badluckburt 974 Posted July 1, 2013 You say I talk out of my ass even though you admit what I said is true: Killing made you feel good in the moment.He didn't admit anything of the sort, you need to learn how to read.Studying psychology doesn't make you an expert either, I would love for some psychologist to try and pick me apart to see where I 'fit'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Death_Dealer 3155 Posted July 1, 2013 I don't think killing is really wrong. There are many valid reasons to kill someone. And I don't think it's wrong to feel good about it either, it's only human.I think "many" is stretching it a bit far, unless you want to share "many" valid reasons to commit murder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozelot (DayZ) 394 Posted July 1, 2013 Studying psychology doesn't make you an expert eitherActually, it does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheDesigner 1197 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Why do you assume I have done no research? I study psychology for a living.The fact that you make this wide distinction between 'psychopaths' and 'normal' people shows your fundamental misunderstanding of what psychopathy actually is. Psychopaths and as you put it 'normal' people are still equivalent under the distinction of being human beings first and foremost.Hearsay based on what your 'grandpa in vietnam' told you does not make you an expert.Shit, you can study something for your whole life, but that sure as hell doesn't make you any good at it. It's quite obvious when you start saying all humans are born killers and no one feels regret for killing.I do know what a psychopath is, I don't have to study the humorous subject of psychology to know it. I've dealt with both schizophrenics and ego maniacs in my family. Edited July 1, 2013 by TheDesigner 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badluckburt 974 Posted July 1, 2013 Actually, it does.Really? So if I take up studying psychology, that means I'll be an instant expert....cool! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Death_Dealer 3155 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Actually, it does.Not exactly.If I went and 'studied' a Wikipedia page on diseases, does that make me an expert on it? No.You haven't experienced killing first-hand either, Walking Wounded however, has. He stated that the euphoric feeling came from him realizing he was still alive, not from actually killing the person. Edited July 1, 2013 by Death Dealer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozelot (DayZ) 394 Posted July 1, 2013 Shit, you can study something for your whole life, but that sure as hell doesn't make you any good at it. It's quite obvious when you start saying all humans are born killers and no one feels regret for killing.I do know what a psychopath is, I don't have to study the humorous subject of psychology to know it.You may want to review this table and reconsider your current stance on argument. Researching your own points is a very important aspect of being right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozelot (DayZ) 394 Posted July 1, 2013 Really? So if I take up studying psychology, that means I'll be an instant expert....cool!I have studied in this field for five years. Someone who has done at least some research is more likely to be better informed than someone who has done none at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badluckburt 974 Posted July 1, 2013 I have studied in this field for five years. Someone who has done at least some research is more likely to be better informed than someone who has done none at all.Just take a look at that pyramid you posted. You said yourself that you're an expert and now you're just 'better informed'. I'm done here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozelot (DayZ) 394 Posted July 1, 2013 Just take a look at that pyramid you posted. You said yourself that you're an expert and now you're just 'better informed'. I'm done here.You are done. Because you're simply incorrect.I never said I was expert, in fact. I said studying makes you one. You are right however in saying that I am better informed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WBK 176 Posted July 1, 2013 Ozelot you claim to be an expert in psychology, touting your knowledge by sprouting random conjecture. I don't doubt that you study it, and I don't doubt that you might actually know a few things. Studying something however, does not an expert make. I studied it for 3 years and wouldn't dare call myself an expert on the matter. Also, you have backed up literally nothing with facts, only with throwaway statements that are the bread and butter of the foolish. It's easy to say anything and pass it off as fact. It's another thing entirely to show us the proof. I'm not even shitting you, I literally want sources for every comment you make. Otherwise it's bullshit. The human psyche operates from the parameters of 'completely psychopathic' to 'completely altruistic' and everything in between, but just because you might be reading about someone on the fringes of lunacy doesn't mean that there aren't thousands more in the middle ground experiencing psychosomatic distress from killing or even witnessing killing.With regards to what Walking Wounded said, you couldn't be more childish by molesting what he said and turning it into something that fits your argument. I don't want to know why or how WW killed someone, but I do know you're a twit for just gleefully skipping around what he said and using it for your own sake.And as for that pyramid of yours, I suggest you take a look at it as well, you definitely haven't gone past the contradiction stage, and I would dare say you haven't even gotten that far.I was genuinely interested in this topic when you posted it, but now you've just turned it into a megaphone for drowning everyone else in your own opinion. