Suicide in DayZ and why it's important

[TheMachine 803]

I personally think the 'lock-out' versus 'suicide' choice is a horrible thing to put in the game. And if anything the player should be locked out FOR suiciding. I think about it this way: If you die legitimately, the game has taught you a lesson, and you are richer for the experience. You should be rewarded with the ability to immediately apply what you've learned to your next gaming experience (not being locked out, so you can only apply the lesson 24 hours later) and if you suicide you are circumventing the learning aspect of the game and should be punished for taking the easy way out.

Even though situations like running around dying to hunger are horribly drawn out and very taxing on the player (not being able to see properly etc) it still creates the desperation, the panic, that DayZ is famous for. Searching through towns ravenously for a single can of food, risking zombies and players alike so you don't die, is important. If the player can go "woops, got caught out in the wilderness with no food, and no knife. better suicide..." then that's cheap.

Once again, having any kind of lock out mechanism is terrible. But if there WAS one, I would hope it would work in the opposite way to what was originally suggested.

There'd be no point punishing someone for suiciding, it's the easy way out.

The point of the lockout would be to force people to make the hard choice, fight on, or take the easy way out to avoid the lockout?

It'd add a whole new dynamic to the game when your enemies are so scared of you they cap their own ass.

[dayz standalone 33]

I think there should be a timer for all those combat loggers out there, make those scum wait 24 hours to play again.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

I think there should be a timer for all those combat loggers out there, make those scum wait 24 hours to play again.

Your character will most likely remain in the world for a period of time even if logged off, making him/her vulnerable to attack and death.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Dreygar

[OEM (DayZ) 8]

There'd be no point punishing someone for suiciding, it's the easy way out.

The point of the lockout would be to force people to make the hard choice, fight on, or take the easy way out to avoid the lockout?

It'd add a whole new dynamic to the game when your enemies are so scared of you they cap their own ass.

Fighting on should be encouraged... Why would you want to punish someone who decided to fight against the odds to preserve their character? If you take the easy way out, then you should be punished for going against the spirit of the game, not only for yourself, but for other people who're trying to kill you. You're robbing them of their victory. Suiciding shouldn't be an option at all. At the end of the day, any situation you find yourself in that might lead to your death is a lesson, and lessons should not be skipped, they should be suffered through. I can't see any logical reason for allowing the suicide option at all under any circumstance.

Edit: barring bugs where you get stuck in the ground in a place where you can't die, and things like that ofc.

Edited July 1, 2013 by OEM

[broguenz 333]

So being a coward and killing yourself gives you no punishment, but going down fighting kicks you for ten minutes? I don't get it...

Agree

If anything it should be the other way around.

But a timer at all would be pretty poo really (unless you had a few private servers to jump around to keep you occupied).

[Death_Dealer 3155]

I think there should be a timer for all those combat loggers out there, make those scum wait 24 hours to play again.

What if your internet cuts out when you're in combat? It's happened to me quite a bit. You'd have to wait a whole day just to play again...

Death timers are pointless. They don't add any immersion; just makes you wait longer to play the game you love which is very frustrating.

[EndEffeKt 87]

I really dont think that death-timers are doing the game any good.

On the other hand I like the idea of beeing able to suicide yourself with a handgun, only for the sake of roleplay.

[dulix11 731]

I thought rocket already confirmed suicide in the SA?

You select a loaded weapon and choose 'Commit suicide' and then a message appears saying 'Are you sure?' > Yes *splat*...

[WBK 176]

I don't like this idea of suicide. If the lockout/suicide combo was implemented, everyone would suicide because there's an objective gain in doing so. I don't like the idea of lockout either in this scenario. I think lockout is a good idea. But this is just punishment/reward for its own sake, as opposed to adding any immersion in the game. I do eventually want to see suicide in the game, but it should be inserted in a way which is more realistic. All I see it as in this case is a time saver and a reward for people taking the easy way out.

What if your internet cuts out when you're in combat? It's happened to me quite a bit. You'd have to wait a whole day just to play again...

