Sanity?

[JoeM (DayZ) 41]

I don't know if this has been discussed before but I have an idea for a new feature for SA. I searched for it and nothing came up.

Sanity.

I imagine it would be quite mentally difficult to have to survive a zombie apocalypse and if anyone has seen the films there always seems to be one person in the group or someone that they meet who has gone insane so it got me thinking that maybe there should be a sanity meter, a bit like humanity I guess. If your sanity is positive you are not insane, if it goes negative you start going insane, and the further it goes the worse the effects get. I think I have some potentially good ideas for the effects of sanity.

What makes sanity decrease?

Well here are some of my ideas:

-Being alone. I would think that being alone in such a difficult situation would start to have negative effects, and whenever you are alone your sanity should decrease. Only slowly to begin with but the longer you go alone the faster it decreases.

-Killing survivors. Personally I don't think that IRL I could actually kill someone, maybe I could if it was me or them but thankfully I have never been put in that situation. However I think most people would struggle killing people over and over again with no actual contact to people.

-Being unclean/underfed/thirsty etc. Not very good for morale to be constantly dirty, hungry and thirsty. Your sanity should not decrease every time you have these but if you have these factors against you for longer amounts of time. Being constantly in this state then your sanity should suffer, I don't know how people react when they have these effects but it probably isn't good. Being constantly on the edge of hunger/thirst/unclean, e.g living on the edge, eating/drinking just enough to survive should start to lower sanity.

What makes sanity increase?

Again just a few of my ideas (and basically the opposite of the decreasing factors):

-Being in groups. To have human interaction in these situations would be good. Say, when you meet someone you can greet them in some way so the game can acknowledge that you know they are there (to avoid increasing sanity when you don't even know someone is close). A handshake or something, then whenever you are in a 50m radius of that person your sanity increases. The idea is that you are talking to them and just generally taking your mind off the whole zombie thing.

-Helping people, bandaging wounds, giving food/drink and all those other good things should increase sanity. Not too sure about this one.

-Opposite of above. Maintaining personal hygiene, keeping well fed and well watered should provide a boost in sanity. Just generally keeping moral high.

What are the effects of being insane?

Now this is the interesting part. I will say that there should be no benefits of being sane, the only benefits will be that you are not insane.

Just some ideas, feel free to post some below.

-Hearing things. Running through the forest and out of nowhere you hear a gunshot or zombie but only you hear it and the source is nowhere to be seen, would scare the **** out of me.

-Hallucinations. Just like hearing things, but on a visual level. Only for the people who have a very negative sanity level. But potentially seeing people that aren't there from seconds to up to minutes. These visions would run around like normal people, appear to shoot possibly. They may shoot you (doing nothing of course) and you can shoot them (again doing nothing) then after some seconds your player will snap out of it and will see normally again

-Flashbacks. Don't know how this would effect the server but the server could potentially save a small video clip of where you have killed someone and at a random time play it back to you, so you could be running along and suddenly you have this flashback of where you killed a survivor. Or you could just be running along and hear the screams of the player you shot.

-Forgetting to do basic actions. You might tell your player to do something but he has a mental slip and fails whatever he is doing, maybe even something simple like reloading a magazine. I am no mental health expert and I don't know what insanity does to people but I know there are different types and possible something like this exists.

Few extra notes

This should only affect long term survivors. Simply, it should only increase and decrease slowly so only long term exposure will alter it significantly. After all, I don't think many people will turn insane after a day.

It could possibly replace humanity entirely, after all it seems to be the same sort of thing

There should be different levels of sanity. Everyone that is positive is quite simply not insane, then once you hit the negatives it gets worse and worse unless you counter it. At say, -100 then you maybe should forget some basic things and once it hits -5000 then you start the hallucinations.

Problem is that some people are more mentally tough than others, but then again some people are faster/stronger/better and this is also not displayed in game.

It may promote teaming up more, and less of the KoS attitude. Hopefully less pointless killing if being insane is truly detrimental to survival.

Sanity should not be transferred character to character, like humanity currently is. After all, it's meant to be a new survivor. However if you are insane you could just suicide and loot your body with a fresh character.

What do you guys think? Feel free to add some ideas if you like the idea.

TL;DR. Read it

Edited July 1, 2013 by JoeM

[novogeek 253]

Pretty cool idea ... the only problem I see is the "being alone" thing ... you would have to solve the KOS issue first. I don't KOS, but I also prefer to play on my own as I am sure many other people do ... so that is the only gripe I would have with this suggestion.

[JoeM (DayZ) 41]

Pretty cool idea ... the only problem I see is the "being alone" thing ... you would have to solve the KOS issue first. I don't KOS, but I also prefer to play on my own as I am sure many other people do ... so that is the only gripe I would have with this suggestion.

But I thought Rocket wanted to promote teaming up. I do agree that it shouldn't exclude the Lone Wolf player entirely. I would like it to be at the stage that if you are a lone wolf and don't kill (too) many people and stay well fed/watered/clean keeping short hair and short beard (finally we can use razors) then you should be fine, but it will be more difficult.