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Death_Dealer 3155 Posted July 1, 2013 Ozelot, you proved yourself wrong and contracted yourself in your own post. That's pretty low. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozelot (DayZ) 394 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Ozelot you claim to be an expert in psychology, touting your knowledge by sprouting random conjecture. I don't doubt that you study it, and I don't doubt that you might actually know a few things. Studying something however, does not an expert make. I studied it for 3 years and wouldn't dare call myself an expert on the matter. Also, you have backed up literally nothing with facts, only with throwaway statements that are the bread and butter of the foolish. It's easy to say anything and pass it off as fact. It's another thing entirely to show us the proof. I'm not even shitting you, I literally want sources for every comment you make. Otherwise it's bullshit. The human psyche operates from the parameters of 'completely psychopathic' to 'completely altruistic' and everything in between, but just because you might be reading about someone on the fringes of lunacy doesn't mean that there aren't thousands more in the middle ground experiencing psychosomatic distress from killing or even witnessing killing.With regards to what Walking Wounded said, you couldn't be more childish by molesting what he said and turning it into something that fits your argument. I don't want to know why or how WW killed someone, but I do know you're a twit for just gleefully skipping around what he said and using it for your own sake.And as for that pyramid of yours, I suggest you take a look at it as well, you definitely haven't gone past the contradiction stage, and I would dare say you haven't even gotten that far.I was genuinely interested in this topic when you posted it, but now you've just turned it into a megaphone for drowning everyone else in your own opinion.I could not possibly begin to explain the exact mechanisms that makes human beings enjoy the act of killing so gleefully as they do, without beginning to write a veritable novel on the amount of reference material that reasserts what I am saying. But basically it all starts in the risk/reward center of our brains. When human beings engage in the act of killing and survive, feelings of elation and euphoria immediately follow, just as WW described. This happens because we feel we have 'won' and our opponent has 'lost.' That is a simple summary at least as I can give.Whether or not human beings feel guilt by default over the act of killing is another debate and something that is not completely clear yet. We do know however, that guilt as an emotional response is not a phenomenon humans tend to feel until they are pressured by other humans in their social stratus to feel that way. The act of killing has always been looked down on upon in different social spheres, but it has also been reinforced by various parties, especially in nomadic marauder collections of humans. Edited July 1, 2013 by Ozelot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WBK 176 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) See, how hard was that? That is a fairly reasonable response, not backed by sources but at least you explained your point calmly and used what anyone could assume was established knowledge in the field of psychology. For once you acknowledged there is two sides to the coin, and I'd be happy to give you beans if you hadn't comprehensively shat me up the wall for the last hour.You've finally reached the counterargument stage, how does it feel?EDIT: I thoroughly re-read your post and realised you hadn't changed anything... Edited July 1, 2013 by WBK Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WBK 176 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) I could not possibly begin to explain the exact mechanismsTry. Otherwise everyone else calls bullshit.Human beings enjoy the act of killing so gleefully as they do, without beginning to write a veritable novel on the amount of reference material that reasserts what I am saying.Stop trying to use big words and say something worthwhile. Something that isn't "humans enjoy killing" with no evidence to support it.But basically it all starts in the risk/reward center of our brains.Whatever you're trying to say makes no sense. If killing is primal, as everyone agrees, where does risk/reward factor into this?When human beings engage in the act of killing and survive, feelings of elation and euphoria immediately sometimes follow soon after, just as WW described. This happens because we feel we have 'won' and our opponent has 'lost.'You need to stop saying this. He mentioned he felt euphoric because he was still alive. It wasn't about something trivial like winning or losing. That's the problem with your argument style. Stop taking things out of context and making them into absolutes. Also, just because exceptional cases display feelings of elation and euphoria after killing, does not make it so for all people. You must justify this.Whether or not human beings feel guilt by default over the act of killing is another debate and something that is not completely clear yet. We do know however, that guilt as an emotional response is not a phenomenon humans tend to feel until they are pressured by other humans in their social stratus to feel that way. The act of killing has always been looked down on upon in different social spheres, but it has also been reinforced by various parties, especially in nomadic marauder collections of humans.Actually not a bad paragraph, I have no qualms here. Edited July 1, 2013 by WBK 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