Death timers are pointless. They don't add any immersion; just makes you wait longer to play the game you love which is very frustrating.

Cut outs are extremely frustrating. Although I did end up on the winning side of it once: I was running in the forest just north of Cherno, after I'd sniped a guy on top of the industrial buildings. I saw another guy, tried to run past him without getting seen. He saw me though, so I ran into a pine tree, where I hoped for the best. Then my PC shutdown because of a blackout, I logged back in 10 minutes later to the sound of him shooting me, but apparently I couldn't die yet, and as he was reloading I just killed him. I told him "unlucky buddy, that's why you don't shoot at strangers".

On point though, I think lockouts do have a use. Yes I want to be able to play all the time, and so does everyone else. But you learn to value your life more the less you play. If I die on a good character and I'm bored, I'll just play for an hour, dying 4 or 5 times just waiting for a good spawn sometimes. I'd be better off if I was forced not to play for a short while. Valuing life is the biggest goal I think players and devs alike should be aiming for.

[OrLoK 16188]

Hello there

This is the old issue of what does one *really* loose when one dies? And what are the consequences.

It's a difficult one and many have opposing views.

It's also difficult to envisage any real solution for the SA as we dont know fully what mechanics are in place other than a general overview. SO one mechanic that works with the mod might be rendered useless with the SA.

Regardless, the initial point of roguelikes / perma death is that almost every choice and decision takes forethought as making the *wrong* choice results in unfortunate events for the user.

For me, this is what's missing from many servers. In game I'm not scared of a user with a revolver and 3 rounds but in real life I would be.

If I lose an AK, Im not fussed, I know I can go to a certain spawn and most likely avoid people and get another AK or similar which will enable me to kill and loot another player. Then "pop" I'm kitted fully out again.

We need to find a way to make it a hard decision whether to enter into combat or trips to the airfield more than a shopping trip. This means that the effort one puts in to get kitted out becomes important to one and not something to quickly fritter away.

The *cooldown* lockout timer IMHO is a flawed idea although it is regularly suggested.

I liked Dreygar's idea of losing *knowledge* but dont think its an entire solution on it own.

Player life value is really tricky as this is neither a "shooter" nor a fully fledged "MMO" but sits oddly between the two.

If someone can come up with a foolproof solution to this you could make a few quid out of it.

Rgds

LoK

[SteveLord 32]

Nobody is going to play a game that penalizes you like that.

[jubeidok 495]

I don't get the issue so many have with giving the player the freedom of choice. Especially since the only reason seems to be that they wouldn't want to lose out on a precious kill. Are you really that angry at the world? I would choose to look at it as, I made that guy kill himself. Cool, saved some ammo. It would please me, would probably chuckle every time it happened. Look, most people are pussies. Let them be pussies while you take pride in knowing you don't take the pussy way out of a situation. Stat tracking could be used here, so you can go online and see who all the pussies are or just how many of them there are.

"Them be lookin' like zombie numbers!"

OK. Although we can never seem to have enough, enough about pussy. On to the next matter, a lockout timer upon death. First off, like others have said, no way should suicide ever be rewarded over a clean death. Choosing to fight is the choice that should net you the instant respawn. As for the timer itself, the only way I could agree with this is if it were simply for that server. That way you could go on starting a new life on a new server, no pre-knowledge of the world around you, making it feel like more of a fresh start I guess. The problem with this though, is that now a player can start on their progress back to that spot on a new server with the timer likely to be expired by the time they get there and they can now rejoin back by their body(possibly). Now that I've said that, I guess I'm not really a fan of that idea either. You can't erase the knowledge that the player has so no matter what, there will always be people who try to get back to their bodies. I've done it plenty of times. A slip up I wasn't willing to except, a spawn that doesn't deter and a death in a spot/way that people aren't likely to stumble upon. It's hard to resist. I think this is something we have to accept, and if we're not willing to, take matters into your own hands. I for one, will often bury a body when I find one, with the exception being bandits. I don't bury bandits as I want people to stumble upon them and learn their names.

How can we make people care about their lives more? Well, I think they already care too much. Just look at the trends. What other shooter have you ever played where people disconnect to avoid death?