Edited July 1, 2013 by JoeM

[geogeorgegeo@hotmail.co.uk 50]

I really dislike this idea. It works in Don't Starve because that is quite a fun whimsical, unreal game. If you heard gun shots that are not there because you are 'insane' (an arbitrary status that actually doesn't make any realistic sense), it would be messing with the gameplay far too much; hearing is probably just as important as sight in DayZ. + many of the other suggestions just make it very far fetched.

[elf cakes 559]

damn this is a great idea. it would really reduce the KoS aswell because people would need to stick together. however it might take it too far and make it too difficult to be a bandit. it's such a balancing act that it's difficult to say if it would implement well or not, but i really like the idea.

[JoeM (DayZ) 41]

damn this is a great idea. it would really reduce the KoS aswell because people would need to stick together. however it might take it too far and make it too difficult to be a bandit. it's such a balancing act that it's difficult to say if it would implement well or not, but i really like the idea.

But human interaction should be a great beneficial factor. So if you want to bandit, that is fine. But bandit in a group so the interaction you get from your group can counteract the negative side of killing.

[WBK 176]

Excellent post. I haven't read it all but I will soon. On the note of Lone Wolfing - as I am such a player - I think perhaps that short-term, your sanity would go down, which I think is fair. After a while, you get used to being alone, and perhaps being alone after 3 to 7 days for example, you actually gain sanity from being alone. Obviously IRL, it would take a lot longer to cope with being alone, maybe not at all, but we can't work with a realistic large scale time frame. This will encourage player interaction (by increasing sanity at start game by being around friendly people), without harming the lone wolf style of play. If you find a group though, your sanity reduces to neutral if you hang out with them, to 'adjust' to being in a community again, before rising back up.

You'll know I've finished your post when I give you beans ;)

Edited July 1, 2013 by WBK

[JoeM (DayZ) 41]

I really dislike this idea. It works in Don't Starve because that is quite a fun whimsical, unreal game. If you heard gun shots that are not there because you are 'insane' (an arbitrary status that actually doesn't make any realistic sense), it would be messing with the gameplay far too much; hearing is probably just as important as sight in DayZ. + many of the other suggestions just make it very far fetched.

That's kind of the idea. If you want to kill someone you have to risk the lowered sanity, so you will no longer shoot that poor guy with a makarov when you are fully geared unless he is a direct threat. And I think hearing/seeing things that aren't there would actually be quite exciting.

[JoeM (DayZ) 41]

Excellent post. I haven't read it all but I will soon. On the note of Lone Wolfing - as I am such a player - I think perhaps that short-term, your sanity would go down, which I think is fair. After a while, you get used to being alone, and perhaps being alone after 3 to 7 days for example, you actually gain sanity from being alone. Obviously IRL, it would take a lot longer to cope with being alone, maybe not at all, but we can't work with a realistic large scale time frame. This will encourage player interaction (by increasing sanity at start game by being around friendly people), without harming the lone wolf style of play. If you find a group though, your sanity reduces to neutral if you hang out with them, to 'adjust' to being in a community again, before rising back up.

You'll know I've finished your post when I give you beans ;)

I will try to make this clear now. I am do not want to make the game unplayable for lone wolf players. If you can keep yourself clean with plenty of food and water you will be fine. However if you are constantly hungry/thirsty with hair down to your knees and beard a you can use as a turban then you will see drastic negative effects. But if you look after yourself keep on lone wolfing!

[WBK 176]

If you can keep yourself clean with plenty of food and water you will be fine.

Might as well not have lone wolfing as a sanity detractor then...

Alright, so here's my full appraisal! I'm really torn as to whether I want this in the game. I like this more than 'humanity', but I'm not sure if humanity needs replacing or removing. Let's assume I want this in the game, review it all, then decide if I still want it.

I think all the actions for lowering sanity are about right. As mentioned above, I like my own idea :D for sanity on lone wolf players. I don't think removing it would be good because the way I interpreted it makes sense for player interaction and lone wolves. Killing people is a good one also, obviously if you kill someone it's going to come back and haunt you eventually. And washing/grooming makes sense, although I hope you don't have to keep your hair short, I do want a dude with some huge ponytail and beard at some point.

The ideas for gaining sanity look alright too, although it's a bit too similar to humanity. I'm pretty sure they're kind of the only actions you could actually use to implement sanity, so not really sure here.

The ideas for actually losing your mind are flat out cool. I don't want the visual effects - too much FPS usage, too much distraction, and everyone would just disable post-process as a lot already do - but the sound effects would be so wicked. I've wanted to hear voices in my head in DayZ for a long time! Random gunshots, random voices, bushes moving. That would make this game so scary again, especially at night! I'm pumped just thinking about it....

If it was implemented, I don't think that having a lower sanity rating should influence how often the effects take place. I think it should just be a measure of how severe they are.

All in all, I'm a bit iffy about sanity. It makes more sense than humanity, but as NoFace said, something like this is quite arbitrary and influences player behaviour artificially. I think we should drop these psycho-systems that affect social behaviour altogether. It's the sort of thing that seems great at the time, but people only really look at the positive effects it will have on gameplay, not negative. I really would love to hear voices and gunshots in DayZ though, find a new way to implement those and I'll give you all my beans!!