s4pphire 45 Posted July 1, 2013 To a certain extent, maybe.In real-life respawning isn't quite as simple unless you believe in the bearded man in the sky so most people would probably feel more inclined to kill out of need rather than entertainment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ImageCtrl 719 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) start @ 7:20 Edited July 1, 2013 by NoCheats Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheDesigner 1197 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) You may want to review this table and reconsider your current stance on argument. Researching your own points is a very important aspect of being right.What? I mean at least I try and defend my points. You on the other hand, you don't respond to anyone's claims, you just post more shite and refuse to have a proper argument. So far I've done none of this, so I'm wondering what you're getting at?Whether or not human beings feel guilt by default over the act of killing is another debate and something that is not completely clear yet. We do know however, that guilt as an emotional response is not a phenomenon humans tend to feel until they are pressured by other humans in their social stratus to feel that way. The act of killing has always been looked down on upon in different social spheres, but it has also been reinforced by various parties, especially in nomadic marauder collections of humans.There are studies to show this? Or did you find this out just now by "researching" it. I was genuinely interested in this so I tried to do some reasearch..Funny thing was, I couldn't fine anything on humans being prone to NOT feel guilty when not "pressured" by others. Now I don't want to state this as fact because it's wikipedia, but if you actually find evidence to refte it, please do.Evolutionary Theories: Some evolutionary psychologists theorize that guilt and shame helped maintain beneficial relationships, such as reciprocal altruism.[19] If a person feels guilty when he harms another, or even fails to reciprocate kindness, he is more likely not to harm others or become too selfish. In this way, he reduces the chances of retaliation by members of his tribe, and thereby increases his survival prospects, and those of the tribe or group. As with any other emotion, guilt can be manipulated to control or influence others. As a highly social animal living in large groups that are relatively stable, we need ways to deal with conflicts and events in which we inadvertently or purposefully harm others. If someone causes harm to another, and then feels guilt and demonstrates regret and sorrow, the person harmed is likely to forgive. Thus, guilt makes it possible to forgive, and helps hold the social group together. Lack of guilt in pyschopaths:Psychopaths lack any true sense of guilt or remorse for harm they may have caused to others. Instead, they rationalize their behavior, blame someone else, or deny it outright.[15] This is seen by psychologists as part of a lack of moral reasoning (in comparison with the majority of humans), an inability to evaluate situations in a moral framework, and an inability to develop emotional bonds with other people.[16]Also known as sociopathy or antisocial personality disorder, this psychopathic lack of guilt used to be termed 'moral insanity'.[17] However, others suggest that the psychopath is in fact driven by a very severe but unconscious sense of guilt. I didn't find anything in there on being caused in some cases because of social pressure, so please do point me to the nearest study that says so. These are just theories and on Wikipedia, but I can assume that the people who wrote them know what they are talking about.I'd also like to quote this, "This is seen by psychologists as part of a lack of moral reasoning (in comparison with the majority of humans)" Edited July 1, 2013 by TheDesigner 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozelot (DayZ) 394 Posted July 1, 2013 Its' funny you think wikipedia is a verifiable source on these matters. There's a reason college professors don't allow research done on it to be included in class papers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boshed 29 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Its' funny you think wikipedia is a verifiable source on these matters. There's a reason college professors don't allow research done on it to be included in class papers.It's more verifiable than what you have wrote and this isn't a PhD thesis, this is a forum, on the internet about a game...Other parties are trying to progress the discussion with hypothesis and your'e just being a bigot and not coming back with any rebuttal.Edit - Just noticed your other thread, which explains everything about your attitude by the way you responded there Edited July 1, 2013 by Boshed 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jamz 253 Posted July 1, 2013 Do I think that DayZ's player killing simulates real life authenticity? No.Whereas there would be plenty of killing in such a situation, particularly in the initial stages, I don't think it would be quite how it is in the game and I don't think KOS would be as 'popular'. I think the misstrust people would have with strangers would be overridden to a degree by the threat of the infection, people who realise its threat would look to join with others but the misstrust would still be there.Human beings can be savage but not for no reason, only the mentally damaged would kill if there was nothing in it for them and they would not survive for long.