Third person idea

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

I like the idea of being able to see nothing but the terrain when using 3rd person and trying to look at somewhere where your char would not really be able to look at/see.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

It's just a replacement for the combination of your real-world senses. You CAN make yourself aware of your surroundings with just FPV-freelook, but the 3dp "substitute sense" makes it quicker and more true to life.

(apart form the ability to see round corners, of course)

You can tell the difference between a cat and a cabbage by touch alone, but it would be quicker to look/smell/listen.

[geogeorgegeo@hotmail.co.uk 50]

The idea of something being within your FoV yet invisible just doesn't sit well with me. I'd rather 3DP was removed completely than that.

And so would a lot of us but some of us are willing for a compromise because many people still want to be able to see their positioning and to drive cars in third person but without the clearly unfair wallhack of being able to see someone on the other side of a wall without them seeing you (and vice versa, so that other people can't see where you are without you even having a chance of seeing them).

You can tell the difference between a cat and a cabbage by touch alone, but it would be quicker to look/smell/listen.

Them cabbages always waking me up in the middle of the night with them loud noises! Arh!!

Edited June 24, 2013 by Noface

[fluxley 2228]

It's just a replacement for the combination of your real-world senses. You CAN make yourself aware of your surroundings with just FPV-freelook, but the 3dp "substitute sense" makes it quicker and more true to life.

(apart form the ability to see round corners, of course)

You can tell the difference between a cat and a cabbage by touch alone, but it would be quicker to look/smell/listen.

I totally get that, but third person is way too overpowered. the OP's suggestion isn't a bad compromise, but i personally wouldn't use it as having objects appear and vanish as i move my head would just feel wrong, its even more of an immersion breaker than the existing system. and it seems fairly pointless to me at least.

I really think they could do a lot to improve first person that would make up for the lack of senses.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I keep getting D/C before I can reply.

I agree that FPV should be improved upon first and foremost. It's a bit of carrot/stick.

The way I see it, the ability to see other players/zeds/items isn't necessary for 3dp to be useful as a spacial awareness tool (which I assume was the original intention) and only leads to exploits.

I don't see it as an unfair advantage if it's available to everyone, but the current system kind of spoils the experience when it comes to hiding from and hunting players.

I'd rather have 3dp as "Concentrate on nothing but yourself. See nothing but your character"-mode. And have the rest of the game play as an FPS, with all the cool ArmA leaning/stances/freelook etc..

[enforcer1975 1111]

Third person is there for a reason.

Then tell me why does almost any shooter, actually every major shooter come without 3P and why should ArmA be with 3P when they have the same limited fov ( excl. those console games where it is cool to see your own ass ) ??? FOV can be altered in every game even in ArmA...you can google it, you can not miss it. Edited June 24, 2013 by Enforcer

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

people go on about 3p being there because of Armas limited FOV but 99% of other FPS seem to manage perfectly fine, plus Arma has the awesome free look feature which 99% of FPS don't have. Free look effectively extends FOV in all directions.

OP's original idea is magnificent because it allows those who want to 'look at their character' to do so without rewarding this bizarre desire with ESP exploits.

My friends and I agree this is by far the best suggestion we have seen that deals with this contentious issue and if I could afford it I would buy the Heinz company and send every single can of baked beans they have to this mans door, each can of beans lovingly carried by a beautiful, sexually frustrated 21 year old blonde princess wearing lingerie made from fifty pound notes.

Edited June 24, 2013 by (MUC) Feral

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Let's face it, people do like being able to see their character AND the ability of peeking over walls and around corners without being seen. It doesn't really matter what you do to the first person view, with the freelook feature the first person view in ARMA is already more useful than in most 1st person games, there would still be major uproar if 3rd person was "nerfed" in any way. Honestly, I don't believe anything will ever be done about it. I think rocket was interested in finding a solution but gave up on it. And if it's not in alpha, it's already too late. It's a shame because firefights are one of the most awesome things about arma and 3rd person makes them lame and cheap.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

if it's not in alpha, it's already too late.

That's about as far from logic as it's possible to get.

It's an alpha. Nothing is set in stone. Most of the content due to eventually be added or changed hasn't even been imagined yet.

After SA releases is exactly the time to start fucking about with stuff, to see what works and what doesn't.

Sure, folks will kick up a fuss, but that's not really all that important in the long run. The main thing is to make the game as good as it can possibly be.

If that means forcefully gutting 3dp to improve gunplay or immersion, so be it.

As I understand it, the current plan is to keep it admin's-choice. That doesn't mean it's always going to be like that.

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

there would still be major uproar if 3rd person was "nerfed"

I believe you are correct, especially if 3P was removed altogether, however, if the OP's suggestion was implemented then I'm pretty sure things would settle down once everyone got used to it, in fact I think the only people who'd be really distressed would be those who rely on it and exploit it to the disadvantage of other players. In my opinion anyone with that kind of attitude and approach to gameplay is welcome to shed as many tears as they like, I for one shall bathe in them.

Edited June 24, 2013 by (MUC) Feral

[enforcer1975 1111]

The offered suggestion is quite good but i don't think they can pull it off plus it add a possibility to "cheat the blocking feature away" although it might silence most players who are honest about only wanting to see their character ( where i doubt that most people are beeing honest about that ). If a game is good enough people will see that you don't need certain features in a game to make it more immersive. Like in every other shooter: It's more exciting not to know if an enemy will run around the corner any moment with his guns blazing hoping to hit someone than both opponents peeking around the corner in 3P at the same time trying to see what the other one is doing which is kind of awkward.

[harley001 315]

The idea of something being within your FoV yet invisible just doesn't sit well with me. I'd rather 3DP was removed completely than that.