"Had this wicked round of BF3, maaaan. I went 32-2. It was freakin' insane, and I only disconnected 37 times!"

So why don't people care if they die 37 times in a round of BF3, but make such a fuss if they die once in a session of DayZ? I think the game is doing a fine job with making you care. Since when have we ever said no to more though, so what can we do to make people care even more? I was thinking something like mementos could be cool. This would be either something you find or something you spawn with, open for discussion. Think of some generic type props that you can bind to a player. Like a ring, a photo, a pendant or a rock that is just totally neato! This is something you don't want to lose, it reminds you of a past love or a time when everything was great. Players would be able to add an inscription or note. I guess it's really only something that would appeal to role players and such, as it is kind of just placebo. Your head has to do all the real work to make it something of worth. Though, I suppose they could serve as trophies for all those player hunters out there, more incentive to go check the body.

[SteveLord 32]

^ Because in BF3, you can die 37 times in the same amount of time it takes to die once in DayZ and get back to the place where you died. :P

[plexico 386]

It'd FORCE people to decide if they were going to be cowards and go out with a bullet in the head by their own gun or risk a 10 minute block by fighting, it's called an incentive.

You can bet your bottom dollar, lots of people would suicide.

In real life I wouldn't kill myself. Fuck, I'm gonna die anyway, maybe I can at least take one of them down with me.

In DayZ I would especially do this, because whats the fun in shooting yourself? Forcing me to abandon game play and kill myself or else I will face a punishment is just silly.

And you have to think about all the kids that will just kill themselves to piss you off. They know there gonna die, they know you want to kill them, and instead they hide themselves and kill themselves.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Plexico

[thelonewarrior 886]

Really why are you so bothered?

It can be done with a grenade

You can jump off buildings

Deliberately get hit and bleed and wait for death

It's just a quicker and much cooler way to die

I have pressed respawn when I've had broken legs from a zombie in the middle of no where before, are you telling me this has never happened to you before?

Now imagine respawn wasn't avaliable, now you have to spend 1-2 hours crawling for a zombie to kill you, which lets face it, unless your lost in the woods at night, have no friends to save you and have top end gear, even the you might consider suicide to start again

Even now people just run to the coast, suicide and come back, so what exactly is the problem with expanding on what people do anyway

[OEM (DayZ) 8]

Really why are you so bothered?

I have pressed respawn when I've had broken legs from a zombie in the middle of no where before, are you telling me this has never happened to you before?

And I bet, before you hit respawn, you wished you had morphine on you... Therefore the game taught you the value of morphine and you're (probably) going to change the way you play from now on. Now imagine if you couldn't have hit respawn, and you had to crawl all the way to the nearest zombie to put you out of your misery, imagine how much MORE you'd value that morphine. I bet you wouldn't skip over morphine as if it were trash loot while you're looking for anti-bio... DayZ is about learning how to minimise risk, and having morphine minimises the risk of having to crawl for an hour to repair your legs....

Even now people just run to the coast, suicide and come back, so what exactly is the problem with expanding on what people do anyway

Expanding on that has many impacts to the game, and all of them essentially undermine the point of DayZ. If people are suiciding on the coast frequently then that's their prerogative, but DayZ certainly shouldn't facilitate that behaviour.

[Blippy 26]

You know what else had a lockout timer? The WarZ Infestation: Survivor Stories. You know what people did? Deleted their character and just made a new one.

[SteveLord 32]

You know what else had a lockout timer? The WarZ Infestation: Survivor Stories. You know what people did? Deleted their character and just made a new one.

Because that game is a shining example of quality.....

[applejaxc 2500]

That really overglorifies suicide. "Don't worry, if I shoot myself things won't be so bad!"

[Odrama Vin Laden 18]

It'd add a whole new dynamic to the game when your enemies are so scared of you they cap their own ass.

You're wrong, they aren't scared of you, they are scared of the 10 minute lockout they would get for playing right. A gun fight would never end with one killing another anymore, everyone would just suicide. There is NO realism in that.