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jman 8 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Nope. Not even close. People are not going to go around murdering everyone they see. Those that do will die very very quickly. People will group up for the common good and others will group up for bad. Anyone that thinks they are an ultra uber navy seal spetnaz ninja that going to KOS and slaughter the hundreds or thousands of people in his area is going to die in real life. You are going to have to work together for protection and survival. You will also have to work together for murder and pillaging. KOS just wont work. People have done the same in the past and I see no reason they wouldn't in an even worse future scenario. It really is sad and a little scary that so many people on here think RL will look like an FPS free for all death match with everyone running around in the streets shooting everyone else. Edited July 1, 2013 by veprman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sula 1205 Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) I wouldn't "just murder" anyone in an apocalypse. However, I would kill anyone who threatened me or my family without a third thought. I'd given them the second thought though. :thumbsup: I really don't know if the game does reflect reality. No guns where I live, generally peaceful life, so it's hard for me to say. :) Edited July 1, 2013 by Sula Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zombie Jesus 723 Posted July 1, 2013 Its' funny you think wikipedia is a verifiable source on these matters. There's a reason college professors don't allow research done on it to be included in class papers.2002 called and wants their argument back. While Wikipedia is far from perfect it is no longer a repository of faulty sources it once was and links to scholarly sources in the footnotes (it links to this while discussing the evolutionary theories of guilt Pallanti S, Quercioli L. "Shame and psychopathology"). It is also a very reliable quick source for knowledge when looking into a subject. Sorry most of us do not want to respond to your freshman psychology course reading by going out to the library to compile the necessary research to complete a research paper, we are in fact on a game forum and not submitting a doctoral thesis. As far as your thesis goes you gloss over the fact that humans are also predisposed to forming groups. The "KoS" mentality would exist but in a far less aggressive fashion as the current game offers. People would be wary of outsiders and would treat those outside the group as a threat, but it would not rise to the levels seen in this game. Claiming the feeling of guilt is only present around peers is also absurd, if it was a cultural construct you would find cultures where guilt was non existent. Guilt pops up in every human culture so we can reason that it is not a cultural construct that requires peers but is hardwired part of our evolution that served a purpose in the past. So part of your argument is valid, humans do have a propensity for violence that is reflected in this mod. Where you lose people is by claiming other natural human instincts would all go out the window just because of an apocalypse scenario. You do not even touch on the fact that every single one of the people in this scenario would also have been influenced by their culture pre apocalypse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Claw 26 Posted July 1, 2013 KoS doesn't happen in real life, lol. You don't walk in to an icecream shop and just get one between eyes because the cashier is feeling bandit-y.Also, New Orleans was horrible. Those people should be ashamed. Look at all the disasters in Oklahoma and those tornado alley places. They work together to clean things up and look for survivors.It's also filled with acts of kindness.lol ? kos most def does happen in RL- visit joberg in SA or bogata etc etc ( or even run down areas of most citys ) and why ? the comparison with dayz would be that the aforementioned places are struck with tough political standards and ppl are poor and need to survive? they have easier access to weapons than someone living in a nice middle class area due to the enviroment they live in and as such are bitter and angry with the world.In dayz why with the mod being full of weapons would anyone scratch their head for it not to exist is beyond me ( the only why to change it in dayz is with factions and punishment for tk within them)In regards to natural distasters etc i can guarante you 100 % there will always be a percentage of ppl that will be on the make or doing dastadly deads. To put it very simple " good " wouldnt exist without bad ( as sad as it sounds ) the word has no meaning without its's oposite. Mankind has ( and still does ) do horible things over the years, unfortunatley human nature is so individual and hard to predict that you cant guarante one type of behaviour as we are all such individuals deep down ( why comunism doesnt work in all countrys without years of conditiioning )History is littered with acts of kindness as is with acts of evil- its quite simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites