rope, that players can escape from in a reasonable amount of time, perhaps with a mini game. It gives a law enforcer enough time to lock up a criminal, and a victim of abuse a chance to escape.. thats Just one idea, let me think about it and i will reply later. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my idea.

Edited July 3, 2013 by freeman83

[Dagwood 680]

How about you just hunt down the players that are breaking your "laws" and use some good ole street justice. No phony imprisonment necessary. I know if my character was "detained" I would just play a different server or a different game. I don't want to spend my evening in a cell that I can just walk away from

[freeman83 51]

How about you just hunt down the players that are breaking your "laws" and use some good ole street justice. No phony imprisonment necessary. I know if my character was "detained" I would just play a different server or a different game. I don't want to spend my evening in a cell that I can just walk away from

good it sounds like the idea of imprisonment is having the desired effect =). I understand your repulsion of the idea, but can you see how effective it would be?

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

I would not be looking to keep prisoners, The loot available to feed and keep them would be too valuable to take someone as a prisoner, unless I was being paid a la Bounty hunter style.

Some of your ideas would be great for non killing robbing.

[BwobBwub 660]

This would ruin DayZ (opinion).

A bandit? Brb calling the armed police.

These are what Heroes are for, to take out bandits.

The non-lethal weapons were good though.

Edited July 3, 2013 by BwobBwub

[GBTP 114]

Limit the restraints to things like cable tie's/zip ties and rope, that players can escape from in a reasonable amount of time, perhaps with a mini game. Just one idea, let me think about it and i will reply later. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my idea.

I like that, Or maybe a timer for escaping restraints similar to the time used for falling unconscious in the mod, the detainer would need to micromanage retightening the restraints every 5 minutes or so, or just need to maintain proximity (Something like the further the detainer got away from the detained, the quicker the timer would clear).

Definitely not a flaw in the idea, the idea is sound; just playing devils advocate.

[freeman83 51]

I would not be looking to keep prisoners, The loot available to feed and keep them would be too valuable to take someone as a prisoner, unless I was being paid a la Bounty hunter style.

Some of your ideas would be great for non killing robbing.

Your right, your comment points out why a police force would have to be well organised and equipped and trained otherwise it wouldn't work, just like real life. being a law enforcer in cherno would be quite realistic when you think about it.

[Rage VG 4033]

It's horrible but i personally think it is "authentic", as Rocket describes the dayz experience. Perma death by itself hasn't been much of a consequence or detterent when you can quickly join another server. How else will KOS be reduced without the kind of consequences i mentioned above. If the law obideing people of cherno stick together and organise well enough to create a united force then bandits will get the most grief.

However authentic it may be, there are boundaries that you cross because no matter how realistic your game is, it's still a game. People play it to enjoy them, and being indefinitely prevented from moving at ALL, or even kill themselves if they decide their gear isn't worth being unable to play is NOT fun at all.

"How else will KoS be reduced"? That's the thing; it doesn't. KoS is a part of the game that you actually can do something about. Trusting nobody immediately eliminates the possibility that you get shot in the fact by someone who tricked you into thinking they are friendly. Of course that comes with the negative that you'll be unable to negotiate with the few people who are legitimately friendly. That is the trade-off, and people are entirely welcome to make that choice.

In addition to my idea of never supporting an update that allows someone to indefinitely incap someone, I also would never support an update that is aimed SOLELY at changing player mentality. That is truly how you kill the authenticity, by making players play in a way they wouldn't instinctively play.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Rage VG

[Korsbaek 1778]

I would loooove sitting 4 hours in a cell in a game because some douche thought it was funny to put me there

[GBTP 114]

I think you guys are focusing too much on the negative aspects of what the mechanics *could* be instead of the concept that OP is trying to convey. There are many ways that this idea as it was stated wouldn't work, but there are some great ideas between the lines there, and just talking about how this wont work is counter productive when you could be helping expand the concept into a workable and fun mechanic that you would enjoy seeing.

Edited for grammar

Edited July 3, 2013 by GBTP

[freeman83 51]

However authentic it may be, there are boundaries that you cross because no matter how realistic your game is, it's still a game. People play it to enjoy them, and being indefinitely prevented from moving at ALL, or even kill themselves if they decide their gear isn't worth being unable to play is NOT fun at all.

"How else will KoS be reduced"? That's the thing; it doesn't. KoS is a part of the game that you actually can do something about. Trusting nobody immediately eliminates the possibility that you get shot in the fact by someone who tricked you into thinking they are friendly. Of course that comes with the negative that you'll be unable to negotiate with the few people who are legitimately friendly. That is the trade-off, and people are entirely welcome to make that choice.

In addition to my idea of never supporting an update that allows someone to indefinitely incap someone, I also would never support an update that is aimed SOLELY at changing player mentality. That is truly how you kill the authenticity, by making players play in a way they wouldn't instinctively play.

I don't like the idea of forcing anything on anybody either, but i agree with rocket when he talks about giving players the tools to play dayz however they want. If somebody wants to be a killer and go around killing as many noobs as possible then fine, If a group of players decide they want to enforce the law or even do something crazy like open a night club in cherno then the freedom to do whatever the imagination allows is good for dayz SA imo. For example these new radios that have been added to sa are awesome, can you imagine the crazy things people will be broadcasting =).

Edited July 3, 2013 by freeman83

[Rage VG 4033]

I don't like the idea of forcing anything on anybody either, but i agree with rocket when he talks about giving players the tools to play dayz however they want. If somebody wants to be a killer and go around killing as many noobs as possible then fine, If a group of players decide they want to enforce the law or even do something crazy like open a night club in cherno then the freedom to do whatever the imagination allows is good for dayz SA imo. For example these new radios that have been added to sa are awesome, can you imagine the crazy things people will be broadcasting =).

But these are mechanics that players have absolutely no way of avoiding. I can duck out of a gunfight if I don't want part in it, I can tune out my radio if I don't want to hear it, but tied up and force-fed? No. That is aggravating, humiliating and literally nothing but those two things. I would legitimately kill my process and never play the game again the minute I was caught. And like every other time this has been suggested, proposing that there would be a way to escape then makes it literally useless for anything besides a mild annoyance (which is EXACTLY what griefers want to do) since when you release yourself, you're either going to get shot, thus defeating the purpose of just not shooting you in the first place, or you're going to shoot them, meaning that anyone who wanted to use it for a legitimate purpose is just going to get themselves killed. And tacking on a whole "Being able to manually stop them escaping" would, yet again, defeat the purpose of having the ability to escape in the first place, thus making it an insanely stupid tool for trolls and griefers.

Secondly, enforcing ANY law is against the nature of the game. It's not giving people freedom to play how they want, it's giving a random group of people freedom to ruin the game for the people who don't play how that group wants by LITERALLY (not an exaggeration, not "technically" or anything, but LITERALLY) preventing them from doing ANYTHING for as long as they want.

That screams terrible.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Rage VG

[Dagwood 680]

Think Stanford prison experiment. Lots of people would just take it too far and very little good would come of it. We already have enough trouble with admins abusing their power and lessening the experience for others. We don't need to build a legitimate mechanic to allow more game ruining by one player to another. If you are really that upset at someone who TRULY deserves to be punished, knock them out and drag them around until you think they've learned their lesson. If you're actually willing to waste your time punishing another player like that so be it. But it should also cost the punisher to exact punishment on the "criminal"

[enforcer1975 1111]

How about you just hunt down the players that are breaking your "laws" and use some good ole street justice. No phony imprisonment necessary. I know if my character was "detained" I would just play a different server or a different game. I don't want to spend my evening in a cell that I can just walk away from

That's what some players causing grief to others thought when they were imprisoned in Sahrani Life...they played another game and waited until their penalty time was over, the admin changed the script so if they reconnect they still have to serve their sentence, after that a penalty was what it was supposed to be.

Good old martial law would be good enough. Either take away their stuff and let them run, hang them, shoot them whatever. No need for a prison especially when there is no more working law system.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Enforcer

[DemonGroover 8836]

If players were limited to one username only then i could see a bounty hunting system working out. It would have to be player driven though - a player wants a bandit dead he could leave a message somewhere or set up shop and give out bounties. A bounty hunter could roam the land and hunt down bandits for a payment - who knows?

Bandits would become infamous due to their deeds and heroes would be (well, heroes) due to theirs.

However, i am no fan of the capture and tie up suggestion. What could be worse than being captured and kept hostage forever in a game?

[enforcer1975 1111]

There is one major flaw in this idea. Players should be bound to a server for their entire avatars life or else it will not work really well. If they constantly jump servers who knows where they will be next? You have to give the pursuers a chance to get the guy, too.