If they do that then we need to have the FOX fixed. It gives me a headache...

Also the camera is too shakey in first person even when I disable the head bob and shizz. When you go for a walk/jog does your head bob up and down like that? (I actually just walked and ran around a bit to test. And it dosen't)

[enforcer1975 1111]

If they do that then we need to have the FOX fixed. It gives me a headache...

Also the camera is too shakey in first person even when I disable the head bob and shizz. When you go for a walk/jog does your head bob up and down like that? (I actually just walked and ran around a bit to test. And it dosen't)

FOV can be altered in every game even in ArmA...you can google it, you can not miss it.

If you actually set up your game instead of just playing instantly like a console player would do you would have found out that you can turn head bob off.... Edited June 25, 2013 by Enforcer

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

That's about as far from logic as it's possible to get.

It's an alpha. Nothing is set in stone. Most of the content due to eventually be added or changed hasn't even been imagined yet.

After SA releases is exactly the time to start fucking about with stuff, to see what works and what doesn't.

Sure, folks will kick up a fuss, but that's not really all that important in the long run. The main thing is to make the game as good as it can possibly be.

If that means forcefully gutting 3dp to improve gunplay or immersion, so be it.

As I understand it, the current plan is to keep it admin's-choice. That doesn't mean it's always going to be like that.

I don't believe something like 1st/3rd person is easily changed later. And I don't mean that from technical point of view. You just need to look at the mod and see what happens when people get used to it. If there never was 3rd person as an option, everyone would be fine with 1st person and the mod would have become just as popular. Imagine if next patch removes 3rd person however. We would be witnessing the greatest shitstorm so far and a lot of people WOULD stop playing.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

As a mod, the game wasn't fully required to make its own mark or have its own style. For a fully fledged title there's no more need to stand in the shadow of ArmA2.

No size of shitstorm is worth letting the quantity of gamers be more important than the quality of the game.

When Rocket, and other folks, have said "wait until after testing/release to see if DayZ is for you." it's taken as some kind of a joke. Really it's the most important thing to consider.

[enforcer1975 1111]

BIS ruined the game with 3P view, well the "game" wasn't actually a game in the fist place. It's based on VBS which is used for training purposes where 3P was a necessary part for demonstration purposes, they should have removed it when they released OFP over a decade ago especially with the PVP part in mind. They can still correct their mistake with ArmA 3 and Dayz and ignore the uproar. People will still buy the game if they like the quality of the content and not because "you can watch yourself while mastrubating".

Edited June 25, 2013 by Enforcer

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

It's an old debate, those who love 3rd person can't imagine the game without it, those who hate it have no choice but to use it because 99% of servers have it enabled and to not use it is to effectively fuck yourself. There are a few of us who don't use it but we die loads more, often killed by folks who spotted us using the witchcraft that is 3rd person. Those who choose to play this First Person Shooter in First Person mode are effectively punished for doing so lol. 3rd person ruins combat and makes a mockery of anyone who loves serious and realistic tactical play.

The only suggestion I've seen that comes close to keeping everyone happy is this one. it deserves to be seriously considered imho.

I honestly cannot understand why this issue hasn't been dealt with before and sincerely hope Rocket and co take a look at it for the SA. They have the opportunity to take a few risks with the alpha, this might just be a risk worth taking.

Edited June 26, 2013 by (MUC) Feral

[gibonez 3633]

Let's just remove it.

[dulix11 731]

The only reason I really like third person is because first person feels really rough and clunky. So when I'm travelling it really gives me a headache to watch. However, when I get myself into an argument with guns, I will always use 1st person for a more engaging, realistic experience. But then you get people who exploit it, and use it in firefights, creating an unfair advantage.

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

Keep third person, but stop it from being a wall hack.

[fluxley 2228]

Keep third person, but stop it from being a wall hack.

And improve 1st person :D

[joe_mcentire 2074]

i had an idea once.

What do you think of mirrors/periscope-esque devices as constraints for 3rd person? Really this is in my opinion the most authentic and of course most bestest compromise one can get. just think about it! why not? Earn your right to play in 3rd person by finding and utilizing mirrors. The use would let you look around corners/above walls behind your back. So by pressing "the mirror"-button you basically switch to 3rd person and back.

what do you think?

Edited June 26, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[fluxley 2228]

Then we have the bizarre situation of a mirror being one of the most OP items in the game.

The idea of having a mirror on a stick that you actually poke around a wall whilst staying in 1st person view is pretty cool, but i really dont like the idea of having the huge advantage of being able swap to 3rd person just because i have a certain item in my inventory.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Then we have the bizarre situation of a mirror being one of the most OP items in the game.

The idea of having a mirror on a stick that you actually poke around a wall whilst staying in 1st person view is pretty cool, but i really dont like the idea of having the huge advantage of being able swap to 3rd person just because i have a certain item in my inventory.

but why not? if you have that a sniper rifle you are in advantage, aren't you? so this only further distributes the dependency on items, like guns/meds/food/water....

edit: i really think they should bring ONE game mode. with 3rdp only or 1stp only or something in between (like my suggestion). They should take the risk.

Edited June 26, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[fluxley 2228]

Because gaining an advantage from a better weapons makes sense.

Suddenly having the ability to disconnect from your body and view the world from an elevated position is just too far fetched and advantageous with no penalties.

They just aren't comparable.

Like i said having an actual mirror on a stick that you use in 1st person would be great, it would be awkward to use, give a limited view of whats on the other side and there would be the chance that the other player could spot it giving away your position.

Same with if they improve the variety of stances for the character model so that you could actually poke your head over and around walls without it being too obvious.