[JoeM (DayZ) 41]

...

Fine! You can have your ponytail! I will rephrase and say your hair has to be tidy, not getting in your face and in the way of things and generally being an annoyance. And you can have a beard as long as again, it is tidy and isn't host to wildlife, I don't want to see bird's nests in people's beards.

It is similar to humanity, but that is because it is a possible replacement to something that makes a little more sense than killing a few people and your player saying 'Better wear these bandit clothes now!'.

Maybe the visual effects would be a bit too far, I don't know. But if the engine can handle it then why not?

The noises should not be too common though. I want it so that every time you hear a gun shot you have to think about it instead of it being a methodical every 5 minutes again where you are left thinking that it is nothing again. I think you should hear things maybe on average once per 90 minutes. Enough to get in the way but not too often that you know when it's coming.

And if you want to hear gunshots and voices just run through Cherno :lol:!

[WBK 176]

It is similar to humanity, but that is because it is a possible replacement to something that makes a little more sense than killing a few people and your player saying 'Better wear these bandit clothes now!'

Yeah. Your idea is pretty good, and if we have to have a psycho-social system in place, then I definitely think something like this is the way to go. But I just don't like these kind of playstyle influencers, so I'm actually going to say no. This isn't a negative post though, as I said great idea, but I just don't like the whole concept of artificial systems.

[JoeM (DayZ) 41]

Yeah. Your idea is pretty good, and if we have to have a psycho-social system in place, then I definitely think something like this is the way to go. But I just don't like these kind of playstyle influencers, so I'm actually going to say no. This isn't a negative post though, as I said great idea, but I just don't like the whole concept of artificial systems.

To be honest I don't quite understand what you are trying to say with it being a play style influencer? Could you perhaps go to more detail?

[WBK 176]

This is what I think of the humanity system.

[JoeM (DayZ) 41]

This is what I think of the humanity system.

Ok I understand what you mean about the influence, either to be a hero or bandit but the sanity system will be different. It will be almost as fundamental as thirst or hunger. Nobody will want to be insane because the effects will make the game possibly very hard, just like nobody wants to be thirsty or hungry. It will only influence people to stay away from being insane, the same as food and drink.

[TheDesigner 1197]

Pretty cool idea ... the only problem I see is the "being alone" thing ... you would have to solve the KOS issue first. I don't KOS, but I also prefer to play on my own as I am sure many other people do ... so that is the only gripe I would have with this suggestion.

In a situation like this, being alone means death. You'd also have no human interaction, so you would probably start to go crazy. You can't live alone in a zombie apocalypse and not go insane.

Yeah. Your idea is pretty good, and if we have to have a psycho-social system in place, then I definitely think something like this is the way to go. But I just don't like these kind of playstyle influencers, so I'm actually going to say no. This isn't a negative post though, as I said great idea, but I just don't like the whole concept of artificial systems.

It's not artificial, it simulates real life punishments for choosing to do certain things.

Edited July 1, 2013 by TheDesigner

[mick17 93]

I think sanity should be derived by the person playing the character... if that person is insane in real life they're playstyle and character will be insane, and vice-versa.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I think sanity should be derived by the person playing the character... if that person is insane in real life they're playstyle and character will be insane, and vice-versa.

Lol

Your comment made me imagine a bunch of insane psychopaths in prisons across the world being allowed to play DayZ.

The next time you see Charles Manson in game just remember it could actually be him.

Edited July 2, 2013 by DemonGroover

[Quobble (DayZ) 2]

Actually a very nice idea. Not sure if the server or the engine can safe video material....and i really dont want to ruin the lone wolf game style.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

I searched for it and nothing came up.

What did you search for? I typed the word 'sanity' into the search bar and got a full page of suggestion topics.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=search&section=search&do=search&fromsearch=1

Anyways, I think that the human brain is far too complex to model in a video game now, and everyone will react differently to a certain situation.

There's also really no way to tell how people would actually react in a zombie apocalypse, as there is no research to base it on.

[EndEffeKt 87]

The whole Sanity-concept does remind me of Call of Khutulu or Arhcam Horror :) I like it.

[JoeM (DayZ) 41]

...

Hmm I must have may have mis-typed it in the search, oops.

I know that there is little way we can know how the mind will react in that situation but that just gives some room for us to make it up a little, as long as it isn't too ridiculous.

And to everyone saying that everyone is different so will have different mental limits then how come if everyone is different everyone spawns in the same anyway? Surely it can just be the same with sanity as well, you don't get people spawning in overweight or bodybuilder style.

[terrvik 2409]

Thing is that I would like every mistake to be my own, not my characters. There are times when I have played (especially in the beginning when everything was new) where I have imagined seeing things at night or thought I heard gunfire just because I was so immersed in the game. That was scary! If mechanics were to be implemented to scare me it would probably cease to be scary at all.

If the game itself does a well enough job to keep tension up I will be less accurate or make stressed mistakes all by myself fueled by adrenaline. :)